As I’ve noted before, I am not a Donald Trump supporter, finding him unfit by dint of his positions on immigration, trade and civil liberties, as well as due to his hair-trigger personality. I am also not a Hillary Clinton supporter, given her long history of corruption and dishonesty, and her awful positions on taxes, spending and regulation. [Not to mention her rolling foreign policy disasters as Sec’y of State.]
That said, if there’s one thing good about Trump, it’s that as the GOP presidential nominee he has reached out to, as he puts it, “LGBTQ” Americans. In response, the LGBT political activists who are basically an auxiliary of the Democrat party, and LGBT media of which the same is true, have promoted the lie that Trump is anti-gay.
I think it’s a good thing for gay people who find Trump’s politics and personality acceptable to be supporting him. The Washington Post reports that:
If the only gay voices you hear are Trump foes and Clinton boosters…you could easily assume that all LGBT voters are in the Democratic presidential nominee’s camp. Well, think again. A Gallup poll released Wednesday reports that 12 percent of LGBT adults view Republican nominee Donald Trump favorably. Granted, that’s compared with the 55 percent who have a positive view of Clinton, but it’s still a surprising number. Even more eyebrow-raising, the poll found that fully 21 percent of older (55+) LGBT people gave Trump a favorable rating.
That’s a 12% favorable rating; the actual gay vote for Trump is likely to be much larger.
[Update: According to Reuters polling: while in March Trump had just 13.5% support from LGBT voters, in May LGBT support rose to 18.3%. Trump’s numbers took a slight dip in June before rising to 23% in late July. However, a New York Times exit poll put LGBT votes for Trump on election day at 14%.]
The newsite buzzfeed joins the fray with a post that’s dismissively headlined Donald Trump’s Top “LGBT” Supporters Are Largely Gay White Men. The story notes that:
On Sunday night in Greeley, Colorado, Donald Trump spotted something he wanted in the crowd. He gestured to a supporter, who handed a wad of rainbow fabric up to the stage. Trump unfurled it for the fans and cameras — a pride flag scrawled with the words “LGBTs for Trump.” He strutted stage left, grinning and nodding to the audience with a literal sign of his diverse support.
Despite buzzfeed’s snark, it’s a startling photo of the likes we’ve never seen from a GOP presidential nominee, and shows why Trump’s gay support isn’t crazy.
More. Commenters have pointed to Chad Felix Greene’s deeply thoughtful essay at HuffPost, I’m Gay, But I’m Not ‘LGBT.’ Here’s Why. It’s long but well worth reading. Toward the end he addresses what has now become the Trump flag controversy:
#GaysforTrump supporters handed Donald Trump a rainbow flag they had written a supportive slogan on at an event which he held up for the cameras. The act was completely mundane in that Trump has never been hostile towards gays and he tends to be enthusiastic about all of his supporters, often showing open public support for them. Trump holding the flag was simple, it wasn’t staged, and it wasn’t a planned photo-op at a gay event to pander. It also wasn’t done with political biting-of-the-tongue because he had to. Trump was handed the flag by supporters and he did what he always does, he held it up and smiled.
Zack Ford, the LGBT editor for ThinkProgress.org, tweeted that “Putting a slogan on a flag is considered desecration. Also, the flag was upside down (red goes on top). What am I supposed to respect here?”
To which Greene responded:
The LGBT media instantly pounced on the idea that the flag was ‘upside down’ and Ford ranted endlessly, clutching multiple strands of pearls at once, about ‘desecration’ of what is now, apparently, a sacred flag. This is cult-like behavior. Its tribalism. The flag is usually presented with the red stripe at the top but there has never been a question of a correct side. The notion it is being held ‘upside down’, especially with the implication given to say an upside down cross, is nonsense. Gay people wrote on the flag, it wasn’t desecrated. I find the sudden treatment of this symbol as holy disturbing.
Indeed. Some might even say it’s crazy.
Furthermore. Trump’s holding up of the gay flag happened last Sunday. Not a word about it in the following Friday’s weekly Washington Blade, the strongly pro-Clinton LGBT paper in the nation’s capital.
The city’s conservative paper, the Washington Times, ran a supportive op-ed titled “Donald Trump holds high the flag for gay equality,” which indicates that conservatives may be more comfortable with a gay-inclusive GOP than the LGBT establishment is.
Update: In mid-December, Out magazine was still complaining that “It’s telling that when Donald Trump awkwardly waved a rainbow flag during a Colorado rally in October, the banner was upside down.”
14 Comments for “Poll: Gay Voters for Trump”
posted by Jorge on
“Poll: 12% of Gay Voters for Trump”
That’s a disaster for Trump.
“A Gallup poll released Wednesday reports that 12 percent of LGBT adults view Republican nominee Donald Trump favorably.”
Oh, never mind, that’s the favorability measure, not a vote for poll. We’re still on par.
it’s a startling photo
What the LGBT squared is up with that “s”??? I feel like I’m watching a dumb Animaniacs episode.
posted by Doug on
You might also note that the flag is upside down as is the writing. Makes me suspicious.
posted by Jorge on
Now that I consider it, it gives me the impression that it’s ghetto.
That makes it less suspicious to me.
posted by Lori Heine on
I’ve been out for nearly twenty years, now. In that time, I’ve discovered that in what is euphemistically called “the community,” there are basically two types of people. Some are open-minded, grateful and relieved to finally be out and able to live honestly and be themselves. Others are closed-minded, cliquish and determined to carry bitterness about other people’s bigotry around with them for the rest of their lives.
Neither sort can easily be classified as liberal or conservative; I’ve found plenty of both types in each camp. It’s fun being confounded, anyway, because people are too interesting to be easily categorized.
When I tell people outside “the community” that I’m a bisexual Christian libertarian-conservative, they assume that I must be some sort of a freak who’s welcome nowhere. They don’t understand how many people there are in that alphabet soup who’ve learned that loving and accepting themselves makes it easier to love and accept others.
Plus, I voted for Gary Johnson. When people get into fierce Donald-versus-Hillary battles, I can just shrug and sit on the fence.
posted by Jorge on
When I tell people outside “the community” that I’m a bisexual Christian libertarian-conservative, they assume that I must be some sort of a freak who’s welcome nowhere.
I just read an interesting article today that speaks to how there’s something different about the history of “gay” and “LGBT” identities (and a lot of other things, it’s a long read…)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/im-gay-but-im-not-lgbt-heres-why_us_5819ab94e4b045629a2be9d3
In my mind, I don’t use either the terms gay or LGBT to describe how I relate to my own “freedom and celebration of personal individuality and uniqueness” or how I relate to being within “the vast range of diversity connected under an umbrella of acceptance” and “loyal to the cause. A cause everyone must fight for”. The label “gay” carries enough of a negative connotation to me that I do not use it unconsciously. LGBT is something you join in order to make a conscious act or stand–I identify more with terms that imply such a stand more heavily.
That other people hear one’s “labels” and have preconceived notions about them based on ignorance is an annoying problem.
…there are basically two types of people. Some are open-minded, grateful and relieved to finally be out and able to live honestly and be themselves. Others are closed-minded, cliquish and determined to carry bitterness about other people’s bigotry around with them for the rest of their lives.
…It’s fun being confounded, anyway, because people are too interesting to be easily categorized.
As you say.
posted by Lori Heine on
Jorge, I read that same article today. It said a lot of things that I also happen to think, so I found it very interesting.
There are a lot of nice people at the uncool kids’ table. I like it better anyway. And as more and more people come out, the “cool” kids are getting what they regard as a very unpleasant surprise.
Many of these newcomers are more politically conservative or libertarian. They tend to be more religious. They tend to have better relationships with their families, and carry less bitter baggage. Therefore, they are more secure in who they are and less likely to care that the cool kids won’t let them sit at their table.
I suspect there are a lot of people who read this blog who don’t comment, but who fit that description.
posted by Jorge on
Zack Ford, the LGBT editor for ThinkProgress.org, tweeted that “Putting a slogan on a flag is considered desecration. Also, the flag was upside down (red goes on top). What am I supposed to respect here?”
…
There are a lot of nice people at the uncool kids’ table.
There is no need to offer respect when people write the plural “s” attached to the top of the line instead of the bottom.
Or when they write in “Murkcowski.”
Or when they insist Tinkerbell had Wendy shot in her bosom instead of her chest.
This is not a matter of breeding but bearing. One need only to lift up and shift a bit to become a snob. It’s a heavy burden.
Mr. Ford did make one mistake. He turned his nose down instead of up. When you look down you stick your head in your ass. When you look up they see your nose hairs.
posted by Tom Scharbach on
TPP is, without question, the most encouraging Presidential candidate ever fielded by the Republican Party, and he is light years ahead of the Republican political center when it comes to attitudes toward gays and lesbians.
TPP is willing to be seen with gays and lesbians, is unafraid to openly accept support from gays and lesbians, highlighted a gay supporter at the Republican convention, offers LGBT apparel for sale on his campaign website, and boldly and courageously proclaimed in his acceptance speech that gays and lesbians should be protected from “the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology”, and has drawn Stephen Bannon (who developed a “new gay voice” with Milo Yapiopoulous, a senior staffer at Bannon’s media outlet) into his inner circle of advisors. TPP has largely ignored LCR, the Republican “gay establishment”, and it is clear that LCR will have little voice going forward should TPP win the election.
All of these things, together with the fact that TPP has tossed aside the tired Reagan Republican intellectual hegemony hawked by George Will, Paul Ryan and others stuck in the political environment of the 1980’s, a very hopeful developments, and may well shape the Republican Party going forward, win or lose next week. Not a bad thing at all, for gays and lesbians in particular, and for other Americans who believe that the government has a role in promoting the common good in areas such as social security and health care. As problematic as TPP is on many fronts, it is long since time that the Republican Party broke the shackles of Reaganism, and it seems unlikely that the Republican Party will be able to ignore the impetus from the TPP wing of the Republican base.
TPP deserves kudos for what he has wrought with respect to gays and lesbians. The Republican Party, having been kicked across the threshold, now treating gays and lesbians as if they exist, will have a hard time going back. That’s a very good development.
However, a balanced view is important, I think, for a realistic assessment of TPP and his candidacy. For all the good that TPP represents, and for all the ways in which he has demolished the tired hegemony of Reublican thinking on many issues, he has not taken any concrete steps to distance himself from the 2016 Republican Platform, which is (according to LCR’s hyperbole) “the most anti-LGBT platform in the party’s history”.
With respect to the platform, TPP has taken positions agreeing with the 2016 Republican Platform on 7 of the 8 LGBT issues highlighted in the platform, and has been silent on the 8th (reparativeconversion theragpy). And issue-by-issue comparison:
The bottom line is that although TPP does not seem to be the least bit “anti-gay”, the positions he takes are, for the most part, strongly “anti-equality”. In my view, gays and lesbians should look at both aspects of TPP’s candidacy before rushing to embrace him. And it would be helpful if “anti-gay” and “anti-equality” were not so mindless conflated.
I think that the conflation of “anti-gay” with “anti-equality” clouds any assessment of TPP when it comes to LGBT issues. The conflation drags us down into a discussion of TPP’s personal attributes rather than allowing us to discuss his positions on the issues.
What counts is not what TPP thinks about gays and lesbians, but instead what TPP will do with respect to LGBT issues. Issues matter more than attitudes, as evidenced by the Bush II presidency, led by a President who had exhibited no personal “anti-gay” attitudes at all but who took positions that were disastrous for gays and lesbians.
As a side note, I would, as Jorge hinted at, be careful about conflating the number of gays and lesbians who view TPP favorably with the number of gays and lesbians who will vote for TPP next Tuesday. In recent elections, the Republican presidential candidate has picked up 20-25% of the gay/lesbian vote. If TPP falls below that number in any material way, that will be significant. But we won’t know until the election. Let’s wait and see what the exit polling shows.
posted by Houndentenor on
So Trump has about half the gay support that Romney had.
Here’s a fact for you. The heterosexual vote was split about evenly between Romney and Obama. Gay voters are how Obama won. Trump has even fewer gay voters than Romney.
So Trump did one good thing. He finally sent some homocons running from the GOP. Overdue if you ask me, but better late than never.
posted by TJ on
1. Exit polling in elections has shown that while a majority of self-identified gay voters will support the Democratic party candidate, a significant minority of self identified gay voters will support the Republican party candidate or a minor party candidate.
Granted, exit polling data cannot include gay people who do not vote or are not out — or not really into answering questions from a stranger while on the way to work or University — so it is hardly a perfect examination of gay voter’s.
The current National GOP platform is very hostile to LGBT rights, and this was noted by by (among others) the Log Cabin Republicans. The HRC probably expressed criticism of the platform as well (and those two groups do not always get along).
Trump has not expressed any real disagreement with the platform (and his VP is probably quite in agreement with it). He has said that going to a gay bar should not be a capital crime, and he does not mind have gay supporters.
posted by TJ on
Trump’s reported (noteworthy detail) bigotry and disrespectful behavior has been focused on the disabled, women, Hispanics, African Americans, Jewish Americans, other Republicans, and journalists.
Its possibly that he has said equally derogatory stuff about LGBT people, the alt-right movement is very much opposed to equality and become an extension of the Trump campaign.
However, gay voters probably haven’t actually seen much media coverage of Trump’s (or campaign’s) anti-gay comments or policies.
posted by Jorge on
TPP is, without question, the most encouraging Presidential candidate ever fielded by the Republican Party
Even I have to say, Oh, Puke!
and he is light years ahead of the Republican political center when it comes to attitudes toward gays and lesbians.
No he’s not. He’s only astronomical units (AU) away.
So Trump has about half the gay support that Romney had.
You’re misreading personal favorability (or likability) ratings with polling results. Donald Trump’s favorability ratings are lower than his poll numbers among the general electorate. So are Hillary Clinton’s. The gay electorate should be no exception.
Or do you really think she’s only going to get 55% of the gay vote? Don’t count on it.
Trump’s reported (noteworthy detail) bigotry and disrespectful behavior has been focused on the disabled, women, Hispanics, African Americans, Jewish Americans, other Republicans, and journalists.
I assume when you say reported you mean to imply it is possibly understated rather than possibly overstated. Donald Trump has no documented history of disrespectful behavior toward the disabled. He already had a documented history of making infantile gestures and intonations when mocking non-disabled people.
However, gay voters probably haven’t actually seen much media coverage of Trump’s (or campaign’s) anti-gay comments or policies.
Mmm-hmm. I have a theory about such things, TJ.
My theory is that if you present a proposition that is either counter-intuitive or otherwise disadvantageous to an opposition group (such as, “Donald Trump is pro-gay”), the group will rebut it almost immediately as effectively as it can. It’s like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
Donald Trump claimed he never groped a woman without her consent. *BAM!*
Donald Trump is pro-gay. *Whum.*
Change the question, probe more deeply, and you change the answer. “Donald Trump respects gays.” “Donald Trump is no homophobe.” When you find the opposition trying to change the subject instead of charging head on, that means either they’re dishonest or (esp. with a large group) they’ve given it all they have.
I believe the reasons nothing sordidly homophobic has come out about Donald Trump are because 1) As a wealthy and famous NY businessman, he has been socialized to be socially moderate about homosexuality for longer than half the country has been alive, 2) For the same reason, his gay associates are mostly closeted or unknown, and 3) His locker room era age-mates are few, scattered, and white male Republican, meaning progressives have a hard time even finding them.
posted by JohnInCA on
Him inability to grasp that a gay man wasn’t sexually interested in his daughter aside, I haven’t heard anything that would lead me to believe Trump is personally homophobic in the broad sense. In the specific sense, he has consistently been against my right to marry, and that was even before he became a politician.
That said, his policy positions are eventually anti-gay, whatever his initial response might be.
And frankly? We’ve had the “personally fine with gays, politically against them” before. Reagan supposed was fine (personally) with gay people. Bush Jr. was supposedly fine, he even had a gay man help orchestrate his campaign to put anti-gay amendments on the ballot in 2004! Bush Sr… don’t actually know, haven’t looked into him and haven’t heard anything come up.
So yeah. Personally fine with, but all the “right” anti-gay policy positions? Not good enough.
posted by Tom Scharbach on
FurtherMore. Trump’s holding up of the gay flag happened last Sunday. Not a word about it in the following Friday’s weekly Washington Blade, the strongly pro-Clinton LGBT paper in the nation’s capital.
In StephenWorld™ all Ted Cruz would need to do to magically transform himself from anti-equality to pro-equality is to hold up a rainbow flag. Actual positions on LGBT issues don’t matter.