Deplorables and Bigots

Hillary Clinton made it clear what she thinks of Donald Trump supporters. In comments that were only slightly walked back the next day, she told an LGBT fundraiser in New York City featuring Barbra Streisand:

To just be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, you name it.

She further explained:

That other basket of people are people who feel that government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures. They are just desperate for change. Doesn’t really even matter where it comes from.

In other words, Trump voters are either haters or pitiable dupes.

The fundraiser reportedly raised around $6 million, with ticket prices ranging from $1,200 to $250,000, with many paying $50,000, according to reports.

Are some of Trump’s supporters bigots? Sure. But nowhere near half of them, and to say so is to pander to Hillary’s supporters sense of smug moral superiority to the lower orders, particularly the white working and lower-middle classes excluded from the Democrats’ top-bottom coalition of wealthy liberals and minorities—plus, of course, the growing legions of government employees.

One could as easily claim that half of Hillary’s supporters are left-authoritarians (she was endorsed by the head of the Communist Party USA, after all), and be as close to the truth, which is to say, not very truthful at all.

Trump supporters, to a large extent, see failed Democratic policies on the economic and international fronts, and while many believe Trump to be flawed, they view him as a better choice than Hillary when it comes to reviving economic growth and defending American interests. But progressive Democrats can only see the world through a self-justifying lens of rote identity politics, so if you don’t believe in bigger, more intrusive government chipping away at economic prosperity and expressive freedom, you’re a bigot.

A case in point is Obama’s chair of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission declaring that antidiscrimination laws override other constitutional liberties and those who disagree are (well, you know):

The phrases ‘religious liberty’ and ‘religious freedom’ will stand for nothing except hypocrisy so long as they remain code words for discrimination, intolerance, racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, Christian supremacy or any form of intolerance.

Meanwhile, Massachusetts just issued a regulation requiring public accommodations to recognize people on the basis of their gender identity and not biological sex, pointedly noting that regardless of doctrinal issues, “Even a church could be seen as a place of public accommodation if it holds a secular event, such as a spaghetti supper, that is open to the general public.”

The decision of what church events are secular and which are religious is apparently to be determined by the state.

I’m no fan of Milo Yiannopoulos, the self-aggrandizing openly gay editor at the conservative Breitbart site, but he scores some points about the Democrats’ distorted view of Trump voters in this interview with CNBC. (For the record, I don’t equate most Trump supporters with the alt-right and would agree there are bigots within the alt-right movement who are backing Trump—just as there are left-authoritarians and PC inquisitors supporting Hillary.)

More. David Boaz writes that “it’s an indication that politicians like Clinton and Obama just can’t *imagine* any legitimate reason that people would vote Republican. … I think it’s a problem for politicians not to be able to imagine how anyone could think or vote differently from them.”

(I’ve moved the updates into a new post as they grew beyond a few additional closing thoughts.)

49 Comments for “Deplorables and Bigots”

  1. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Hillary Clinton made it clear what she thinks of Donald Trump supporters. In comments that were only slightly walked back the next day …

    Secretary Clinton’s statement was inept and inaccurate, as inept and inaccurate as Governor Romney’s 47% remark and Speaker Ryan’s “makers, not takers” idiocy. But it wouldn’t make any difference if Clinton’s statement was accurate, because TPP&P’s constituency isn’t what counts; TPP&P’s statements, policies and positions are what count.

    A case in point is Obama’s chair of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission declaring that “religious freedom” and “religious liberty” are just code words for intolerance.

    Actually, not. Chairman Castro’s statement is as follows (emphasis mine):

    The phrases “religious liberty” and “religious freedom” will stand for nothing except hypocrisy so long as they remain code words for discrimination, intolerance, racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, Christian supremacy or any form of intolerance. Religious liberty was never intended to give one religion dominion over other religions, or a veto power over the civil rights and civil liberties of others. However, today, as in the past, religion is being used as both a weapon and a shield by those seeking to deny others equality. In our nation’s past religion has been used to justify slavery and later, Jim Crow laws. We now see “religious liberty” arguments sneaking their way back into our political and constitutional discourse (just like the concept of “state rights”) in an effort to undermine the rights of some Americans. This generation of Americans must stand up and speak out to ensure that religion never again be twisted to deny others the full promise of America.

    The statement is an observation about the misuse of the terms “religious liberty” and “religious freedom” as code words in our current political climate, not an assertion that the terms are inherently code words.

    I suspect that your probably aren’t interested in getting into the “religious liberty” discussion in any more depth than the surface snarks that you’ve unleashed on IGF to date, but for those who are interested in the discussion beyond political ping pong, the “Peaceful Coexistence: Reconciling Nondiscrimination Principles with Civil Liberties” report, which runs about 300 pages, is a good starting point.

    Although the report reaches a conclusion about which reasonable people may differ, the analysis, majority arguments and minority counterarguments/dissents provide a solid foundation on which to understand and discuss the issues involved. The legal discussion is excellent, both in the body of the report and in the more extensive discussion emerging from the back and forth in the Commissioners’ statements and dissents, as well as the written statements. When this issue comes to the Supreme Court, as it undoubtedly will in all manner of variations, the report will provide good background to understand the cases and issues that will be involved.

    I’m no fan of Milo Yiannopoulos, the self-aggrandizing openly gay editor at the conservative Breitbart site …

    If you are not a BritTwit fan, then you might consider ignoring him rather than continually quoting him with approval. His act is way past its expiration date, and it won’t be too long before he’s worked his way into the Bachmann/Palin laughingstock ballpark. His points aren’t complicated, original or insightful, and you could make the points more credibly if you didn’t tug your forelock to him.

    • posted by Houndentenor on

      Now that the alt-right has shown its antisemitic colors, i wonder how long it is before they turn on useful idiot Milo for being gay. Or not. Who cares. His act was never all that interesting to begin with.

    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      Milo is a joke, a bitchy old queen in the making. It won’t be long before he becomes a parody of himself, a Quentin Crisp without the brains or ideas. The Alt-Right crowd keeps him around as a pet, and will tire of him soon enough.

    • posted by Jorge on

      The statement is an observation about the misuse of the terms “religious liberty” and “religious freedom” as code words in our current political climate, not an assertion that the terms are inherently code words.

      I think what Mr. Miller is getting at is that Mr. Castro’s statement engages in tribalism.

      I’m afraid I already have another reading on my backlog, so I can’t commit to reading this.

      If you are not a BritTwit fan, then you might consider ignoring him rather than continually quoting him with approval. His act is way past its expiration date, and it won’t be too long before he’s worked his way into the Bachmann/Palin laughingstock ballpark. His points aren’t complicated, original or insightful, and you could make the points more credibly if you didn’t tug your forelock to him.

      “Not a fan” could mean so many different things. Does Mr. Miller mean Milo isn’t one of the pure, that he is a horrendous person, or that he’d be okay but for a problem he’ll never be willing to correct?

      “His points aren’t complicated, original, or insightful” is just another way of saying he tells it like it is. It’s not a reputation that does his desire to look like someone who does hard work any favors, except among people who already agree with him. He needs a more measured “face” to have any real social impact. If he’s just after his own money and power, it might seem like he has it made, but he canl be crowded out by the established gurus (Rush, Hannity, etc).

      I have the sense that Milo is either smart enough or has enough elder statesmen advising him that he’ll return from his upcoming fall. Justin Bieber never quite crashed and burned; we have the makings of about the same formula here.

      • posted by Tom Scharbach on

        I have the sense that Milo is either smart enough or has enough elder statesmen advising him that he’ll return from his upcoming fall. Justin Bieber never quite crashed and burned; we have the makings of about the same formula here.

        Bieber has a lot of talent. I can’t say that I relate to his act, but he’s good. His “upcoming fall” isn’t related to lack of talent, but to out-of-control adolescent behavior. He will recover from that by growing up, if he does, and thinking/acting like an adult as a result. Take away the adolescent behavior, and what’s left is an adult with a lot of talent.

        Yappiopolous has a different problem. He isn’t an original thinker, or a deep thinker, or an insightful thinker. In a word, he isn’t talented. He’s a drone hiding behind a provocative persona. Take away the provocative personna, and what’s left? A boring drone.

    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      “His points aren’t complicated, original, or insightful” is just another way of saying he tells it like it is.

      No, it isn’t. It is “just another way of saying” that his views are mundane.

      • posted by Jorge on

        I have a poster at work portraying Donald Trump as a Pokemon, in fact one of the more infamous trolls of the series. The Alt-Right posts pictures of cartoons to engage in political trolling, too, does that make me one of them??? No, dear, it just makes you mundane.

      • posted by Tom Scharbach on

        I have a poster at work portraying Donald Trump as a Pokémon …

        Not Pepe?

        • posted by Jorge on

          No, Wobbuffet. Pepe isn’t a Pokemon. I mean now that I think about it, did I invent my own Pepe???

          http://pldh.net/media/dreamworld/202.png

          The video games didn’t originally give it this goofy expression (it’s moniker is the “Stoic Pokemon,”) but the one the villains use in the anime develops an impish personality. The species also combines being tricky to use yet very threatening in competitive play. My original intent was to portray the ups and downs of the Republican primary (e.g., it has a move that makes its opponent act like the Robot Rubio), but then it became more and more suited to Trump. Its specialty is counterattacking.

    • posted by TJ on

      I gotta wonder what’s the typical pillow talk of a high-end, alt-right male escort?

  2. posted by TJ on

    Frankly, I have not heard TPP actually articulate an substantive economic policy.

    Many of the economic complaints of blue collar and lower middle class voters aren’t going to fixed by TPP.

    They may like the largely fictional cultural image TPP is selling, but that’s a different can of worms.

  3. posted by Doug on

    Let’s not forget that according to a number of polls, well over 50% of the Republican Party believe that Obama was born in Kenya. That’s was Trump’s birtherism campaign. That’s racism propagated by GOP leadership because they could have knocked it down but they did not.

  4. posted by Houndentenor on

    Go watch a video of a Trump rally and tell me that half of the people there aren’t as bad or worse than what Clinton described. Yes, of course there are people who are going to vote for Trump who aren’t racist, sexist or antisemitic, but the steady stream of racist, sexist and antisemitic comments from his supporters has shocked me this year and I grew up in deep Teabagistan. Get your head out of your ass, Stephen and see what 30 years of pandering to racists in the GOP has wrought. It’s on full display this year.

    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      Stephen’s argument is quantitative, not qualitative — he objects to the idea that half of TPP’s supporters are “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, you name it”, but he does not argue that a lesser number of TPP’s supporters do meet that description.

      Polls suggest that TPP will garner about 80s-90% of self-identified Republican voters in the general election. TPP picked up 35-40% of Republican primary voters, consistently, a subset of the Republican voter universe. TPP’s primary rallies typically drew 5,000-10,000 people, a subset of the Republican primary voter universe.

      It is not surprising that the Republican voters at TPP rallies, a subset of a subset, were among the most committed to TPP and to the “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, you name it” ideas that TPP dog whistles — the kind of voters who think that their biggest problem is “that coon in the White House” (as I overheard a few of them opining in a Culver’s recently), “wetbacks”, “niggers” and so on.

      TPP has unleashed these folks as a political force, brought them into the Republican mainstream, and imparts a patina of respectability by using dog whistles rather than plain speech.

      “Establishment” Republicans like Governor Walker and Speaker Ryan may squirm at the rawness of the bigotry exhibited by TPP rally supporters, and Stephen and other Republican apologists may argue that only some of TPP’s supporters are “bigots”, but the party is backing TPP&P, providing the forum and the funds, and will provide the GOTV later this fall. A handful, like Senator Flake, are calling TPP&P out. But the rest are afraid to offend the some, hoping, I guess, that they can go back to business as usual after November. Good luck with that.

      The Republican Party has been playing the “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, you name it” game for a long, long time, welcoming and building a base that seethes with resentment. The TPP&P ticket, which melds the worst of the two largest segments of the Republican base into a single ticket, is the logical result of that Republican game. The “establishment” tassle-loafer crowd may not like the rawness of the TPP campaign, and may be desperate to “moderate” him with teleprompters, but his dominance of the party is a direct result of Republican politics over the years.

  5. posted by Jorge on

    This happens every so often: the left-establishment identifies a trend as binary when it is actually a gradient, although your quote has Clinton admit to her oversimplification.

    “To just be grossly generalistic”, I think this country’s civil rights establishment has let this country down. Yes, I am a sinner. And I think this idea of attacking people for a few random racial or gender offenses is extremely destructive. I think the BLM movement plays a role in tacitly supporting the assassination of police officers. I cannot refrain from thinking that the DREAM Act (and its state versions) are utter and absolute lunacy. I think the woman vote establishment is lying about the issue of equal pay. And you all already know what I think about the direction gay rights has been going.

    Being racist, sexist, xenophobic, heterosexist, and Islamophobic does not make one deplorable. That these deplorable trends exist at all is at least in part due to actual problems. The Obama administration is so scared of falling to even the appearance of Islamophobia and cissexism that it twists itself into knots with bizarre acts of speech and policy rather than helping to untangle the ways that prejudice and security interrelate. Because that would admit that it is a reasonable difference of opinion to think the group judgment is rational. The result is the Obama administration (and those that think like it) create gaping, bleeding, infected wounds.

    • posted by Jorge on

      Oh, and I meant to say this is where I stand as a Trump supporter.

    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      Oh, and I meant to say this is where I stand as a Trump supporter.

      Of course.

  6. posted by Kosh III on

    If SM wasn’t too chickenshix to leave his cushy Blue enclave he could visit the paradises of conservatism in Alabama etc. He’d find that half is an overstatement.
    And most of the economic policies that have given good manufacturing jobs to Communist China etc and which have eroded the middle-class are the GOP trickledown policies of the Reagan and Bush administrations. It was the Bush recession in 08 which nearly ruined the country.

  7. posted by TJ on

    Clinton comes off as a third way, patriotic centrist with balls of steel.

    Trump comes off as nine year old boy who stole his parents meth and likes to run around naked so people can see his tiny tatoo

  8. posted by Kosh III on

    Oops I meant to say that half is an UNDERstatement.

  9. posted by JohnInCA on

    Anyone remember the headlines during the Republican primary season about how more Republican voters believed that Cruz was born in the US then believed that Obama was born in the US?

    And what was Trump’s opening speech announcing his candidacy?

    Yeah… the problem with Clinton’s self-admittedly over-generalizing remark is that she was wrong on the amount.

  10. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    David Boaz writes that “it’s an indication that politicians like Clinton and Obama just can’t *imagine* any legitimate reason that people would vote Republican. …

    To spare the trouble of pointing it out, I’ll just quote the Boaz op-ed:

    And I hasten to point out that it isn’t just liberal Democrats who have this failing. Of course we see plenty of evidence that conservatives in politics and the media also have trouble understanding why anyone would vote Democratic. (Hint: if you spend decades ignoring, dismissing, or disparaging women, blacks, immigrants, Jews, and gays, you might find them and their friends voting against you.)

    And, just to make sure that I haven’t offended, I hasten to point out that “decades spen[t] ignoring, dismissing, or disparaging women, blacks, immigrants, Jews and gays” is not, repeat not, to suggest that the Republican politicians who did so were “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, you name it”. Quite the contrary. Its just what they do.

    • posted by Houndentenor on

      Here in deep Teabagistan it’s amazing what kind of racist, sexist, hoomophobic and otherwise deplorable things people say in front of me every day not realizing that a white guy might not agree with it. What Boaz writes is at least as true of the right as the left. I do, however, know why people vote Republican because they tell me all the time. I’m also aware of what nonsense their reasons are. They are almost always based on perceptions with no basis in reality. (Like how Republicans balance the budget even though not one has done so since Eisenhower and even that was only because of spending reductions at the end of the Korean War.)

    • posted by Jorge on

      I object anyway. Everyone is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and you name it. It is their stubborn self-righteousness while they blithely stomp on people’s feet that makes people dislike Republican politicians.

      And Democratic politicians.

    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      Everyone is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and you name it.

      Yeah, but most of us try not to act on it. The Alt-Right, on the other hand, positively revels in their racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, Islamaphobia, and you name it.

      • posted by Jorge on

        In public. Behind closed doors, maybe even most do. More than enough people still revel in the “guilty pleasures” of watching trash talk shows, trash reality shows, the current politics, I could go on at length.

        The only thing I really find strange is that so many people guess wrong that Houndentenor presents as informal rather than polite company.

        The internet, of course, allows anonymity, and perhaps people exposed to it every day for long period of time instead of once every few months or weeks begin to think what people do in such an area to be normal.

  11. posted by Kosh III on

    THIS is deplorable

    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/politics/53-gop-tenn-lawmakers-seek-to-intervene-in-knoxville-womens-divorce-3c3cfd1d-c2a9-292f-e053-0100007f-393141631.html

    • posted by JohnInCA on

      Hush now. Republican politicians, despite being elected by Republican voters, are not representative of Republican voters, and it’s unfair to insinuate otherwise.

      • posted by TJ on

        I see and hear – from personal experience – overtly racist and anti-Semitic and homophobic stuff from Republicans almost on a daily basis.

        When they are not telling me the birther b.s., they are telling me that oil companies should be immune from any liability and that gay people are corrupting kids.

        The crazies on the far left do exist, I not saying otherwise, but are rarely given much substantive power in the Democratic party (they do tend to do well at green party meetings, but I digress).

        This is a big problem I have with where the party of Lincoln has gone. Its not the party of Lincoln, Teddy or Ike.

      • posted by Tom Scharbach on

        I see and hear – from personal experience – overtly racist and anti-Semitic and homophobic stuff from Republicans almost on a daily basis.

        I think that most of us who live outside the urban blue enclaves hear this stuff all the time, too. It can get pretty raw. In the last week, I’ve been part of two conversations in which “nigger” was the word of choice for describing African-Americans.

        I don’t know about anybody else, but I think that the ugliness has increased in recent months, and I do believe that TPP’s candidacy has facilitated the ugliness. It isn’t that attitudes have changed, but that TPP’s candidacy seems to have “given permission” to be less circumspect.

        • posted by TJ on

          Back in 2008 my then bf had an Obama yard sign up. He lived in a heavily “red” community in Minnesota.

          One night. people put a bunch of racist monkey heads caritures and the like in his yard.

    • posted by Jorge on

      “The motion contends the legislators’ “unique and substantial interest in the legislative power and process will be impeded, impaired, and/or nullified” if courts interpret a state law “to apply to any persons other than a man and woman joined together as ‘husband’ and ‘wife.’ “”

      It’ll be a lot more “impeded, impaired, and/or nullified” if they interpret the state law not to apply to the couple, as then the Constitution would crush the state law to dust.

      “Knox County Circuit Court Judge Greg McMillan ruled in June that Erica Witt has no legal rights under Tennessee law to involvement with a daughter born to Sabrina Witt through artificial insemination, as reported by the News Sentinel at the time.”

      Oh, no, I’m stepping far, far away from this one.

      “Rather, this case involves a very important constitutional question: Does the U.S. Supreme Court’s Obergefell decision authorize judges to determine for state legislative bodies what policies it must have relative to custody issues in divorce proceedings?”

      …………

      Taken to its logical conclusion, the judge’s decision (which I am undecided on) could end up before the Supreme Court on its own merits. If so, that could lead to either Obergefell being expanded, or overturned. But I think that is unlikely.

    • posted by Tom Scharbach on

      Taken to its logical conclusion, the judge’s decision (which I am undecided on) could end up before the Supreme Court on its own merits.

      Although Republican lawmakers (read the 2016 Platform and read their consistent statements) and their conservative Christian legal allies like the Constitutional Government Defense Fund (in this instance) are determined to reverse Obergefell, the decision is unlikely to make it to SCOTUS.

      Most likely, the matter will be resolved in the state court system rather than the federal. If the state courts refuse to follow Obergefell, however, then the matter will move to the federal courts, ending with a decision consistent with Obergefell at the 6th Circuit.

      We’ll see.

      Whatever the outcome of this case, Jorge, it is critical that you vote for TPP&P to ensure that future Supreme Court Justices are committed to overturning Obergefell, Windsor and Lawrence. It is the only realistic hope you have for reversing marriage equality. Go for it, Pepe.

      • posted by Jorge on

        Whatever the outcome of this case, Jorge, it is critical that you vote for TPP&P to ensure that future Supreme Court Justices are committed to overturning Obergefell, Windsor and Lawrence. It is the only realistic hope you have for reversing marriage equality. Go for it, Pepe.

        The sodomy decision, the marriage decision, and marriage equality are three different issues that I have three very different positions on. You confuse means with ends.

        As far as I’m concerned, the legacy of Lawrence v. Texas has already been put in some jeopardy by the jailing of Kim Davis.

        In the climax of the novel Dune, the main character declares that the ability to destroy a thing is the complete control over it. Since such a situation almost never occurs in politics, electoral and political success are rarely necessary, or sufficient, to achieve one’s goals. The power of the citizen consists of having a tiny amount of control of a thing, or having a tiny amount of influence in its continued existence or destruction. What the citizen has complete control over, however, are timing, location, and the decision itself.

      • posted by Tom Scharbach on

        The sodomy decision, the marriage decision, and marriage equality are three different issues that I have three very different positions on. You confuse means with ends.

        what and how you think in your personal life is your own business. It is also irrelevant to the way in which the three cases developed and the constitutional underpinnings of each of the cases.

        The three cases are (as Justice Scalia pointed out (both in his dissents and in off-bench commentary) stem from the same constitutional prohibitions and imperatives, from the same reasoning, and are so closely related that if you knock out any of them, the others will fall.

        • posted by Jorge on

          Obergefell (and to a lesser extent that DOMA case) cast an entitlement as a constitutional right. That was something extraordinary, new, and indefensible. Lawrence was about the right to privacy against criminal prosecution. I think you misstate Scalia’s position that the three cases stem from the same constitutional principles–his point was that the Lawrence decision was a facade for no principle other than what seems like good social policy at the time.

          I cannot agree that marriage equality depends on the false choice of making entitlement reform a constitutional right or having no entitlement reform at all.

  12. posted by Tom Scharbach on

    Nay. This is what they think. … And they’ll never see the irony.

    Nor will you, apparently.

  13. posted by TJ on

    Dune, part of a series of books, is good fiction . The film/tv adaptions have been a mixed bag, but the books weave a nice bit of sci-fi.

    A few of the computer games based on the Dune franchise had some cool elements.

    Dune – beyond being fiction – doesn’t show democratic governments ,doesn’t deal with Constitutional law and using it to justify voting for any presidential candidate is probably a bonehead move.

    • posted by Jorge on

      I agree with you. I believe using Grain of Truth in Dune’s stead is justified and brilliant.

    • posted by Kosh III on

      Dune? Just finishing up reading Navigators of Dune, the final novel which they plan to write. It’s pertinent in a way in that one message Herbert intended to convey was the danger of joining state and religion into one. Just what the GOP/conservatives have labored mightily to do for years. See Blue laws, Judge Doofus in Alabama with the Decalogue, prayer in schools etc etc ad nauseum.

      • posted by Jorge on

        Blue laws and prayer in schools are not dangerous.

        More like vaguely sinister in the case of prayer in schools.

  14. posted by Kosh III on

    So now this Milo person is a certified whore.

    http://americablog.com/2016/09/bloomberg-breitbart-writer-milo-makes-money-gay-sugar-daddies.html

    “The claim that Yiannopoulos was given $20,000 after two nights of sex sounds as if it could run afoul of prostitution laws. As Yiannopoulos is on staff at Breitbart, and Breitbart is run by Trump’s campaign CEO, this allegation directly reflects on Donald Trump. If the head of Hillary Clinton’s campaign employed an alleged prostitute, we’d never hear the end of it from either the media or the Republicans.”

    Lock him up!

  15. posted by JohnInCA on

    “The moral clarity that drove the original civil-rights movement or the women’s movement has degenerated into a confused moral narcissism.”
    The 19th Amendment was first proposed in 1878 and didn’t pass until 1919, fourty-one years later.

    Similarly, while the Civil War (effectively) ended slavery, it was after literally hundreds of years of slavery in the Americas, and far longer in European history.

    If there’s any “moral clarity” there, it’s only in retrospect. Folks at the time considered them to be controversial issues, and got loud and obnoxious and hateful on all sides. Hell, people still do (don’t have to look that hard to find people saying women shouldn’t have the right to vote or that Jim Crow laws were good for everyone).

    Pretending that past civil rights struggles were clean and neat and never had people acting poorly is just fantasy.

    • posted by TJ on

      The Congressional debate over the Civil War Amendments is quite fascinating to read.

      The left-wing “radical” Republicans won the debate with two of the amendments, but lost with the 15 Amendment.

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  17. posted by Jorge on

    Since this is where the commentary on Milo Y is right now…

    could someone please explain to me how THIS is a puff piece?

    http://www.out.com/out-exclusives/2016/9/21/send-clown-internet-supervillain-milo-doesnt-care-you-hate-him

    I mean, what a difference having enough space to write an entire magazine article makes. It does not make him look good at all. I can’t believe an article made me sympathize with while decreasing my respect for Shaun King at the same time. And I’m not even finished reading it (it is a long read).

    What those “LGBT journalists” are really complaining about is that this article treats Milo fairly and tries to be objective. Objectivity and fairness make you work hard and think hard. It’s what makes you dig up skeletons like King who drop a bomb of victory.

    Are people really so insecure that when they’re presented with a golden opportunity to say “There it is! I told you so!”, they have to try to censor the entire message for fear of even one positive thing being said about the subject? Is Mr. Yiannapoulos actually right in his critique of victim culture. Not merely aligned with reality, not engaging in hyperbole, but dead on, 100% lady Ghostbuster really is a man correct?

    It’s hard to be a moderate in such polarized times.

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