There Are No Adequate Words

I don’t usually like to go too far afield from the blog’s focus on gay people and our issues — and, as a counter-voice blog, to take a critical look at the movement that claims to speak in our name. That said, I find it necessary to consider the events of this week in Israel and, in particular, those who are supporting Hamas and its barbarism. A few shared posts calling out this vileness follow below.

And this:

11 Comments for “There Are No Adequate Words”

  1. posted by Edward TJ Brown on

    As someone who is Jewish and reasonably, center-progressive I have to say a few things.

    Yes. Hamas is a Islamic fundamentalist militant group (some say it/founder got its initial funding from Israel, but l digress) . They are not interested in peace, tolerance or anything but an right-wing, Islamic regime under their control.

    Most of the Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas got power mainly because the more secular alternative party is slightly more corrupt and inept.

    Most of them – Palestinians – would like to live/work/play in peace and in their own parliamentary nation-state. Reasonable goals.

    Hamas is very right-wing populist and whenever you have armed, far right or, far left parties, peace and tolerance decline.

  2. posted by Edward TJ Brown on

    Also, the status of LGBTQ people in the middle east is a “gay rights” concern.

    Legally, Israel is quite progressive. Legally, Palestine is split between a Jordanian based penal code and an old timey British colonial that has an anti-gay law.

    The Palestinian LGBTQ-rights movement is younger then the Israeli one and the two party choices in palestine are both corrupt and one is corrupt and heavily armed.

    Although the push by the Likud Party to cough, cough “reform” the independent judicial branch generated well earned criticism from the center and progressives.

  3. posted by Kosh III on

    Hamas violence is wrong, just as the terrorist groups Irgun, Stern Gang and others were wrong.
    What they have in common, other than violence is the desire to have a homeland for their people.
    Don’t forget that Hamas won a fair and free election for control of Palestine in 2006.

    • posted by Kosh III on

      OOps, hit the post button accidentally. Anyhoo, Bush and Israel refused to accept the election result and used VIOLENCE to force Hamas out of the West Bank leaving the corrupt and malleable PA in control.
      A two-state solution remains the flawed but best solution but Israel has rejected that option since the beginning as have many Palestinians who were violently driven from their ancestral homes by Zionists.
      Just a reminder that this could get uglier quickly if Israel decides to use it’s nuclear arsenal. One or two dropped on Gaza and you have a final solution.

      • posted by Jorge on

        Gaza is small enough that dropping a nuke on it would be more damaging to Israel than Hamas’s attack.

  4. posted by Jorge on

    There’s a gayify button: US Rep. Ritchie Torres’s takedown of the Democratic Socialists of America’s pro-Palestinian rally.

    Yes, yes, counter intersectionalist fantasy and all that. And the obligatory “condemn Hamas” statement. It’s like everyone watched those videos of David Horowitz speaking. I’ll condemn Hamas, but I’ll also take an opportunity to condemn that gay? Muslim domestic terrorist who shot up Pulse.

    Truth be told I put more concern into the experience of Palestinian Americans than American Jews–mostly because there’s less of them in positions of power and influence. I am very disappointed in what I have seen from what passes as their public voice. Rep. Tlaib looks like a breath of fresh air in comparison. I have my suspicions about why that is. The institutional retreat from American civics and its denunciation of everything that aspires to be an American tradition has been a disaster for teaching the values of tolerance and industry. To students and parents (yes, I say parents!) whose baseline environment throws obstacles more at one than the other, the outcome has been lopsided in one way or another. It is not too much a stretch to consider that terrorist organizations fill the vacuum in American education just as easily as gangs and other malign influences do.

  5. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Stephen, keep Rav Herschel’s admonition in mind: “Speech has power. Words do not fade. What starts out as a sound, ends in a deed.”

  6. posted by Jorge on

    Stephen, keep Rav Herschel’s admonition in mind: “Speech has power. Words do not fade. What starts out as a sound, ends in a deed.”

    Those posters Mr. Miller added Tuesday got a dentist fired in Florida when he took them down. His attorney says he was concerned they would incite violence. We have seen in the United States a 6 year old Palestinian boy murdered with a knife. In New York more of the random violence has been against Jews caught isolated. I think that’s because no one ever reveals they’re Palestinian in New York without having a lot of people covering their back. I in no way begrudge all those rallies they’re holding–I’m with AOC on this one: it’s the choice of content that’s deplorable.

    Madonna (who for some reason is admired by gay people) made public commentary at a concert recently. Isn’t Madonna a convert to some sort of Jewish mysticism? It was… evenhanded bleedingheart. Well she mentioned the dead US boy.

    Much like the days after 9/11 I feel like I’m heartless and callous… that’s it now.

  7. posted by Edward TJ Brown on

    1. Most Israelis really want SECURITY and the only way to get that is through a land-for-peace deal. We came very close — under Labour Governments BTW — twice, but the entire region is not overpopulated with the best of political leadership.

    2. Most Palestinians want self-determination through an Independent and democratic Palestinian nation. The only way to get that is through a land-for-peace deal. Again, we have come close — under center left governments — to achieving this.

    3. Both Israelis and Palestinians want a better standard of living for themselves and their children. This is going to require resources, training, and the like from the international community. Peace and security is not just about borders — although that is important — it is also about a certain quality of life.

  8. posted by acoolerclimate on

    I’ve been liberal my whole life. I’m 58. But recent events have been changing my thinking. It started with the trans movement, but seeing liberals cheer on Hamas has gutted me. I was always befuddled by the Israel/Palestine situation, but seeing what Hamas did, I just can’t. How can Israel ever live with them? I guess that was the question at the end of our civil war.
    Funny, I used to read this site always disagreeing. But now I have discovered I agree way more often than naught.
    One other thing that has surprised me, is how angry progressives gets if you voice even the slightest doubt or need for a discussion. When did that happen? I asked a simply question about trans and got slammed as transphobic and a genital fetishist. Now I ask some questions about Palestine, and I get the same reaction. No one wants to try and persuade. Or have a debate. It’s strange.

  9. posted by William on

    Edward TJ Brown wrote ” Most Israelis really want SECURITY and the only way to get that is through a land-for-peace deal.”

    I don’t see any real support any more for the 2-state solution outside of older U.S. liberals. Despite misleading reports, most Palestinians in Gaza appear to support Hamas and its destroy Israel, kill the Jews ideology. In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority promotes rabid Jew hatred and pays bonuses to the families of the Gaza “martyrs.”
    While U.S. liberals, Jewish and otherwise, may still hold the 2-state dream, the left is in the streets chanting that Palestine shall be “from the river to the sea” (i.e., the total elimination of Israel and its Jewish population). The Palestinian Authority was offered a pathway to a 2-state solution many times over the years (in 2000, 2001, 2008 and 2014), and each time the PA rejected it (because the PA leaders knew they’d be assassinated if they moved to accept such an agreement).
    We see what happened after Gaza itself was granted political autonomy with the forced removal, by Israel, of all Jewish residents. It was the intended building block for a 2-state solution, but you can’t surmount the Palestinians’ rejectionist ideology.

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