Israeli Pride

Point:


Counterpoint:

8 Comments for “Israeli Pride”

  1. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Point. Counterpoint.

    And your point?

    I am proud of everyone who is marching in the #TLVPride Parade today in support of #diversity and #equality. Promoting, protecting, and advancing human rights – including the rights of #LGBTI persons – has long been the policy of the United States.

    Right.

    What has the Trump administration done to “promote, protect and advance the rights of LGBT persons” in our Middle East allies — such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Libya, Egypt, Turkey, and Jordan, for example? Or countries with which we cooperate outside the Middle East — Russia, for example? What has the Trump administration done to influence Israel, for that matter, to permit gays and lesbians to marry in the country, instead of having to go to Europe to marry?

    Talking up LGBT rights in countries that already “promote, protect and advance” those rights is easy — kind of like holding an upside down Pride flag and crowing about how gay-supportive you are.

    Confronting countries that don’t is where the rubber meets the road — kind of like confronting conservative Christian political allies to change their tune on equal treatment for gays and lesbians under the law.

    So again, what’s your point?

    Reply
    • posted by David Bauler on

      Saudi Arabia — Only the Green Party of Saudi Arabia has talked about LGBT rights and they are almost certainly an illegal organization. None of the other Saudi reformists or critics of the government have expressed support for gay rights.

      Kuwait — does something similar to Egypt. The law punishes ‘debauchery’ instead of explicitly dealing with homosexuality. Gays in Kuwait have tried to organize, with no support from the government.

      Libya is a mess. Egypt’s revolution made things even less secular.

      Turkey has an active LGBT rights movement, that was very close to marriage equality…Then the current President took over and became to punish dissident and difference within the society under a law and order-style campaign.

      Jordan has a a LGBT rights movement, but its largely about creating a more tolerance society, in general. Homosexuality is not illegal, but it is very taboo.

      Reply
    • posted by David Bauler on

      The argument being put forth, sloppily I might add, is that any criticism of Israeli policy amounts to either hatred of Jewish people and or hatred of gay people. The reader is suppose to imagine a contrast of hip and friendly Israelis versus the alien, savage Palestinians.

      American Conservatives love to point out how gay-friendly Israel is, while opposing gay rights bills in America and while also ignoring the fact that just about every positive step for LGBT Israelis came from liberals and leftists.

      During the Cold War, a similar game was played with regards to Cuba. American conservatives would pretend to care about homophobia in Cuba, but only if it meant that they didn’t have to care about homophobia in America.

      In the 1980s, the Cuba’s anti-gay policies started to get noticed by the western press. A documentary film was made and conservatives were quick to say, “See! We told you that Communists oppress people.” Never mind the fact that, conservatives — in the 1980s — rarely sought to hide the reasoning behind the New Right’s homophobia.

      Reply
  2. posted by MR Bill on

    His point is “Israeli good: Palestinian bad.”

    Reply
    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      Got it.

      Well, now that there “no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea”, perhaps President Trump can devote some time to working with the Palestinians in “promote, protect and advance the rights of LGBT persons” within the Occupied Territories.

      Reply
  3. posted by David Bauler on

    Israel inherited a British anti-buggery law, but limited its enforcement in the 1960s (in terms of consenting adults) and formally repealed the law in the 1988. Note that Conservatives (especially the religious parties) generally opposed the progress, while liberals, leftists, greens generally backed the progress.

    I believe that homosexuality is illegal in part of the Palestinian territory (British buggery law), but legal in another part (influenced by Jordain law). Civil society and democratic institutions have been slow to develop because of terrorists and the occupation.

    Israel had to deal with terrorism, but was not occupied. Civil society and democratic institutions developed to the point where a LGBT rights movement was largely respected by the liberal and leftist factions.

    Again, development in Palestine has been difficult, if not impossible. The Government is either corrupt or terrorists. Elections are not fair, the press is not free, public sentiment generally does not see their lives getting better. These are all not good for LGBT rights.

    Reply
  4. posted by David Bauler on

    and another thing….

    Israel does not have marriage equality, until recently it did not have a civil marriage option for heterosexuals either, but recent acts have created a civil marriage option for heterosexuals, while gay couples have limited domestic partnership rights, mainly through a series of court decisions.

    Being Arab-Israeli (or just Arab within Israel) comes with its own set of legal and social barriers. LGBT Palestinians who get authorization to live in Israel (oftentimes the cities) have to deal with racism.

    They can march in a gay parade, but the job market for Arabs in Israel is not without its barriers. To say nothing of the fact that they will — rightly or wrongly — be seen as helping the occupation, which makes it hard to maintain ties with family or friends.

    I see something similar with how the right talks about Cuba. Gay Cubans who fled Cuban homophobia — under Castro or pre Castro — generally reported a more liberal attitude in the U.S. or Canada. Yet, gay Cubans would also report facing racism from the gay community itself and from the broader society.

    Reply

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