Gay GOPers and Buttigieg

I agree.

18 Comments for “Gay GOPers and Buttigieg”

  1. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    I’m curious about why gay/lesbian conservatives would be expected to vote for a gay liberal or why gay/lesbian liberals would be expected to vote for a gay conservative. If “equal means equal” means anything, gay/lesbian candidates should be supported or opposed on the basis of their policies, not their sexual orientation.

    Americans — most Americans, anyway — seem to have moved beyond the day (not too long ago) when sexual orientation of political candidates was a voting issue. The minority of those that are left are on the right, conservative Christians for the most part.

    Gallup polls have consistently reported for several years that only about 25% of Americans would withold support from a gay/lesbian candidate because of his/her sexual orientation, and even Rasmussen (which tends to significantly over represent conservatives in its sampling) recently conducted a poll that showed that only about 40% would withhold support on the basis of sexual orientation.

    That’s a good thing, in my opinion. Let political candidates win or lose based on policy issues and other neutral factors, such as character and fitness for office.

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  2. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    “If the average Democrat wants to swing at a cardboard cutout of the vice president to boost his fundraising numbers, then so be it. But for Mr. Buttigieg to question the faith of a man he knows better than most after a close, yearslong working relationship is shameful. The mayor knows better, and his insults say far more about his character than about the vice president’s.”

    Red herring. “I’m not critical of his faith, I’m critical of bad policies. I don’t have a problem with religion, I’m religious, too. I have a problem with religion being used as a justification to harm people, especially in the LGBTQ community.”

    Useful, though. Nothing energizes conservative Christians more than having someone “attack their faith”, even if the attack didn’t happen.

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    • posted by Jorge on

      I’m glad that Mr. Mayor Pete is walking back his criticisms of Mike Pence’s faith. Of course, now that he’s firmly in the national spotlight, there’s far less of a reason for him to continue to make provocative statements to draw attention to himself.

      As you are aware, Buttigeig stated that Mike Pence “has a problem with my creator.” That is a criticism of Mike Pence’s faith. It was a highly provocative and memorable statement for him to make and one that should be judged.

      I find your lack of sarcasm disturbing, Tom.

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      • posted by JohnInCA on

        Seriously? “Born this way” is now an “attack” on someone’s faith?

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        • posted by Mike King & David "TJ" Bauler on

          The song?

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        • posted by Jorge on

          JohnInCA, with all due respect, do not misquote me again.

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          • posted by JohnInCA on

            With all undue respect, I didn’t quote you at all, “mis” or otherwise.

            If you think I did, then you have a problem with the English language.

      • posted by Tom Scharbach on

        Tom: Useful, though. Nothing energizes conservative Christians more than having someone “attack their faith”, even if the attack didn’t happen.

        Jorge: I find your lack of sarcasm disturbing, Tom.

        Why? The theology of conservative Christianity derives from the conviction that the world is held in the thrall of Satan, that man is totally depraved, and that Christianity is under constant attack, inspired and guided by by Satan. The Christian religion, in the form taught by conservative Christians, borders on the paranoid and sociopathic.

        That’s not something I can be sarcastic about.

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        • posted by Jorge on

          Jorge: I find your lack of sarcasm disturbing, Tom.

          Why?

          It demonstrates an inability or unwillingness to recognize that which is wrong.

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    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      As you are aware, Buttigeig stated that Mike Pence “has a problem with my creator.” That is a criticism of Mike Pence’s faith. It was a highly provocative and memorable statement for him to make and one that should be judged.

      Interesting.

      This is what Buttiegieg said: “If me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade. And that’s the thing I wish the Mike Pences of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me — your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.”

      And you think that is an attack on the Vice President’s faith? I think that is nonsense.

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      • posted by Jorge on

        Absolutely, 100%, that was an attack on Mike Pence’s faith

        He was not talking shots at what Mike Pence thinks on policy. He was talking about the “Mike Pences in the world” think in their heart of hearts about homosexuality.

        So, it seems I must enter some kind of reason why “what Mike Pence thinks personally” is about faith rather than secular machismo. Then I ask you this: what information available would cause Mr. Buttigeig to think that Mr. Pence happens to have a personal belief that homosexuality is a choice? I think it’s because Pence’s family is publicly known to have very conservative religious faith. (Wife teaches in a religious school that expels sexually active gay students and teachers, if not more, Mr. Pence refuses to eat dinner alone with other women.)

        Also, it is somewhat difficult to believe that if he’s using faith-based terms when talking about himself, that he would speaking in non-faith terms in that particular criticism of others. Usually in these kind of contrasts we don’t cross different categories of moral thinking.

        So I have now established, I think needlessly, that the only thing Pete Buttigeig could have been attacking when he was attacking the personal views of the “Mike Pences of the world” was their faith-based beliefs.

        Why is it that out of all the “people of right wing sociopathic Christian faith” he could have picked to make his argument that there is a group of people of faith who have a problem with God, he chose Mike Pence? Someone who has never been known to say one whit about his personal or religious views or feelings on gays or homosexuality?

        You think it’s nonsense for me to hold Buttigeig accountable engaging in religious warfare, especially against someone who does not do the same in return? I think it’s hypocrisy for you, who repeatedly claim to recognize decades-long patterns of misconduct and dog whistles of nefarious motivations, not to.

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      • posted by Tom Scharbach on

        I think it’s hypocrisy for you, who repeatedly claim to recognize decades-long patterns of misconduct and dog whistles of nefarious motivations, not to.

        Well, don’t worry about it. You are right of course. But hypocrisy is the least of the issues that conservative Christians have with me and mine. And they are quite vocal about it, too.

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  3. posted by Jorge on

    “The mayor knows better, and his insults say far more about his character than about the vice president’s.”

    ……

    Very near the mark, but not quite my take.

    A bit of running away from one’s record and lying about others’ is to be expected from someone in his position, as is a fair bit of desperation. To quote Michelle Bachman, he’s running for presidency of the United States, he’s not running to be… anyone’s… judge.

    Oh, dear, that comparison turned out much worse than I thought it would.

    What’s revealing is not that he insults or misrepresents, but what he actually says about religion and faith. He’s a religious nutcase who does not believe in interfaith dialogue, to say the least.

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  4. posted by Kosh III on

    As I see it, Mayor B was critical of Pence’s POLICIES because they are based on Pence’s personal religious OPINION, opinions which consider gay people as inferior second class citizens not deserving of liberty or the pursuit of happiness.
    I watched Pence on CSPAN in early 2016 speaking to a major conservative convention. Had he tossed in a few misquotes from the Bible, it could’ve been Jerry Falwell speaking.

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  5. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Meanwhile, conservative operatives at work. Again. And again. And again.

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  6. posted by Mike King & David "TJ" Bauler on

    Um, VP Pence could EASILY rebuke Mayor Pete by endorsing civil rights protections for LGBT people. If he publicly endorsed and helped to pass such legislation, then what Mayor Pete says about Pence’s anti-gay record would not carry as much weight.

    The likely reality is the VP Pence is not going to walk away from his anti-gay voting record or anti-gay public statements.

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