Pete and Pence

Where has the love gone?

17 Comments for “Pete and Pence”

  1. posted by Jorge on

    Again with Mike Pence? I’m getting a little tired of the repetition.

    It’s like Pence is the worst player in history, leaving a trail of gaybies as he hops from one cheerleading squad to the next… wait, is that where the slang came from in English?

    “The message many gay people get that there’s something wrong with them, he continued, “is a message that puts you at war not only with yourself, but with your maker.””

    Going to war against the maker can lead to great enlightenment, though one risks losing to the greater good.

    The idea that there’s “nothing” wrong with X is no more sensible than the idea that there’s “something” wrong with X. Both ideas rob you of the freedom, power, and responsibility to choose your next action. No, I am not advocating situational ethics. I am saying that the right way to believe and live cannot be chosen for you.

    “I can’t believe that somebody that was caught writing hush money checks to adult film actresses is somebody they should be lifting up as the kind of person they want to be leading this nation,” he said on “Meet the Press” Sunday.”

    This guy doesn’t know his Bible as well as he thinks he does. Wasn’t it Jesus himself who did the exact same thing (no, he didn’t actually have a romantic relationship with Mary Magdaline, but…)?

    Jesus said to cut off your hand if it causes you to sin, not because your hand itself is sinful. If, on the other hand, your sinful hand should save your life, what shall one make of that?

    You know the funny thing about the New Testament is that everyone in the stained glass windows magically stopped being adulterers and brawlers and blasphemers and they got to wag their fingers at everyone who didn’t, even the married people became celibate… yeah, no that didn’t really happen even early Christianity had to purge a number of city leaders. They never put any kind of purity test in people coming in (not that I *really* believe that). You have to lead people who do not yet meet your standards.

    If I don’t believe evangelical boogeymen are right when they exclude gays, it seems to be for the same reasons equally wrong to believe that they are wrong when they accept Trump.


    It seems to me only too fair that I refuse to believe Pete Buttigieg is right when he puts his own Christian purity test on Evangelicals.

    President Trump has many faults, and is a threat to the future of this country in a number of different ways. The overt attack, in the form of his personal immoral example, is in my view simply not one of them.

    • posted by Jorge on

      Oh, right, I forgot to make my point.

      The “Bible” whose correct interpretation Mayor Pete is so gung-ho about is a collection of texts made sacred by religious committee, who took the best of what was going on, and left out the worst–especially with respect to the New Testament.

      But religious tradition does not and should not deal only with the leadership and lives of the best. It needs to deal with real problems here down on earth. I find Mayor Pete’s methods of Biblical interpretation and pontification a little self-serving. A little.

      • posted by Kosh III on

        “I find Mayor Pete’s methods of Biblical interpretation and pontification a little self-serving. A little.”

        As opposed to Pat Robertson’s total infallibility?
        Pete wouldn’t even mention it if the Religious Reich would STFU and stop trying to use their religious OPINION for the basis of public policy; which they’ve been doing non-stop for decades.

        • posted by Jorge on

          As opposed to Pat Robertson’s…

          You seem to have considerable (dis-)loyalty toward Pat Robertson and only him as a figurehead or symbol. I think Pat Robertson’s public life is a strawman, because neither I nor Mr. Miller are talking about him. I would be more than pleased to devote a paean to the noble Pope Benedict, about whom I had a good sentimental cry on my way home from work today. What was his demand again? Ah, yes, “Clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.” (You know, that would make for a great Trump For President sticker.) I have expressed the view many times on this site that this doctrinal statement should be treated with great respect on behalf of those who follow it.

          Mr. Miller is talking about Mike Pence, Mayor Pete and I are talking about Evangelicals. With both what we have from the gay community is something akin to devil cursing, which I personally don’t see as much different from devil worship. It’s a false religion. I see no objective reason to talk about Pat Robertson, because he has taken your advice and shut the foamy Santorum up. And so has Mike Pence.

          • posted by Kosh III on

            I mentioned Robertson because he is such a recognizable figure whose gay-bashing goes all the way back to the start when he kicked Jim and Tammy to the curb after they created a successful business for him.
            But I can add plenty of gay-haters in prominent places: Sen Alexander and Blackburn, John Hagee, James Dobson, Chuck Smith, Pope Benedict, Peter Akinola, need more??

        • posted by Tom Scharbach on

          Robertson, Smobertson. He’s old hat, decrepit and senile.

          For the definitive Christio-Republican word on Pete/Pence, turn to Tony Perkins, who claims to have authored the 2016 Republican Platform on LGBT issues, and who had this to say on Todd Starnes’ Fox Nation show this morning:

          “The fact is, God does not create people that way. Now, there’s circumstances that lead one maybe down that path, and I’m not saying anyone would choose that lifestyle. But to say that they were made by God? First off, the science doesn’t back that up, and Scripture doesn’t back that up, because Jesus himself spoke to what marriage was. And Matthew also spoke to what gender was. I don’t hear Mayor Pete quoting that.

          “Scripture warns of wolves in sheep’s clothing coming and talking smooth, trying to be all things to all people. The reality is he’s advocating for policies that are not in line with the Scripture. You can talk about words. You can use the rhetoric of Scripture, but your policy has to match it.

          “When you’re redefining god’s institution of marriage, you can’t claim to be carrying out the policies and principles of Scripture when you’re doing things that are 180 degrees from it.”

          I look forward to the 2018 Republican Platform.

          • posted by Tom Scharbach on

            I look forward to the 2018 Republican Platform.

            I meant 2020 Platform, of course. It will be Trump/Pence’s chance to sideline Tony Perkins and his ilk, and “show the love”, as Stephen puts it.

          • posted by Jorge on

            I can’t stand Protestant theology.

        • posted by Tom Scharbach on

          I can’t stand Protestant theology.

          If you think that what Tony Perkins and his ilk are doing constitutes (or even approximates) theology, you need to rethink.

  2. posted by Kosh III on

    “while talking out of the other side of his mouth about the need for ‘civility’ and Christian behavior in our politics.”

    Maybe if the avowed “Christians” like Pence, Falwell and others had been civil and respectful to gay people all these years instead of pumping out poisonous propaganda urging the abuse and suppression of gay people and others who did not conform to their religious opinion????

  3. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Vice President Pence has an unbroken and unblemished anti-equality record dating back two decades, to his days in Congress.

    As to the religious infighting between Christians about LGBT issues, I take no position, being an outsider to that religious tradition.

    My only comment on that score is that the sooner Christians recognize that our social compact is based on furthering the common good rather than on obedience to religious tradition, the better.

  4. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Jennifer Rubin has an op-ed in the WP this morning about Buttigieg’s “faith/values”. Rubin is a neo-conservative, who (like Charlie Sykes, George Will and many other conservatives I respect) no longer has a home in the post-Trump conservative movement, but her views are interesting.

  5. posted by Mike King & David "TJ" Bauler on

    “Vice President Pence has an unbroken and unblemished anti-equality record dating back two decades, to his days in Congress. ”

    Yes, but too many ‘homocons’ live in an alternative universe where having an anti-equality record does not matter, as long as the politician promises tax cuts from the elite and can say something nice about them gays.

    • posted by Kosh III on

      “say something nice about them gays.”

      Something nice being “we don’t want to put them in camps or execute them”

  6. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    More from the Tony Perkin’s FRC:

    Mayor Pete Pontificates — Pete Buttigeig, the self-identifying “gay” mayor of South Bend, has been making quite a name for himself by attacking the President and his evangelical supporters. On Sunday’s edition of “Meet the Press,” Buttigieg took a swing at evangelicals who helped propel President Trump to victory in 2016, fuming: “It’s something that frustrates me because the hypocrisy is unbelievable…” What Mayor Pete and his tribe don’t get is that most evangelicals who support President Trump don’t rationalize or excuse his personal failings; rather they endorse the policies of his administration that reflect biblical truth on everything from protecting pre-borns and defending religious liberty to reversing Obama’s transgender military policy and nominating conservative judges to the courts. This isn’t blind allegiance or phony opportunism. This is reasoned support for a leader who has made and kept his promises — promises that line up with our values.

    But Mayor Pete, an Episcopalian, wasn’t done Sunday. At the LGBTQ Victory Fund Brunch in D.C., he called out Vice President Pence as well. “My marriage to Chasten has made me a better man and yes, Mr. Vice President, it has moved me closer to God,” he declared. “I can tell you, that if me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade,” he added to loud cheers from the audience. “And that’s the thing I wish the Mike Pence’s of the world could understand, that if you have a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.”

    In an interview with Todd Starnes, Tony Perkins responded that Mayor Pete really didn’t have an “issue with the words of Mike Pence… he has an issue with the words of Scripture.” Leaving aside the breathtaking biblical blindness the Mayor displayed, the real reason he is unhappy with evangelicals is not because we’re “haters” or “hypocrites.” It’s because we stand in the way of implementing his radical ideology in public policy, like installing the sweeping LGBTQ expansion of the civil rights code through the Equality Act and rolling back President Trump’s military transgender policy. Mayor Pete’s ultimate goal, like the goal of so many liberals, is to try to embarrass evangelicals into disengaging from politics so that those radical policies can be pursued without our active opposition. But if there’s anything evangelicals have learned over the last 10 years, it’s that elections have consequences and religious persecution at the hands of the “tolerant” is always just one vote away. (Buttigieg takes a swing at Evangelicals; Meet the Press Interview; LGBT Victory Fund Brunch Remarks; Tony on Todd Starnes)

    Holy God, we pray for this misguided soul who unashamedly calls good “evil” and evil “good.” Protect those who hear this “blind guide” from following him into the ditch spiritually and politically. Reveal yourself to him in an unmistakable way to the end that he can no longer worship the god of his imagination but worship you in Spirit and in truth. (Lev. 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:8-10; Isa. 5:20-23; Matt. 15:14; John 4:24)

    Makes you kind of wish you could be a “prayer target”, too, huh?

  7. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    As an aside, if anyone is interested in helping Buttigieg garner the 65,000 discrete donors that he will need to meet the debate threshold, visit the “Pete for America” campaign website and donate through ActBlue. I did, last night, because I think his is a voice that needs to be heard in the Democratic primaries.

    • posted by Jorge on

      Eh. I’m already getting tired of him dragging Pence into the spotlight just so he can keep up his presidential campaign.

      John Kerry may have been the most qualified candidate in 2004, but… in the end that stunt he pulled with Mary Cheney ended up causing a lot of damage to the country. Buttigieg seems to have a way of trying to keep his hands clean when he’s throwing mud. I don’t like that.

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