A New York Times exposé is getting a lot of internet buzz. The topic is “manspreading,” the practice of men spreading their legs while sitting on public transportation. The articles begins by describing the issue as one of men taking up space beyond the confines of a single seat. But before long, we get to the heart of the matter: manspreading is described by aggrieved women as sexual harassment.
Here is a photo from the Times piece showing this insidious practice. Trigger warning, beware of the microaggressions you might experience from viewing this.
Many readers taking exception to the Times piece (Gawker reposted a range of comments) pointed out the obvious: men have testicles and it can be uncomfortable to sit with legs together.
The counter-response by some feminists has been, essentially, “too bad” (I’m putting it politely). Like Victorian prudes, propriety demands that legs only be crossed at the ankles.
The libertarian-minded writer Cathy Young puts things into perspective:
[F]eminist activists and commentators have tended to… promote women-as-victims, men-as-bad-guys narratives. … Trivial pursuit is not the path to equity. Feminism is now battling the alleged scourge of men who take up too much space on public transit by spreading their legs? Not only is this selective male-shaming (social media users quickly noted that female riders are guilty of different-but-equal sins), it is also a comically petty grievance that could suggests the aggrieved have no real issues. Half of successful advocacy is knowing to pick one’s battles.
Women, minorities, gay people, all people…there are plenty of real problems, yet our culture of grievance is obsessed with manufacturing offenses and then forcing others to repent these secular sins. it’s often about nothing more than who’s got the power to make others placate their wounded egos.
More. Craig123 comments: “The objections to ‘manspreading’ are part of the wider feminist critique of masculine ‘swagger,’ which has all to do with a hatred of masculinity and masculine expression. Gay progressives, these are your left-coalition allies. Enjoy your neuterdom.”
Furthermore. No, this isn’t some obscure point raised by fringe feminists. Via the local CBS affiliate, in Bill de Blasio’s New York MTA To Launch Campaign Aimed At Curbing ‘Manspreading’ on Public Transit.
Still more. And let us not invisibilize those other manifestations of patriarchy that have appeared in in the feminist lexicon of late, among these manslamming (“the sidewalk M.O. of men who remain apparently oblivious to the personal space of those around them”) and mansplaining (“explaining without regard to the fact that the explainee knows more than the explainer, often done by a man to a woman”).
22 Comments for “‘Manspreading’ and the Frequent Pettiness of Grievance Activism”
posted by craig123 on
The objections to “manspreading” are part of the wider feminist critique of masculine “swagger,” which has all to do with a hatred of masculinity and masculine expression. Gay progressives, these are your left-coalition allies. Enjoy your neuterdom.
posted by Houndentenor on
*eyeroll* No, this is part of a wider conversation about people taking up too much space on subway seats. Earlier campaigns focused on people who plopped their backpacks down on the seat next to them. No one is being emasculated except for a few men who think they get to take up as much room as they want. When I see the ad I realize that a lot of men do exactly what is described (and I probably did too sometimes). I can also see how it can be annoying when someone takes up too much space and crowds you. If you’ve never ridden the subway I’m not sure you can understand just how annoying such behavior can become when dealing with it repeatedly. I have yelled at people for blocking the doors and I’m sure the manspreading is just as annoying. People in NYC are often crowded into small spaces with strangers and it’s maddening when people don’t respect each others’ space.
posted by marco on
At my gym, some of the women complained that men grunting while lifting weights was offensive, so we now have a no-grunting policy. Then they complained about men staring at them while they worked out, so now we have a no staring at women policy. It never ends.
posted by Houndentenor on
Did anyone bother to explain to them WHY people (not just men) grunt when living heavy weights? (Or do they even know?) Also, was it a widespread complaint or just one idiot because if that’s all it takes, then we’re in trouble because there’s always someone complaining about something (often something no one else gives a shit about.
posted by Jim Michaud on
Groan. I HATE this mentality. This is the same outlook that insists on spelling “women” as “womyn” and produced that snarky bumper sticker: GROW YOUR OWN DOPE-PLANT A MAN. Peevish attitudes like this will get feminists nowhere. Same with the crazy soc cons that insists gays are readying the box cars to haul them off to reeducation camps.
posted by Jamie O'Neill on
Here’s an idea. If you’re a pro-feminist male, don’t do things that would upset women. If, however, you’re an anti-feminist male, comport yourself such that it would make women happy – in other words, try not upset them. I don’t know what kind of male I am, but, in general, I try not to upset people. Often this requires me not to do things in a shared space that I would happily do at home.
posted by Lori Heine on
“If you’re a pro-feminist male, don’t do things that would upset women.”
The question is, how–from one moment to the next–could you possibly be sure what that was?
I’m endlessly amused at the growing list of things that are supposed to make me upset. I thought women were supposed to be moving forward–not back. We’ve return to the days of Aunt Pittypat and the smelling-salts.
Sometimes men do annoying things. But feminists actually desensitize them. Other women who hear these endless harangues are less likely to speak up even when it would be reasonable. This is going to result in nothing but more of the sort of Neanderthal behavior the feminists are on a crusade to eliminate.
Being bludgeoned over the head with a blunt object, perpetually, would have that effect on anybody. Feminist rage has become a very blunt object indeed.
posted by Houndentenor on
Or a better idea, how about if conservatives stop quote-mining from far right people that no liberal actually pays any attention to. yes, there are nutty people on both the left and the right. The difference is that the nuts on the right actually have important positions in the party. How interesting that this is what Stephen wants to talk about today instead of the new majority whip’s speech before a white supremacist group. No, distract us with trivia about people we’ve never heard of talking about an issue in a city where most of us don’t live. Never mind that racist high up in the House ranks. No sir. Nothing to see there!
posted by clayton on
I will see your Scalise and raise you a Gohmert. Louis Gohmert is guying to depose Boehner and take over as House Speaker. Scalise and Gohmert have far more power to do far more damage than a few women complaining about man-spreading. Let’s talk about that.
posted by Tom Scharbach on
How interesting that this is what Stephen wants to talk about today instead of the new majority whip’s speech before a white supremacist group.
It is much worse than just the speech.
Scalese has longstanding, close ties with David Duke, who, in addition to being a racist bastard, is a major-league anti-Semite.
The nature and extent of Scalese’s ties with Duke are coming to light in recent days, and more will come to light.
I don’t know any of the members of the Republican Jewish Coalition, but I can’t help but believe that electing a man like Scalese to the leadership position formerly held by Eric Cantor, the lone Jewish Republican in the House or Senate until the Tea Party blew him away in a Republican primary, will go unnoticed.
Scalese will be gone in a week, and good riddance to him.
posted by Houndentenor on
I lived in nyc for 15 years and rode the subway almost every day. Manspreading is kind of annoying but nothing compared to the idiots who stand in the door making it difficult to impossible to get on and off the trains at stops. Or just as bad the people who insist on trying to get on to crowded trains before letting people get off. Or the people on stairs not knowing that if everyone stayed to their left we wouldn’t bump into each other.
posted by James in Chicago on
A few overwrought feminists complaining that men sit with their legs too far apart. A few Christian preachers advocating that gay people be put to death. Yep, both sides do it!
posted by Tom Scharbach on
More. Craig123 comments: “The objections to ‘manspreading’ are part of the wider feminist critique of masculine ‘swagger,’ which has all to do with a hatred of masculinity and masculine expression. Gay progressives, these are your left-coalition allies. Enjoy your neuterdom.”
I thought this was a humor post until Stephen added this “More”; then I realized that it was intended to be serious. How ironic that Stephen’s grievance about the “culture of grievance” turns into an airing of Craig’s grievances about man-hating women and gay progressives, with Stephen cheering from the sidelines.
posted by craig123 on
I wonder if there is any demand that left-feminists could make, no matter how petty or obnoxious or mean-spirited, that Tom Scharbach wouldn’t jump to defend. It would be an interesting experiment, but then, we all know the answer already, don’t we.
posted by Tom Scharbach on
You want to point to anything in my comment that suggests that I think that the “feminists” are right on this issue?
Feel free. But stick to what I actually said, not the feverish machinations of your rich fantasy life.
I’ll give you some ammunition to work with, though, by commenting further:
The reason I thought that Stephen’s post was a humor post is because the complaint about “manspreading” was so ridiculous, right up there where South Dakota’s “Don’t Jerk and Drive” campaign. Who in the hell could take “manspreading” seriously as an issue?
I say that with a caveat, though. I agree with Tom Jefferson JIII, Jamie O’Neill, Houndentenor and others who have expressed the obvious point that people hoping to along with strangers in a crowded urban setting should exercise some constraint in their behavior in public.
It is not impossible for men (at least those with standard-issue balls the size of walnuts) to keep their legs reasonably together in a crowded subway. It is not impossible for women to refrain from spreading out the day’s shopping all over the floor. It is not impossible for anyone to speak softly into a cellphone instead of sharing their conversations with 50 captives. It is not impossible for teenagers to shut the fuck up and behave themselves. And so on.
And “masculine expression” has nothing to do with it. Common courtesy is, well, common courtesy, and I remember a time when it was drilled into children to take others into consideration. Men have no more business acting like spoiled children than anyone else.
posted by Houndentenor on
Today Jeb Bush doubles down on the position that gay rights should be up for a local/state vote. So much for Republicans moving past these issues in 2016.
posted by tom Jefferson 3rd on
1. If someone – male or female – wears clothing that is very tight or very sexy/slut I can maybe see why that offends people. But not much more then a fashion police blog or tweet ( I.e. “kids today with their music and jeans”)
Taking Up more then one seat can be A problem on bus and if u ride a bus obviously a regular basis you may know what that is like.
If a rider is pregnant, nursing or disabled I can see why they may need more then one …
Ototherwise riders should try to be considerate and not a space hog.
posted by Tom Scharbach on
JEB clarified his statement today:
posted by Houndentenor on
It’s a hilarious statement and shows just how out of touch Jeb is with both sides of this issue. Respect each other? There is no respect for gay people and what it means when gay couples aren’t legally married and one of them is sick or worse has just died. But hey that’s the same as not wanting to bake a cake, right?
I’ll say this again, if the right wants to offer full marriage equality in exchange for a bill so they don’t have to bake cakes or take pictures, that would have been a good deal. I don’t have to worry about whether or not other gay people would find such a bargain acceptable because it’s not going to happen. Respect? That’s hilarious. Does he actually spend any time with social conservatives? Obviously not.
posted by tom Jefferson 3rd on
Also I doubt that this issue preoccupies the daily struggle of too many women or men.
All Riders should try be considerate .
A man or woman using two seats can be a problem, obviously. Less so on a bus with many available seats.
Most feminist women I know Are not opposed to all things masculine.
They would rather not be abused Or beaten or harassed, just so some Guy can think of himself as a great, big, manly man.
Meanwhile…..big name politician meets with KKK and…I suspect the typical white supremacist longs to have all sorts of “changes” made regarding bus seats
posted by Tom Scharbach on
Furthermore. No, this isn’t some obscure point raised by fringe feminists. Via CBS/NewYork, MTA To Launch Campaign Aimed At Curbing ‘Manspreading’ On Public Transit.
Okay, got it. The “manspreading” issue has to do with rude assholes — mostly men — taking up more than their share of the seating space on the subways, according to the article you cited. It has nothing to do with out-of-control, man-hating feminists “manufacturing grievances” after all.
You and Craig123 need to get your story straight, it seems to me.
posted by Jorge on
No, this isn’t some obscure point raised by fringe feminists. Via CBS/NewYork, MTA To Launch Campaign Aimed At Curbing ‘Manspreading’ On Public Transit.
Taking up more than one seat is a violation of the MTA’s rules and can get you fined. If a flagrant violation of the rules has caused a public scandal, the MTA must respond to it.
Not everyone “manspreads” and for this reason I agree far more with the feminists’ accusations over why people do it than with the masculists’ defenses. However, even as someone who’s 5’6″ and 160 lbs on a good month, my legs do not fit a subway seat unless I’m crossing them at the ankles. A 90 degree angle is ridiculous, but I need at least something like a 30 degree angle. Having someone a little too wide squeeze in on the space next to me on a subways is very uncomfortable.