In this video, MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell gives a long ode to the value of Ron Paul as the most important voice for marriage equality because he speaks to Republicans and conservatives (he chooses to take a positive view of Paul’s somewhat confusing language).
Also, from Politico: Newly declared GOP presidential candidate Jon Huntsman’s fundraising is targeting gay Republicans, based on his support for civil unions.
Yes, it’s still likely the GOP ticket will be Romney/Bachmann in 2012, but those who say there is no hope for changing the GOP are defeatists helping to perpetuate the status quo.
14 Comments for “Hints of Change”
posted by Tom on
Yes, it’s still likely the GOP ticket will be Romney/Bachmann in 2012, but those who say there is no hope for changing the GOP are defeatists helping to perpetuate the status quo.
I suppose that there are gays and lesbians who want “to perpetuate the status quo” but I’m not one of them.
The status quo (in which the Republican Party can be counted on to oppose any and all legal rights for gays and lesbians) sucks, and any sensible person wants that to change. It will change, too, eventually.
Huntsman got it right in a 2009 interview with Politico:
The question is whether the status quo can change more quickly, and what it will take to change it more quickly. My view is that the status quo will change more quickly if and only if conservative gays and lesbians begin to do what liberal gays and lesbians began to do thirty years ago — get active in the party at the local, state and national levels, and start pushing — hard — for change.
I don’t, by any means, think that there is “no hope”, but I have an understanding about the work involved and how much work it will be, because I helped do the work in the Democratic Party.
Here’s a simple truth: Nothing’s going to change any time soon in the Republican Party if conservative gays and lesbians don’t start standing up for themselves and demanding change, withholding time, talent and money from candidates who oppose “equal means equal”.
Complaining that HRC isn’t doing enough to promote change within the Republican Party while letting GOProud get away with schoolgirl gushing over the candidates who debated in New Hampshire, unchallenged, isn’t going to cut it.
posted by BobN on
GOProud only seems to gush about the “mean girls”.
posted by esurience on
Ron Paul opposes marriage equality. He does not support any practical solution to getting gay and lesbian people equal treatment under the law with respect to marriage.
He also explicitly supports DOMA.
posted by Houndentenor on
Paul did vote for the DOMA repeal, though.
The true conservative voice for gay marriage is Ted Olson.
posted by esurience on
I assume you mean Ron Paul voted to repeal DADT (he did indeed), rather than DOMA. Ron Paul suports DOMA.
posted by Houndentenor on
Oops. Yes, I meant DADT. Thanks for catching that.
posted by esurience on
I just found a statement from Ron Paul I hadn’t seen before:
http://theiowarepublican.com/home/2011/02/24/ron-paul-condemns-obama%E2%80%99s-decision-to-abandon-doma/
“Like the majority of Iowans, I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman and must be protected.”
“I have also cosponsored the Marriage Protection Act, which would remove challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from the jurisdiction of the federal courts.”
Ron Paul opposes marriage equality. He doesn’t just oppose it in a libertarian sense (which yes, is opposing it because the libertarian position is impractical), he opposes it in every way one can oppose it.
Please stop mis-reporting his position.
posted by another steve on
Would it be MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell who is misreporting Paul’s position, in that case?
posted by BobN on
“he chooses to take a positive view of Paul’s somewhat confusing language”
Lawrence O’Donnell is one of the many pretty, but stupid, news-readers to whom we give waaaay too much power and influence in this country.
Alternative explanation for this “ode”: Lawrence O’Donnell, just like many “marriage libertarians”, has onerous alimony liabilities.
posted by Lord Gaga on
You think Lawrence O’Donnell is pretty? Well, I don’t know what the heck your last paragraph means, but your judgment was already flawed.
posted by BobN on
Someone, at some point, thought he was pretty enough to give him a career in “news” broadcasting.
I notice you didn’t quibble with my characterization of him as stupid.
posted by LesGS on
I have no doubt that someday the GOP will no longer be fighting against equal marriage rights for LGBT citizens. But if we use DADT as a possible measuring stick, when with 75+% of Americans supporting its repeal and the GOP fighting to preserve it, they will always be trailing along behind the public on civil rights issues.
There are (Olson) and may some day be more stand-out Republican/conservative exceptions to this, but as a body, they will never be leaders in working for marriage equality. They may quit fighting against it someday, but if the DADT repeal fight is any kind of indicator, it will be when well over 70% of Americans are on our side already.
I do agree that we should continue to work with and reach out to Republican representatives, because we do need those exceptions to get our rights sooner rather than later. But I don’t think we can ever expect leadership on our behalf from the Republican party.
posted by Tom on
I do agree that we should continue to work with and reach out to Republican representatives, because we do need those exceptions to get our rights sooner rather than later. But I don’t think we can ever expect leadership on our behalf from the Republican party.
Leadership from the Republican Party we can do without. We don’t get leadership from the Democratic Party, either. We get what we push the Democrats into, what we’ve made politically possible for them to do, and what we demand that they do.
To the extent that there has been leadership in the gay rights movement, it has come from the ground up, fueled by individual acts of political and personal courage, often in contravention of the carefully calibrated strategies of the so-called “leadership” of our movement. Sometimes, that leadership comes from completely unexpected directions, like Ted Olson’s principled decision that it was time to challenge Prop 8, against all conventional wisdom and in contravention of the “state-by-state” legal strategy of the ACLU, Lambda Legal and the rest of the so-called “leadership”.
With respect to the Republican Party, we don’t need leadership from thrm any more than we’ve needed leadership from the Democratic Party. The Republican Party will always be a day late and a dollar short, just like the Democratic Party. Why should we expect more from the Republican Party than from the Democratic Party? The thing we need from the Republican Party is to get just a day late and a dollar short.
What we need from the Republican Party is an end to massive resistance, a willingness to move forward in pace with the American people, a willingness to vote for legislation when the American people are, say, 60% in favor, instead of mindlessly fighting legislation (like DADT) even when the American people support the legislation in overwhelming numbers.
That, it seems to me, is an achievable goal if conservative gays and lesbians get to work.
posted by Mark F. on
I take Ron Paul’s statement to mean that he thinks each state should be allowed to define marriage for itself. It’s not totally clear to me whether or not he believes the Federal government should recognize same sex marriages or not. Ron Paul has opposed a Federal Marriage Amendment and the continuation of DADT, to his great credit.