In November, businessman Jared Polis (D-Colo.) became the first openly gay man elected to the House as a freshman. But his op-ed in Wednesday's Wall Street Journal is likely to give many of his party's "progressives" fits. Polis says a better way to help revive the U.S. auto industry is to rely on private funding by cutting capital gains taxes for car makers, and that "if it works in this particular case to incentivize additional risk-taking through a capital-gains tax exemption, it may indeed work in other cases or, I dare say, across the entire U.S. economy." He goes on to note that "Any pretension of a government bailout [of auto makers] being a good deal for taxpayers should be abandoned for the insincere (or perhaps ignorant) rhetoric that it is."
He's the anti-Barney Frank!
27 Comments for “Hurrah for Jared Polis!”
posted by Attmay on
The big 3 are propped up corpses. The UAW (also known as United Against Working) were like a parasite that killed its host and won’t be able to find food. Who’s to say that a Japanese, German, or other foreign automaker won’t simply buy up the factories (if Chinese companies like FAW or Dongfeng wanted to get a foothold in the US market, now is the time) and tell the UAW to go jump off the Great Wall.
They stopped making TV sets in this country, and the world kept turning.
If our economy is killed they need to take in Barney Frank for fingerprints.
posted by Rob on
Here’s a better solution: Let Big Oil bail them out with their ‘record profits.’ They have afterall a symbiotic relationship.
posted by Attmay on
Record profits? I’m assuming your comment is in jest. Have you seen the price of oil lately?
posted by Bobby on
Rob, if you mess with big oil, who do you think big oil messes with? Us! We all need oil, I’m getting tired of people like Donald Trump saying that we need a gas tax hike to a gallon never sells for less than whatever amount the powers that be deem reasonable.
I make $45,000 a year, I cannot afford to have the rich mess with big oil while I’m struggling to pay my bills.
I’m also against the bailout. Let capitalism dictate who succeeds and who fails!
posted by TS on
Bobby says “Let capitalism dictate who succeeds and who fails!”
People will pay the price for it though. I hate to imagine that maintaining a theoretical model of an abstraction (a free market economy for example) would lead to human suffering. I too am opposed to the bailout, but there must be centrally organized aid and resources available for needy people. I’m sorry but nobody should be malnourished or homeless whatever their circumstances and responsibilities. Nobody should be without access to things they and their dependants need to have a good life and a wealth of opportunities to succeed because the free market can’t get its act together.
Whatever personal reservations you may have about welfare (all of which I believe can be resolved by reform and un-dichotomization), surely you recognize that personal welfare is far less abhorrent and absurd than corporate welfare.
posted by Bobby on
“People will pay the price for it though.”
—People lose jobs in socialists countries to. Or they join unions which makes almost impossible for them to get fired, but it also becomes almost impossible to get promoted.
“here must be centrally organized aid and resources available for needy people. ”
—Who defines needy? And how much is it gonna cost me? I need to pay my mortgage, I need to pay my credit card bill. Perhaps you can give me a bailout.
“personal welfare is far less abhorrent and absurd than corporate welfare.”
—I supported Bill Clinton when he signed the republican-inspired welfare reform bill. I don’t support people going on welfare for 10 years, or single-mothers that have 10 kids to get more money from the government, or free healthcare. And I hate welfare for corporations. You can blame it on stupid RINOS that are betraying republican principles. In fact, if McCain had not supported the financial bailout, maybe he would have won the election. But when people have a choice between a liberal democrat and a RINO, they always pick the liberal democrat.
TS, when was the last time the government did something for you? JFK was wrong, we should be asking what can our country do for us, because when you do, you’ll realize your country does NOTHING for you other than give you the freedoms to do things for yourself.
posted by TS on
Bobby, the government employs my dad, without whose income I would have been unable to attend college. That is the somewhat absurd reality of the world in a contemporaty bloated democracy. The government directly employs probably up to 10% of the working people in the US, perhaps 33% probably depend directly upon government contracting and subcontracting for their jobs, and I estimate 75% of economic activity would come to a halt if the government abruptly cut itself down to the size it needs to be to function. That’s in the short term, but most lower-income people really can’s survive a short term meltdown.
It’s really all a disguised form of corporate welfare. The government spends many billion each year to “develop” mostly redundant defense equipment, and hands out money like candy to artists, scientists, schools, etc. These intrustions are like serial layers of support beams on a building. There’s no doubt the building would fall without them; the question is whether it would have fallen anyway or has been weakened by bearing the weight of too many support beams.
I personally think pure socialism or pure free market would furnish an economy that serves human well-being and quality of life better than the ugly mishmash we have now. I also think lots of wonderful, amazingly intelligent and capable people (in some cases, people I know) who would be addicted, criminal, or dead if it weren’t for charity of some kind. And centrally organized charity is more fair and less wasteful than individual efforts. It may cost you, but you can afford it (progressive taxation insures that). And the benefit you gain is that if something out of your control should happen, you have a safety line to help you climb back up.
The “safety line mentality” is a very real concern. But I think a combination of welfare reform and education can alleviate that.
posted by Tommy on
“Who defines needy? And how much is it gonna cost me? I need to pay my mortgage, I need to pay my credit card bill. Perhaps you can give me a bailout.”
Exactly! Bail out needy people, not failed corporations.
posted by Bobby on
Hey TS,
Not everyone works for the government, your dad’s example is not a good one, your dad is doing something for the government so the government pays him back. He’s not getting something for noting.
“I estimate 75% of economic activity would come to a halt if the government abruptly cut itself down to the size it needs to be to function.”
—I doubt it, the government requires contractors to bid for projects, which they get either by bidding low or because they know somebody. Most businesses operate without government help. In fact, many people choose not to do business with the government because of all the complications it entails.
“The government spends many billion each year to “develop” mostly redundant defense equipment,”
—The military is one of the few things the government can do for us. Every country needs a strong military. We don’t want to end like Tibet. Look at the poor Dalai Lama, he’s not even asking the chinese to get out anymore.
“and hands out money like candy to artists, scientists, schools, etc.”
—That’s why I advocate for lower taxes, the less money they get, the less money they can waste.
“I also think lots of wonderful, amazingly intelligent and capable people (in some cases, people I know) who would be addicted, criminal, or dead if it weren’t for charity of some kind.”
—Private charities get billions in private donations. The Salvation Army has way more shelters than the federal government. The Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, and millions of NGO’s have done more for people than any government agency.
“And centrally organized charity is more fair and less wasteful than individual efforts.”
—-Look at New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, all the billions the government donated where wasted. Those new houses you see where built by private charities. Centralized charity is always bad, look at the former Soviet Union, people had to stand in lines for hours to get bread, toilet paper, etc. Why would a government official care if they have enough stock? Where’s their incentives? It’s like public libraries vs. Barnes & Noble. The public library is dark, dreary, depressing, full of rules, and doesn’t always stock the products people want. Barnes & Noble is happy, lively, people are not afraid to talk, and the workers are happy to serve you.
“It may cost you, but you can afford it (progressive taxation insures that).”
—OK, tell me what should be my tax rate then?
“But I think a combination of welfare reform and education can alleviate that.”
—By education you mean sending poor people to college? If that happens, who’s gonna drive our trucks, fix our cars, work as plumbers, electritians, and do all those blue collar professions that help all of us? College for everyone isn’t the answer.
posted by TS on
Ah, the Salvation Army. I anticipated you’d mention them. Just hearing their name is enough to suggest it, but examining their mission statement is a clear illustration. “The Salvation Army, an international movement, is an evangelical part of the universal Christian Church. Its message is based on the Bible. Its ministry is motivated by the love of God. Its mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination.” That “without discrimination was recently tossed on there to hop on the civil rights boat, and to try to soften the blow: SA is a Christian Dominionist organization. And a creepy one at that… did you know it recently fired one of its “commanders” because he married a Salvation Army non-officer? What are they trying to keep inside?
And as for the nation’s largest secular charity, the United Way, its wastefulness is well-known. Basically, it wheedles and goads school children for their lunch money and businesses for salary auto-donations, collects all the money in a big pile, takes a 10% cut to sustain its bloated self, and then doles out the rest to various smaller charities.
“Not everyone works for the government, your dad’s example is not a good one, your dad is doing something for the government so the government pays him back. He’s not getting something for noting.” This misunderstands my point. Of course not everyone words for the government, but a heck of a lot of them do. The truth is, if the government were functioning efficiently, it wouldn’t need my dad or 7/10 of his coworkers. It’s well-disguised charity.
“By education you mean sending poor people to college? If that happens, who’s gonna drive our trucks, fix our cars, work as plumbers, electritians, and do all those blue collar professions that help all of us? College for everyone isn’t the answer.” College for everyone is a thorny issue indeed. It brings up serious issues of social stratification. And it’s not what I meant. I meant better public education that infuses people not just with worthless facts about chemistry, history and math (those are good things but their usefulness is limited to many people) but also a civic sense of ethics, morals (just the basic, noncontroversial kind), and reason. By welfare reform, I mean a system that rewards people for rising up rather than staying down. Perhaps benefits that gradually fall away over the years if no improvement is documented until they are enough only for food, shelter, and utilities. Perhaps a learning disabled credit that provides assistance for learning disabled children, a bigger reward for high scholastic achievement and the highest reward for achievement despite disabilities. Perhaps even a 2-tiered system: 1) a little money a month with no questions asked vs. 2) all the money you need if you submit to random drug tests, encourage your children to do well in school, and meet other standards that show you are striving to be the best you can be.
The private sector can neither raise enough money to do this nor avoid budgetary chaos in which consistency and fairness are unattainable goals. The government obviously struggles to do so as well, but in principle, that’s what it should be doing.
posted by TS on
Where’s their incentives? It’s like public libraries vs. Barnes & Noble. The public library is dark, dreary, depressing, full of rules, and doesn’t always stock the products people want. Barnes & Noble is happy, lively, people are not afraid to talk, and the workers are happy to serve you.”
I disagree. First, at the public library I am more likely to find the boring, objective, non-commercial types of imformation I need. Barnes and Noble stocks what sells, which is party good and partly trash. Second, the wage slave lackeys behind the desks fall into two categories: the helpful, friendly ones that are making the most of it and enjoying what they do, and the ones that aren’t even trying. They are found in about equal ratios at both places.
posted by Doug on
Can someone explain to me how reducing the Capital Gains tax is going to help GM. With all their losses over the past few years GM hasn’t paid a cent in taxes and won’t for the foreseeable future. As far as I can tell you could eliminate the Capital Gains tax and it wouldn’t do a thing to help the auto industry.
posted by Bobby on
TS, the Salvation Army might be homophobic, but to a homeless person that doesn’t matter. They just want shelter and food. Even Obama supports faith-based ministries because of all the good work they do.
“What are they trying to keep inside?”
—Scientologists often marry scientologists, muslims often marry muslims, jews often marry jews, what are they trying to keep inside? Nothing. The Salvation Army simply wants to prevent outside influences from disrupting their work.
“Basically, it wheedles and goads school children for their lunch money and businesses for salary auto-donations, collects all the money in a big pile, takes a 10% cut to sustain its bloated self, and then doles out the rest to various smaller charities.”
—Not all private charities are efficient, and some are scams. But at least I have a choice when it comes to giving them money. With the government, you have no choice.
“Of course not everyone words for the government, but a heck of a lot of them do. The truth is, if the government were functioning efficiently, it wouldn’t need my dad or 7/10 of his coworkers. It’s well-disguised charity.”
—I am less worried about them than I’m worried about the Farm Bill and other pork barrel spending.
“By welfare reform, I mean a system that rewards people for rising up rather than staying down. Perhaps benefits that gradually fall away over the years if no improvement is documented until they are enough only for food, shelter, and utilities.”
—If someone gets food, shelter and utilities forever, what’s the incentive to find a job? In Israel they have optional communities called Kibbutz, everyone gets food, shelter and utilities but everyone also has to work very long hours to pay for that. Today, kitbbutz are having problems attracting residents, the young are leaving in droves. Why? Because young people want a sense of individual accomplishment rather than collective accomplishment. Helping yourself is more appealing than helping your community.
“Perhaps a learning disabled credit that provides assistance for learning disabled children,”
—Why? It’s not my fault that some people are born with ADD. I used to have ADD myself, it’s a personal problem, not a collective one.
“The private sector can neither raise enough money to do this nor avoid budgetary chaos in which consistency and fairness are unattainable goals.”
—The private sector doesn’t always do well, they freeze salaries, their sales go up and down. They have enough problems as it is, they don’t need the added burden of helping society.
posted by dalea on
Bobby sez: ‘TS, the Salvation Army might be homophobic, but to a homeless person that doesn’t matter. They just want shelter and food. ‘
Are you aware that gay men and lesbians have been thrown out of shelters by the SA. Woken up and sent out into the Chicago winter.
As usual, Bobby has a list of anecdotes, circa 1980, and no fact or figures. Art grants are ‘given out like candy’. People keep having children to increase their welfare payments. Not one fact or reference in the whole rant. And conservatives wonder why they are losing market share.
posted by LCRW on
Once Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emmanuel sink their meat hooks into Polis, he will be matching in lockstep with them. Power over principle.
posted by Bobby on
“Are you aware that gay men and lesbians have been thrown out of shelters by the SA. Woken up and sent out into the Chicago winter.”
—It’s a private organization, they can do what they want. Whenever you get charity, you’re at the mercy of someone else.
“Art grants are ‘given out like candy’.”
—Ever heard of “piss christ.” That “artwork” consist on a crucifix inside a giant vat of urine. It was done by a gay artist in the 1980s, and paid by the US taxpayer. There are more examples here
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer
“And conservatives wonder why they are losing market share.”
—We’re not losing the market share, most Americans are opposed to the auto bailout, that should tell you something. The people don’t want San Francisco values, they don’t want homeless people getting $300 a month like it happens in Santa Monica, they don’t want JROTC to be banned from public schools, they don’t want companies to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, and from the near bankrupcies of most liberal newspapers including your precious grey lady, they obviously don’t want liberal propaganda.
St. Obama the Socialist Savior didn’t win by much, just remember that.
posted by Throbert McGee on
Are you aware that gay men and lesbians have been thrown out of shelters by the SA. Woken up and sent out into the Chicago winter.
I am aware that the Salvation Army discriminates against gay men and lesbians as employees, but I’d never before heard that they refuse charitable assistance to gay men and lesbians.
And if dalea is able to provide a supporting citation for that claim, I will be most astounded.
posted by Throbert McGee on
And just to clarify, I’m not saying that dalea just made up that story about the Salvation Army kicking gays out into the cold — I’m suggesting, instead, that dalea is severely misremembering the details of a story that had something vaguely to do with the Salvation Army discriminating against gay people.
posted by dalea on
Well, here are some examples:
http://hpn.asu.edu/archives/2004-June/008202.html
http://www.rslevinson.com/gaylesissues/features/collect/newsnotes/bl_20050906_katrina_no_salvation.htm
‘If you’re gay, homeless and/or married, don’t expect help from the Salvation Army. There’s a good possibility that you will have to be straight to get a bowl of soup, or a place to hang your hat, or just a helping hand. Just ask Peggy Neff.’
http://www.365gay.com/features/these-kids-are-invisible-an-lgbt-youth-shelter-in-words-and-pictures/
http://hpn.asu.edu/archives/2004-June/008201.html
‘> I suspect the situation is more complicated than it seems:
>
> See, the city contracts with Salvation Army for shelter services, eg,
> pays them to shelter people. The city has a regulation in its contracts
> that says non discrimination in partner benefits–gay or straight. So,
> you wanna do business with the city, you gotta give partners
> benefits, whether they be gay, straight, unmarried, domestic partners,
> whatever. Salvation Army sez: Hey–this violates our religious concepts,
> so we are gonna turn the contract back to the city–and since they aint
> gonna pay for the shelter, we got to shut it down.’
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/253295/lesbian_woman_denied_space_in_chicago.html
‘A DHS employee attempted to help Ms. Wang by calling local shelters in the hopes of finding one with bed space available. According to the American Civil Liberties Union, the DHS employee reportedly found space for Ms. Wang at the New Life shelter in Chicago until an employee of the shelter discovered that Ms. Wang was a lesbian. The employee gleaned the information from Ms. Wang when she asked Ms. Wang about the events leading to her homelessness. The employee then told Ms. Wang that there was no bed space available for her, despite the earlier claim that space was available.’
The Salvation Army takes taxpayer money and discriminates against gay people.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Notice how the leftist dalea’s smears work.
Exact quote:
If she had lost her house would the Salvation Army have barred Heff from seeking shelter at the Salvation Army just because she was gay and had a gay partner?
But dalea states based on this that she WAS thrown out of the shelter, despite the clear “IF” leading off the statement.
Meanwhile, Dalea cites the New Life shelter, which isn’t even run by the Salvation Army, and attempts to smear the Salvation Army based on that.
Finally, the letter cited states that the Salvation Army is shutting down shelters because they are refusing taxpayer dollars, directly contrary to what Dalea is claiming.
Is it not obvious by now that Dalea is simply trying to smear the Salvation Army, and is making all sorts of claims based on unrelated information to do it?
Keep in mind that gays and lesbians like dalea urinate on, vomit on, and throw feces at people who disagree with them and consider this normal and acceptable behavior. Why should shelters be forced to take people who do this anyway?
posted by dalea on
More:
http://www.q-notes.com/editorial/editorsnote_120305.html
‘Former actress-turned-director Amanda Bearse (?Married With Children?), an out and proud lesbian, told me about her experiences with Salvation Army when she was a homeless teenager living in Atlanta.
? I had a girlfriend,? she recalled in the 1995 interview. ?And we were both on the street ? at the time trying to stay at this Salvation Army shelter. When they found out about us, they seperated us. Either we had to stay away from each other or leave the shelter.?’
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2007/05/how_would_jesus.html
‘After reading today?s story in the Tribune about a lesbian turned away from a Christian homeless shelter in Rogers Park I wondered if the situation is any better a century later.
Matt O?Connor?s story discusses a lawsuit filed Monday by the Illinois chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union on behalf of a woman who alleges she was denied shelter in November because she revealed her sexual orientation. The shelter has apologized but says it was a clerical error that led staffers to turn her away.’
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/01/compassion_check.html
‘Both tell me that their experiences in religious shelters was terrible. In particular, anything run by the Salvation Army. They were constantly taunted for not being Christian. Several times they were told they must participate in Christian practices before they would be given food or lodging.
Several of my gay friends that have fallen on hard times in years past tell me that they were taunted and badgered by the Salvation Army staff and volunteers when it became known that they were gay.’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104×2818988
Now, how about some documentation on the ‘candy like grants’ to artists?
posted by dalea on
Do the proprietors of this site seriously believe that their lack of moderating comments puts IGF in a good light?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
“Either we had to stay away from each other or leave the shelter.?
And again, dalea says that being told to follow the rules constitutes being “thrown out”.
After reading today?s story in the Tribune about a lesbian turned away from a Christian homeless shelter in Rogers Park
And again, dalea tries to blame the Salvation Army for a shelter that it does not run.
Several of my gay friends that have fallen on hard times in years past tell me that they were taunted and badgered by the Salvation Army staff and volunteers when it became known that they were gay.’
Ah yes, the old, “I heard from my friends” comment, not at all part of the actual referenced story, and written by an anonymous individual who clearly wanted to smear and attack religious people.
Keep in mind that gays and lesbians like dalea urinate on, vomit on, and throw feces at people who disagree with them and consider this normal and acceptable behavior. Why should shelters be forced to take people who do this anyway?
posted by Bobby on
“Do the proprietors of this site seriously believe that their lack of moderating comments puts IGF in a good light?”
—It’s called free speech, Dalea. It is an independent gay forum, that means voices from the right and the left get to speak.
posted by avee on
Unless the Salvation Army (or whoever) is receiving taxpayer money to run the shelter, then they get to make the rules on how people they invite into their space get to behave. Unless you’d like the state to force you to let whoever into your living room, where they can do whatever they please.
posted by Jim on
Off-topic aside: If Bobby is in fact a homosexual, surely he is the most self-hating individual in history.
I also make little money but do not feel in the grip of Big Oil because I DO NOT DRIVE. Walk, people. You’re purportedly conservative on this site: well, conserve. Ride a bike. Take a bus. If you live in a place where this is not possible, MOVE.
I’ve lived all over this country, and I never drive. I get around just fine. So could you.
posted by Bobby on
“If Bobby is in fact a homosexual, surely he is the most self-hating individual in history.”
—You’re comparing me to married gays, closet gays who work for the AFA and secret gays in the neo-nazi movement? You got some nerve. Being fair and balanced is not being self-hating. Maybe you don’t have any principles, but I do. Just because the Salvation Army rejects people like me doesn’t mean I won’t support their freedom to associate with whom they wish.
“I also make little money but do not feel in the grip of Big Oil because I DO NOT DRIVE. Walk, people. You’re purportedly conservative on this site: well, conserve. Ride a bike. Take a bus. If you live in a place where this is not possible, MOVE.”
—Sure, my work is in Fort Lauderdale, I guess I’m either supposed to sell my home, or bike 30 miles everyday. As for taking public transportation, I would have to wake up at 5am to catch a bus at 6 to get to my work at 9am. Or, I can just leave the house 8:20am and get to work in 40 minutes. You progressives are so practical. You think everything revolves around mother nature. Tell you what, the next time you take one of those eco-tourism trips down in Costa Rica, don’t take a plane, swim there.
“I’ve lived all over this country, and I never drive. I get around just fine. So could you.”
—We’re not all hippies, thank you very much. I’ve taken public transportation in Chicago and New York, it’s so nice waiting for a train, sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 30 minutes, with nothing to do. And then being on that train or bus with disgusting homeless people who haven’t taken a shower in months, mentally disabled individuals with their tongues sticking out, noisy teenagers behaving any way they wish, and other societal scum.
And before you accuse me of being intolerant, just remember that you have the same contempt for evangelical christians, people who live in trailer parks, hunters, Ann Coulter, and anyone other than your hippie-loving Bush-hating progressive pothead friends.
If public transportation had a first class section, maybe I would take it. But as always, you progressives never get it. You want everyone to sacrifice while assholes like Al Gore and John Edwards get to fly in their private jets and live in gigantic energy-wasting suburban mansions.