God Hates Censorship!

"God hates the queen Mary's College, the fag-infested U.K., England, and all having to do with spreading sodomite lies via The Laramie Project, this tacky bit of cheap fag propaganda masquerading as legitimate theater." Thus spake the Reverend Fred Phelps of Topeka, Kan., a man far more famous than he deserves to be. Founder of the Westboro Baptist Church, the bigot preacher's condemnations of homosexuality are so outrageous - and have become the subject of such abundant coverage by the media - that the man has become a punch line.

At least once a day, transmissions from the Westboro Baptist Church pour forth from the fax machine near my desk at The New Republic - all of them declaring God's hate for some municipality or institution due to its not taking the same zero-tolerance position on "faggotry" as the Reverend Fred. As I presume the case is elsewhere in Washington (Phelps claims to fax every U.S. congressman and senator, the White House, and many major media organizations on a daily basis), these missives are deposited directly into the trash or, as in my office, taped to a door for the general bemusement of one's coworkers.

Marginal and mad as Phelps and his followers may be, however, many see the Westboro Baptist Church as a growing and actual threat to democratic society, rather than a bizarre coven of traveling performance artists. Those who have given Phelps such undue attention have tended to be either opportunistic journalists looking for a good story or gay groups trying to scare the bejesus out of donors; in other words, they've had understandable, if not exactly justifiable, reasons for obsessing over this silly man. But now an authority no less prestigious than the government of the United Kingdom joins those who are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Earlier this year Phelps, along with his shrew of a daughter Shirley, announced plans to protest a production of The Laramie Project at Queen Mary's College in Basingstoke, a town about 50 miles outside of London. The play, which has become a required performance in the drama department of practically every right-thinking liberal high school and university in the United States, tells the story of Matthew Shepard from the perspective of dozens of people involved in his life and untimely death. Phelps, his daughter, and whatever followers they could muster were planning to stand outside the production space with their well-worn neon poster-board signs, which depict stick figures in all manner of compromising, sodomitic positions, while shouting "God hates fags!"

"Both these individuals have engaged in unacceptable behavior by inciting hatred against a number of communities," an official with the U.K. Border Agency said in an attempt to justify the decision to bar the Phelpses from entering the country. "The government has made it clear it opposes extremism in all its forms." Never mind the speciousness of this claim (the U.K. government has not been nearly as discriminating in its treatment of foreign radical Muslim preachers, many of whom have ties to terrorist organizations and have called on their British coreligionists to wage jihad against the British state). Are governments justified in banning or otherwise hindering the speech of individuals who "incite hatred" of minority groups, and if so, should gays be cheering this particular decision?

On its face, barring the likes of Fred Phelps and those who engage in such rhetorical brutality seems like a simple, catchall solution to an obnoxious problem. There's no question that Phelps is a hatemonger whose most flamboyant words might be construed as a call to violence. And given Europe's history with fascism and popular susceptibility to demagogues, one can understand how the British government would be particularly sensitive about a seeming crossbreed of Adolf Hitler and Elmer Gantry setting foot on English soil so as to shout bigoted insults about a once-oppressed minority group.

Ultimately, however, punishing Phelps for what he says is not just wrongheaded but self-defeating. One of the most fundamental aspects of a free society is freedom of speech. And that freedom extends to everyone, even the most pernicious. It means freedom for nasty, evil men like Phelps.

The decision to bar Phelps is counterproductive as it bestows far too much credit on the man's persuasive capacities. In explaining the rule under which his entry was barred - a nebulous law that prohibits the incitement of religious and/or racial "hatred" - the British government stated, "The exclusions policy is targeted at all those who seek to stir up tension and provoke others to violence, regardless of their origins and beliefs." Like most regulations aimed at suppressing hate speech, the British law is useless, and the Phelps imbroglio demonstrates its ultimate futility.

It's naive to think that everyday heterosexual British citizens with ambivalent views about homosexuality would, by dint of hearing the words of Fred Phelps, not only transform into raging homophobes but acquire a hatred of gays so intense that it would compel them to commit violence against the first homosexual to cross their paths. Moreover, treating Phelps as a genuine security threat along the lines of a terrorist gives him the attention he so desperately seeks. Perhaps if Phelps's congregation were not made up largely of his immediate family, he would be worth worrying about. But Phelps makes a living by seeking publicity, and by turning him into a martyr for free speech, the British government has unwittingly connected him with a cause he only besmirches.

Banning the speech of those with whom we disagree, even those who lie about us and condemn us to hell, betrays a fundamental principle of the gay rights movement: the notion that individuals should be free to live as they like provided their actions do not impinge on the freedom of others. Freedom is an expansive concept, including not just the right to love a consenting adult of the same gender but the right to speak and write what one believes. Phelps's words may be hateful, and many gay people undoubtedly take offense at what he has to say, but in a free society, nobody has the right to not be offended.

Indeed, the gay rights movement would not be where it is today were it not for freedom of speech. It wasn't so long ago that gay people could not meet at a bar without fear that the police would raid the premises, assault the patrons, and cart them off to jail in paddy wagons while carefully tipped-off news photographers documented the scene for the next day's front page. Early gay publications were confiscated in the mail and their publishers were prosecuted for distributing "obscene material." Gay rights pioneers cited the freedoms elucidated in America's founding documents to defend their right to peacefully assemble, protest, and express their views, often facing fierce resistance from the government and society at large.

But ultimately, gay people prevailed. Allowed to speak freely and honestly, they have effectively made their case, and today the majority of Americans support some form of legal recognition for gay couples, the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," and the right of gays to adopt children. And while many Americans - perhaps most - still view homosexuality as immoral, they are increasingly repelled by the rhetoric of the Fred Phelpses of this world. The culture is now overwhelmingly supportive of gay equality, and it's those who would hold us back who are on the rhetorical defensive. The case for gay rights has proven itself resilient over the past half century and has gained strength with time. It does not require the shuttering of opposing views - no matter how malicious, misleading, or unfair - to win the day, which it eventually will.

The Reverend Phelps may think we're going to hell. Let him say it until he's blue in the face.

Rick Warren’s Recurring Non Sequitur

Steven Waldman has another defense of Pastor Rick Warren up at Beliefnet. He does the best he can, but this paragraph struck me as discordant

Having not learned my lesson, I want to close with another defense of Rick Warren. Despite his lack of self awareness on gay marriage (and the pain he's caused gays), I still think that he deserves to great credit for his extraordinary work in fighting poverty and disease in Africa. This man is saving thousands of lives and we should keep looking at the full Rick Warren.

But how much longer will we continue to allow people to get away with this kind of non sequitur? Rick Warren's dedication to fighting poverty and disease in Africa is not related to, nor a defense of his public pronouncements (and those significant silences) on gay equality.

Vermont

Everybody's probably got the news that Vermont became the first state to adopt same-sex marriage through the legislative process. For those keeping track, California's legislature passed it twice, but our Governor vetoed the bills. Interestingly, so did Vermont's governor, but their legislature overrode the veto. Way to go!

This is remarkable for all the obvious reasons: it was passed by the people's repesentatives, by a wide margin, and without being under court compulsion. I am simply amazed.

But I'm also a bit peeved. I'd hoped California would be the first to do this. Now, the only landmark left for us is to be the first state to have the voters, themselves, adopt same-sex marriage directly. This is going to be a challenge, but we Calfornians are up to it!

Two Awards for Gavin Newsom

The National Gay & Lesbian Task Force bestowed a Leadership Award to San Francisco's Mayor Gavin Newsom on April 6, calling him "a galvanizing force for marriage equality."

Meanwhile, the creator of a highly effective anti-gay marriage ad on behalf of California's Prop. 8, using a news clip featuring Gavin Newsom, won a very different award, from the American Association of Political Consultants. As the San Francisco Chronicle reports:

[Frank Schubert] was happy to give the political pros from across the country a 45-minute seminar on his victorious campaign, where he was asked: "How did you come from 14 points behind in the polls and win?"

Well, Schubert explained, they were very disciplined, they had tremendous support from the faith community and they had "a gift from God: Gavin Newsom."

Whereupon Schubert showed the same-sex-marrying San Francisco mayor delivering his infamous "it's gonna happen, whether you like it or not" line that became the anchor for Schubert's TV campaign.

The place exploded in laughter.

Like many on the left, Newsom gets credit for standing up for marriage equality, but he did so in a way that spoke to the gay community and our supporters, while letting opponents of same-sex marriage know just what he thought of them. That didn't work out so well in the end, did it. But it's the mindset of today's progressive activism, which directs its energy inward on group affirmation rather than outward on constructive engagement with those who see the world through a very different lens.

No More Mr. Nice Gay?

Readers of this column occasionally complain that I'm too nice to our enemies. They may have a point.

I'm an easygoing person by nature. It's not a deliberate strategy; it's just who I am. Usually the trait serves me well, though there are times I wish I had a reputation as more of an asshole. People generally steer clear of assholes, for fear of provoking them, and intimidation has its uses.

Even though my being "Mr. Nice Guy" wasn't chosen for strategic purposes, I try to work it to my advantage. It gives me influence with a certain group of people. And it's shaped my career as a gay-rights advocate, one who aims for thoughtful engagement with the other side.

Such engagement can be productive. For one thing, the more our opponents know us personally, the harder it is for them to demonize us. (Not impossible, obviously, but harder.) Part of my life's mission is to create cognitive dissonance for those who would label all gays as angry deviants.

But engagement is also important because, like it or not, our opponents still capture majorities in most states. I don't doubt that the tide is shifting strongly in our favor, but we've got a lot of work to do. One effective way to reach the movable middle is to take opponents' concerns seriously.

I say "one effective way," not "the only effective way." There's a place for militant activism. And I'm not just saying that because I like getting along with people-militant activists included. I really believe it.

There's a character type in the GLBT community that we might refer to as the Angry Queers. (It's a caricature, to be sure, but like any good caricature it captures something important.) They're angry, and they want everyone to know it.

They're angry at our opponents. They're angry at me for civilly engaging those opponents. They're angry at the schools who host our debates, for giving the opposition a platform, as well as for not providing (take your pick): (a) free parking; (b) accessible seating; (c) more Q&A time; (d) universal health care.

They're angry at the world generally, and they're going to let everyone know it.

There are times when I'm sincerely grateful for Angry Queers. They jolt us out of our complacency. They remind us that these issues can have life-or-death implications. Yes, they make us uncomfortable, but sometimes we should be uncomfortable.

So they have their role, and I have mine. Both have their uses.

It's tempting to cast the resulting alliance as a "Good Cop/Bad Cop" strategy. Tempting, but not so easy. For when it comes to moral issues, "Good Cop/Bad Cop" seems unstable-maybe even unsustainable.

In this debate, the Good Cop tells opponents, "You have reasonable concerns-just like the many other decent people who share your views. Let's hear those concerns so we can address them thoughtfully."

The Bad Cop tells opponents, "Your 'concerns' are prejudice, pure and simple. And the best way to stamp out prejudice is to make life as uncomfortable as possible for anyone who tries to express it. That's how society handles bigots: we don't accommodate them; we ostracize them."

Needless to say, these strategies are at cross purposes. One cannot simultaneous tell people that one wants to hear their concerns and also that they'd better shut up if they know what's good for them.

I don't pretend to have an easy answer to this dilemma. The debate is unlike, say, the health-care debate, where everyone agrees that healing the sick is a good thing, and the disagreement is over who pays for it and how.

The gay-rights debate is a debate about whether our deep romantic commitments are a good thing. It's about the nature of family, the authority of scripture, and other core moral issues. It cuts far deeper than "who pays for it and how?" (which, admittedly, has its own moral entanglements).

I agree with the Angry Queers that the other side is wrong-badly wrong, wrong in ways that profoundly harm innocent people. And I can understand their desire to marginalize anyone who doubts the moral value of our relationships. I get it. I get it strategically, and I get it personally.

But, for reasons both strategic and personal, I can't join their approach. So I keep doing my "Good Cop" thing, hoping for synergy in this unstable but necessary alliance.

More Dreher, Better Dreher

I will be interested to see how Damon Linker responds to Rod Dreher, whose post yesterday offers substantive, thoughtful and non-theological arguments against same-sex marriage. As a gay man who's worked on this issue for a quarter century now, I am fascinated to watch the debate move fully into the heterosexual world, since they are the 97% of voters who will be charged, in our democracy, with deciding the legal rules that will apply to lesbians and gay men.

I'd expressed concern that Dreher was avoiding the central issue of defending his position and focusing, instead, on peripheral issues and perceived slights and insults. But in this post, he gets to the heart of his case.

First, he is concerned that gay marriage is a sign of "autonomous individualism" which is antithetical to a tolerably decent and stable civilization. Second, he believes that same-sex marriage "tells a lie about human nature, and the nature and purpose of sex and sexuality," and that we should not teach our children that marriage means whatever we want it to mean. He also expresses concerns about encroachment on religious freedom, which Jon Rauch's proposed compromise would address, though Dreher does not seem aware that it has been offered. Finally he quotes at length from Jane Galt's libertarian essay about same-sex marriage, which seem to boil down to this: "By changing the explicitly gendered nature of marriage we might be accidentally cutting away something that turns out to be a crucial underpinning." Her point is not that same-sex marriage should be banned, but that we can't always imagine fully what the consequences of social change are -- a fair statement.

These are arguments that can be addressed without resort to the Bible, and for that I'm grateful. While Linker will, I'm sure, have his own thoughts, I think it is important for someone who is actually gay to provide some perspective here.

For example, it's easier for a gay person to see the paradox of arguing against both same-sex marriage and concerns about autonomous individualism. In fact, for someone who is gay, the policy of prohibiting same-sex couples from forming committed, legally binding relationships for themselves and their children is what leads to the perception that gay sexuality is unchecked. Isn't it the lack of such relationships that demonstrates gay men (in particular) are autonomous individualists, and actually seems to prefer that state for us - or at least offer us no alternative?

That relates to Dreher's second point about the nature and purpose of sex and sexuality, and I think that lies at the heart of my differences with him. If the nature and purpose of sex and sexuality is procreation and only procreation, then his objection is not to same-sex marriage, but to homosexuality itself. Whether or not gays get married, their uncloseted existence in the society is a challenge to that notion of sex. But procreative sexuality has a much bigger antagonist than the 3 percent or so of us who are gay. It was not gays, but the U.S. Supreme Court who told heterosexual married couples in 1965 that the constitution guaranteed no state could prohibit them from using birth control, and followed up a few years later to clarify that this protected single heterosexuals as well. Some people really do seem to find it problematic that heterosexuals (particularly younger ones) enjoy sex so much, but I'll be damned if I'll take the rap for that. It is, perhaps, a bit harder to get heterosexuals to give up their constitutional right to nonprocreative sexual pleasure than to place the blame for sexual libertinism on a group of people who are asking, not for the legal right to have sex, but the legal right to have their relationships acknowledged.

That leads into Galt's issue about any change to the "explicitly gendered nature of marriage." Again, it's not marriage that's the issue, it's homosexuality in general. But that anxiety doesn't just arise because we're out of the closet. Heterosexual drag queens, metrosexuals, women in positions of authority and any number of other things are also constantly irritating ages-old gender roles.

As Camille Paglia has made clear for decades, though, none of this is new or surprising to anyone who's paid any attention to history, literature or the real world. Shakespeare practically cornered the market on women dressing up as men back in the 16th Century; you can't throw a rock through the 17th Century without hitting a dandy or a fop; and if the women's suffrage movement did anything, it cemented our modern idea of women as men's equals in the culture -- though the cement is still drying.

It is unfair that homosexuals are being held, somehow, accountable for the tensions that sexual roles are subject to today. It's not in our power to wipe out the memory of Sex and the City and Will & Grace. We live in a civil society right alongside heterosexuals, and that's not going to change. If we can't have equal marriage rights, what can we have without transgressing Dreher's concerns about gender roles in marriage? That isn't clear to me in Dreher's posts. Should we be allowed to enter legally recognized civil unions identical to marriage? Be allowed some of the same legal rights as married couples but not others? Have our relationships ignored in the law, as they have been for centuries? I do not think Dreher would believe we should simply disappear, so unless he thinks that we are somehow not really homosexual at all, and are just being perverse in not choosing to marry someone of the opposite sex, it is fair to ask him how he thinks the law should treat our relationships.

That, ultimately, is the question. Marriage is the simplest and most obvious answer, but if it isn't the right one, we need to know what is.

Not Even 40 Years Ago…

...in November of 1971, the federal personnel office wrote this letter to Frank Kameny, the pioneering gay-rights activist (still going strong, btw), in response to Kameny's protest of the firing of a gay federal employee named Donald Preston Rau:

The activities of sodomy, fellatio, anal intercourse, mutual masturbation, and homosexual caressing and rubbing of bodies together to obtain sexual excitement or climax are considered to be acts of sexual perversions and to be acts of immoral conduct, which, under present mores of our society, are regarded as scandalous, disgraceful, and abhorrent to the overwhelming majority of people. ...

Individuals who engage in acts of sex perversion and other homosexual acts...are not regarded with respect by the overwhelming majority of people. Indeed, some of the most extreme epithets of contempt and vituperation are popularly applied to persons who engage in such activities...

The letter goes on, and on, in that vein (the first page is here).

And today? On April 3, 2009 (the same day, as it happens, when Iowa's Supreme Court ruled for gay marriage), John Berry, an openly gay man, was confirmed to head that same federal personnel office. And the 1971 letter to Kameny is, literally, a museum piece: it's in the Library of Congress, along with the rest of Kameny's papers. No comment I could make could say more than that.

(Hat tip to Charles Francis of the Kameny Papers project.)

It gets better: Via email, Frank Kameny explains that this case was part of litigation which, in 1973, produced a court order that led to the lifting of the federal gay-employment ban in 1975. He says he was told by a government official, "'The government has decided to change its policies to suit you,' which I have always cherished."

Frank continues:

In the 1960s [John W.] Macy's CSC [the Civil Service Commision, antecedent of today's Office of Personnel Management] would not even meet with us, to discuss these issues, until we picketed them on June 25, 1965. But they remained adamant, as the Library of Congress letters show.

I had thought that the issue of gays in government was long nicely settled and behind us. But now - to have an openly gay man appointed as the successor, several steps removed, to Macy and Hampton [Macy's successor]!!! They must be turning over in their graves. And I feel truly vindicated beyond anything I might ever have expected or imagined. It's like the perfect, contrived happy ending to a fictional fairy tale. It's too perfect to be true in reality. But there it is.

No, wait, it gets even better:

Berry has personally invited me to be present at his swearing-in.

Words fail, except to say: Thank you, Frank.

Iowa!

The Iowa Supreme Court ruled today that the state law excluding same-sex couples from marriage denies them equal protection. I've just read the opinion, and have a couple of preliminary thoughts.

This is the first opinion that has upheld gay marriage unanimously. All of the other state court opinions, from Hawaii in 1993 through California have been divided.

The opinion is a careful exercise in logic. It is easy for judges to get carried away with grand pronouncements and inflated rhetoric for the ages. Most issues that come before even state supreme courts tend to be mundane legal matters, and whatever can be said of same-sex marriage, it is not mundane - nor will the opinion go unnoticed. For the most part, the Iowa decision avoids the temptation to get stagey and grand, and that is welcome.

The core of the decision rests on this single paragraph, which sums up the reasoning lesbians and gay men have been offering for decades now:

"Viewed in the complete context of marriage, including intimacy, civil marriage with a person of the opposite sex is as unappealing to a gay or lesbian person as civil marriage with a person of the same sex is to a heterosexual. Thus, the right of a gay or lesbian person under the marriage statute to enter into a civil marriage only with a person of the opposite sex is no right at all."

This, of course, makes all the sense in the world to us, but the fact that it requires explaining to others shows why equal protection is a necessary constitutional protection.

We have come a long way since 1971, when the Minnesota Supreme Court decided, in a fourteen paragraph opinion, that no right to same-sex marriage could even be considered, because marriage is simply defined as a union between a man and a woman, period. Those brief paragraphs stand in start contrast to the 70 pages in this opinion, the 160 (including concurrences and dissents) of California, and the acres of paperage devoted to all of the other more recent cases on this issue.

From the unanimous rejection of our claims 28 years ago to today's unanimous acceptance of our arguments, this country (and, increasingly, the world) are seriously considering what marriage is, and what real reasons there might be for excluding same-sex couples from its legal obligations and protections. This opinion, like the others that have preceded it, will not end the discussion, either in Iowa or anyplace else. But the fact we are able to have the discussion now is tribute to a culture that is willing to think through its legal structures, and ask questions of itself.

The Iowa opinion not only asks those questions, but takes the time to think through the answers - and shows its work. You may agree or disagree, but unlike the first opinions on same-sex marriage, you have some reasoning to agree or disagree with. And for a group like gays where even today Don't Ask, Don't Tell is the law and practice in too many areas, this is progress.

***Correction***

I have had my arithmetic gently but firmly corrected in a Comment -- it's been 38 years since 1971, not 28. I'm leaving the original up to try and discipline myself.

Hoops and Heresy

I have been a bit conflicted lately. On one hand, I've been rooting for my Catholic alma mater, Villanova, in the NCAA men's basketball playoffs. On the other hand, I love the new condom wrappers featuring a picture of Pope Benedict XVI and the caption, "I said no!"

Pope Maledict, as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger was dubbed by gay rights pioneer Frank Kameny after being elevated to the Chair of Saint Peter, provoked consternation among HIV/AIDS workers last month by denouncing condoms during a visit to Africa. But he was just being himself. In 1986 he wrote that those who engage in homosexual activity "annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator's sexual design" and thereby "confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent."

It is not clear how the homosexual part of God's design annuls the heterosexual part, nor why gay lovemaking is any less giving than that of, say, an infertile straight couple. By contrast, Ratzinger for years protected the late Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, founder of the Legion of Christ, who was accused of sexually abusing seminarians.

The Church's weak grasp of reality was evident in its recent excommunication of Brazilian doctors who performed an abortion on a 9-year-old girl who had been raped by her stepfather. Her mother was also excommunicated, but not the rapist. The girl had become pregnant with twins, and doctors judged her pelvis unable to support their gestation. When a Church spokesman said, "Life must always be protected," he wasn't thinking of the girl. As controversy grew, however, the excommunication was overruled by a conference of Brazilian bishops, and the Vatican criticized the case's initial handling.

Ah, but I was taught not to throw out the baby with the bathwater; indeed I know many reform-minded clergy, some even calling for openness to women's participation in the priesthood. Scripture also retains its value despite selective and tendentious reading by churchmen who use it more for control than reflection. One of my favorite passages is Deuteronomy 8:3, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord." A variation occurs in Lorraine Hansberry's play A Raisin in the Sun when Beneatha's Nigerian suitor explains that his nickname for her, "Alaiyo," means "one for whom bread - food - is not enough."

We are creatures for whom bread is not enough. Our quest for meaning drives us to explore and innovate. In the process it makes heresy unavoidable. In a diverse society, one man's priest is another man's iconoclast.

On March 19, American University's Washington College of Law hosted a conference on marriage initiatives. One panelist was Helen Alvaré, a law professor from George Mason University and an advisor to Benedict's Pontifical Council for the Laity. She talked as if marriage-equality advocates sought to change an eternally unchanging institution. I pointed out that civil law already differs considerably from Church doctrine on marriage, and the marriage fight is about civil law. Unfortunately, despite Christ's admonition in Matthew 22:21 ("Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's, and to God that which is God's"), the Church habitually seeks to conflate church law and civil law, as in its opposition to decriminalizing homosexuality.

Despite the Church's pose of unchanging perfection, its early centuries actually saw popes who were the sons of popes, and priestly celibacy was not definitively imposed until 1139. As for the inviolate nature of the marriage institution, its limits were suggested by 18th Century French playwright Pierre Beaumarchais, whose Marriage of Figaro centers on Count Almaviva's intention to exercise "le droit du Seigneur," a tradition whereby a feudal lord was entitled to take the virginity of the women on his estate. Happily, the betrothed valet and chambermaid gain the help of the Countess in thwarting him. This lighthearted fiction hit close enough to home that it was banned for a time in the French court.

Frank Kameny believes that something old enough to be a tradition is old enough to be challenged. He said as much in 1978 during a gay rights debate I organized at Villanova. I honed my skills for intellectual challenge in my undergraduate years there. As the Wildcats prepare for the Final Four, I am glad that hoops get all the attention. If His Holiness knew what was going on in Villanova's science building, I am afraid he would rearrange his 15th Century vestments uncomfortably and cry, "Stop!"

Dreher’s Conversation With No One

Rod Dreher has two new posts about same-sex marriage here and here.

The first purports to answer the arguments of Damon Linker and Andrew Sullivan, but does not. In response to Linker's arguments, Dreher dismisses Linker's casual summation of their disagreements, and then goes into a lengthy critique of liberalism's hegemony in modern America. He then observes it's hard for conservative arguments against same-sex marriage to be taken seriously, and moves on. He does not mention, much less answer any of Linker's substantive arguments. With Sullivan, too, Dreher finds a snippet about the Pope objectionable, and defends orthodox religious thinking about moral authority. But again, he does not engage any of Andrew's arguments in favor of same-sex marriage and show why they are wrong. Instead, he repeats the trope that if we have same-sex marriage we're getting polygamy, too, and bemoans the fact that we keep talking past each other and getting all emotional.

His second post asks whether gay marriage will strengthen same-sex unions or undermine the concept of marriage - a binary formulation that leaves unexamined the possibility that it might strengthen same-sex unions and strengthen marriage as well; or leave marriage unchanged in the minds and relationships of most heterosexuals. He then returns to form (at least on this issue) by finding quotes from liberal stalwars like Matt Foreman, Joe Solomonese and Jenny Pizer, and linking to the bête noir of the right, the "manifesto" called "Beyond Same-Sex Marriage," which was recently cited by the American Law Institute. Again, Dreher doesn't man up to the best arguments being made in favor of same-sex marriage, focusing on liberal boogeymen who are much easier to refute. "Beyond Same-Sex Marriage" may not be the Protocols of the Elders of The Castro, but it's not anything that's ever driven the debate over same-sex marriage, and is far more popular as a whipping boy of the right than as an agenda for much of anyone.

I think this shows that, while several of us are very interested in engaging him in the debate, it is Dreher who is talking past us - or, more accurately, around us. There was plenty to respond to in both Linker's and Andrew's posts for anyone who wanted to engage the issue of same-sex marriage in a pluralistic democracy - which is the question. I, too, had a couple of what I think of as serious issues with Dreher's arguments that might be worth responding to.

Those were not the arguments Dreher chose to take on. If you want to have a discussion with someone, it's hardly polite to keep referring to someone else's arguments, and ignoring what the people you're supposed to be conversing with are saying.