"What's next for the GLBT community," asks Washington, D.C.'s MetroWeekly, which approached "the leaders of a number of national GLBT and HIV/AIDS organizations" for their thoughts on the new administration and "what the community can achieve." Some of those interviewed are "GLBT" Obamists upholding the party line, but outgoing Log Cabin Republican chief Patrick Sammon offers some clear-headed observations.
On expectations for the Obama administration, Sammon remarks:
My concern is that the Democrats are going to treat the gays likes a constituency, that we're going to get one bone thrown our way, one little reward, and then they expect us to be quiet. I hope that reward isn't hate crimes. While that's good legislation, I don't think anyone believes that passing the hate-crimes bill as it's currently written is going to have this transformative effect on the lives of gay and lesbian people.
And on the success of the anti-gay marriage initiatives, especially the roll back in California, Sammon risks accusations of "racial scape-goating" when he notes:
It doesn't mean we're pointing fingers at anyone, but you have to acknowledge the numbers. The fact is Sen. Obama's presence on the ballot increased turnout - four years ago, African Americans were 6 percent of the electorate in California, this year they were 10 percent and they voted in huge margins [for Proposition 8]. So let's figure out as a community how we can do better to engage people of color and really have a comprehensive strategy to gain allies for equality among African Americans.
Or "the community" could just go on doing what it's been doing (or, more to the point, not doing) and expect that whatever Obama deems to provide is what we deserve.
25 Comments for “More Lessons from Our Mistakes”
posted by mademark on
The bottom line as regards communities (and churchs) of color is that the people who must better engage them are gays and lesbians of color. As long as they stay closeted in their communities and congregations (understandably, given the ostracism they face, but at some point one take the blows and survives), they allow the knee-jerk homophobia to continue. White gay couples, with or without our children, attempting to ‘educate’ people of color will not succeed, or not nearly as much as having LGBTers of color come out in the places they live. This is less a failure of white gay people to inform communites of color than it is of communities of color to inform themselves.
posted by Jorge on
Of course, that’s assuming gays of color don’t have their own priorities.
I received very few hints this campaign that Obama is going to do anything transformative on behalf of gay people.
First let’s see if he’s really willing to bridge divides on such divisive issues like abortion, as he pledged to try. If he does that, then I’ll take what ever goods he can give us on gay rights, as long as it comes with his full attention and effort.
Not happening. He’s going to try to force through rather than negotiate his policies, and since you can’t force through gay rights very easily, he’s just gonna throw us a bone.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Can we please stop overgeneralizing? All black gay people are not closeted, and there have been many efforts from within that community. Are more and expanded efforts needed? Sure. But the fact that more black faces need to be associated with the message of equality for gay families does not mean that white gays cannot help. White gays have greater numbers and greater resources. It really isn’t necessary to see this exclusively through a prism of black victimhood and guilt-mongering.
Patrick Sammon is right when he says, “So let’s figure out as a community how we can do better to engage people of color and really have a comprehensive strategy to gain allies for equality among African Americans.”
Steve has now repeatedly made sneering references to “racial scapegoating,” as if either everyone who refers to the black vote in Prop 8 is guilty of such scapegoating or nobody is. Come on, Steve, stop knocking down straw men. There were specific reports of explicit racist comments from some of the early post-election rallies, including one in Westwood where some white gays were angrily hurling the n-word at black gays, as if the black population were monolithic and the black gays must therefore be anti-gay, despite the fact that they were holding pro-gay signs. That behavior was as ugly as it was incoherent. Speaking more broadly, there is no dispute that we collectively (across the color spectrum) have a lot more work to do in the African American community. With that in mind, what good purpose is served by more bitter comments? I have been working across racial lines for a long time, and I have the scars to prove it; but I am trying to keep my eyes on the prize, as the saying goes. What’s the alternative? This isn’t easy work, but as Tony Blair once said to Congress in a different context, it’s what we’ve been given to do.
posted by Bobby on
People are angry, Richard. Don’t forget that the hip hop industry is full of homophobic music, don’t forget all the homophobic comments by African-American celebrities in sports, the military (Colin Powell) and even the arts!
Even hardcore gay liberals can only take so much, and when the boiling point is reached, all kinds of ugliness that was previously repressed comes out.
To put it bluntly, how many times do you have to be called a f-g before you throw the n word?
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Bobby wrote, “To put it bluntly, how many times do you have to be called a f-g before you throw the n word?”
I have been in that situation and it honestly did not occur to me as a response.
What does someone being angry justify misdirecting their anger? How many times does it have to be explained to you (or the people with whom you are apparently sympathizing) that the anti-gay actions or statements of some black people are not those of all black people? When a black gay couple at an anti-Prop-8 rally in Westwood CA, who were holding pro-gay signs, were called the N-word, what sense did that make? How does it make someone feel liberated to make false generalizations about others? Isn’t the countering of false generalizations a key part of our collective purpose here?
posted by JAGM on
Richard R.
If you can excuse the behavior of black people for misdirecting their anger than you must apply that same opportunity to radical religious right types too because they can’t help themselves either for their hatred is fomented in anger as well.
Like it or not, there are cultural differences between various races and religions. As a half-Latino, I can honestly state that many Latins, men especially, are not accepting of gay behavior. This is the same in the AA community as well. I suspect it has to do with exposure to and misinterpretation of gay lifestyle, as well as gay stereotypes.
We cannot deny that the AA and Latinos supported the ban on gay marriages, not only in CA, but also in Fla, where anti-gay issues passed by even larger percentages even though Dems outnumber Reps in that state.
So I think we should stop making excuses and instead try to understand what the differences are and how to build bridges.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
JAGM, I do not recall excusing anyone.
Is it really that hard to stop making false generalizations? There may indeed be a tendency among Latinos to be anti-gay, but that is not true of all Latinos.
The impulse to find some group of “them” to blame is not productive. We need to find strategies for expanding our support, which means channeling anger productively rather than spewing bile.
posted by JAGM on
Richard R.
I agree that “some” does not equate to “all” and can result in false generalizations. But when significant numbers (70%) of AA and Latinos vote against you, one should consider what is the reasoning behind that. Without failure to acknowledge this pattern, you cannot get to the root cause of the problem, and offer solutions. AA and Latin cultures are probably the most opposed to gay culture than any other group. This is a reality we need to deal with if we want to bridge the gap and better relations with those communities.
One problem with so many in the gay community is there is a perception of a “them vs. us” mentality. It is “either you are with us or against us” mind-set instead of trying to understand what we can do to bridge the gap. As someone who lives in San Francisco, I see this all the time. If you do not accept the gay mantra, then you are isolated and ostracized, there is no room for compromise or discussion, at least at the political level.
My point is that there is a bit of the “pot calling the kettle black” here when there are complaints that voting patterns of AA and Latinos should not be extrapolated towards those entire communities. But more often than not, this is exactly what is done to religious people, accusing them of being homophobic and hateful because of the views of “some” religious people.
From personal experience, and as someone of Latin descent, I can tell you that I have personally experienced or heard more homophobic remarks and seen more intolerant behavior from AA and Latinos then religious people.
So I challenge everyone to be open to the view that there is evidence that the gay community has a disconnect with significant amounts in the AA and Latin community and consider what is the best way for us to bridge that gap.
posted by Priya Lynn on
Bobby wrote, “To put it bluntly, how many times do you have to be called a f-g before you throw the n word?”
It wouldn’t matter how many times a black person insulted me for being LGBT I wouldn’t use the n word. I’d point out their failings as a person rather than doing as they do and denigrate them for a morally neutral characteristic.
posted by Priya Lynn on
JAGM said “So I challenge everyone to be open to the view that there is evidence that the gay community has a disconnect with significant amounts in the AA and Latin community and consider what is the best way for us to bridge that gap.”.
I’ve encountered very few people in the gay community that aren’t open to that view and haven’t considered the best way to bridge that gap. You’re imagining a significant problem where there is none.
posted by dalea on
JAMG, the Latino vote was about 53/47, which is not an overwhelming margin. Especially when you consider that about 25 to 30% of Latinos are Evangelical Christians. Which means a majority of non Evangelical Latinos voted for gay marriage. We did reasonably well with the Latino vote. The Black vote is the troubling one.
Several Latino gay men I know have told me that when they came out, their abuelettas began trying to find nice men for them to date.
posted by Bobby on
“It wouldn’t matter how many times a black person insulted me for being LGBT I wouldn’t use the n word.”
—Hey Priya, I think I would use the n-word just to remind that person what it feels to be verbally assaulted. I hate minorities that treat me like an inferior. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses…
“When a black gay couple at an anti-Prop-8 rally in Westwood CA, who were holding pro-gay signs, were called the N-word, what sense did that make?”
—Well Richard, you’re right about that. Attacking gay blacks makes no sense. It is black churches we must protest in public and denounce in print.
We must also stop supporting affirmative action, diversity, and all that racist PC bullshit. Empowering minorities only turns them into self-rightious oppresors.
Gay liberals must realize that they need to treat straight blacks the same way they treat straight whites. As long as we keep treating straight blacks like they’re special, we’re going to get uppity attitudes from them.
posted by The Ghost of Eleanor Roosevelt on
Hey Priya, I think I would use the n-word just to remind that person what it feels to be verbally assaulted. I hate minorities that treat me like an inferior.
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent, loser.
posted by Bobby on
“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent, loser.”
—Calling me a loser says more about you than it does about me.
Do you call black homphobes losers? I suspect you’re a hypocrite. People like you have tried to get Rush Limbaugh throw off the air, people like you interrupt Ann Coulter when she gives a speech, yet people like you can’t stand it if someone utters the n word, unless that person is black of course.
People like you live in a deluded world where all white christians are evil and all black evangelicals are good, and thus you attack mormons and not black and hispanic churches because you’re too scared to find out that the minorities you love don’t love you back.
You’re like the gays that join a pro-palestine protest and get mistreated by the very arabs they’re protesting with.
I don’t have to hate you, you already hate yourself and empower those who hate you.
Get over your minority fetish. If 70% of blacks voted for prop-8 that means 70% of blacks don’t like gays. If there where no blacks and hispanics in California, same-sex marriage would be a reality.
posted by Attmay on
To put it bluntly, how many times do you have to be called a f-g before you throw the n word?
I’d be calling them breeders instead. They didn’t insult your race, they insulted your sexual orientation. Eye for an eye, just like their beloved Bible commands.
You’re like the gays that join a pro-palestine protest and get mistreated by the very arabs they’re protesting with.
We should be attacking Islamic bigotry with the same fervor as Christian bigotry. They not only oppose gay marriage, but gay BREATHING. The sooner we attack those gay-hating Muslim nations, the better.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
I am sure that the real ghost of Eleanor Roosevelt would communicate in a more dignified and refined manner, even to Bobby.
posted by Priya Lynn on
Ghost of Eleanor Roosevelt said “Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent, loser.”.
Bobby didn’t say he felt inferior, he said he hates being treated as inferior – there’s a world of difference.
posted by Bobby on
“Bobby didn’t say he felt inferior, he said he hates being treated as inferior – there’s a world of difference.”
—Glad you understand. Someone who feels inferior would not mind being treated as an inferior. Like a woman with low self-esteem that gets beat up by her husband and blames herself for pissing him off.
“I’d be calling them breeders instead. They didn’t insult your race, they insulted your sexual orientation. Eye for an eye, just like their beloved Bible commands.”
—You have to stick the finger in the wound. Calling them breeder doesn’t offend them, many of them will look at you in the eye and say “well yeah, I like to breed.”
It’s like that movie Tales from the Hood, in the last episode, a black gangbanger is first placed in a cell next to a neo-nazi. The nazi tells him, “I like you, boy, because you kill n-gg-rs” and offers him the role of a slave if the whites win the race war. After that, he’s forced to watch images of the Klan, lynchings, and all kinds of white on black violence juxtaposed with black on black violence.
We have to remind black people that interracial marriage used to be a crime. They may not like gay marriage, which they see as gay sex approved by the state, yet they don’t realize that the idea of a black penis entering a white vagina used to make most people sick.
I know it’s crude to say things that way, but that’s exactly how they talk about gays! In fact, I didn’t even know what rimming and fisting was until i visited the American Family Association website years ago. So if your adversary wants to put you down, I say you remind him where he came from!
posted by Attmay on
Many blacks don’t approve of interracial marriage either. I’ll see your “Tales From the Hood” and raise you a “Jungle Fever” and “The Jeffersons.” Furthermore, it’s lazy to use popular culture as evidence to support an opinion. If I used “The Wizard of Oz” to support a case for killing women suspected of being wicked witches, they’d haul me off to the booby hatch.
posted by Bobby on
“Many blacks don’t approve of interracial marriage either.”
—True, but if there was ever a ballot initiative to outlaw interracial marriage blacks would be outraged. Just because they don’t like it doesn’t mean they want to ban it.
Attmay, do not underestimate the power of popular culture. Movies like “Guess who’s coming to dinner” got millions to think about interracial couples. “Dawn of the Living Dead” broke ground not only with an african-american leading character, but with having that character slap a white woman in the face after she started going hysterical. Philadelphia got people talking about AIDS, Brokeback Mountain proved that millions of women can enjoy a gay love story, the list goes on.
Jamaica is a great example, this caribbean nation is dominated by reaggae music which is virulently homophobic and encourages gay bashings and gay killings. It took years for gays to rise against Jamaicans, but now they’re finally doing it and artists like Shaggy are having problems booking engagements in certain veneues, or they’re being forced not to sing certain songs. Gays in America and in England have said enough, instead of embracing the multicultural bullshit, they’re finally standing against it.
Eventually we’re gonna have to confront homophobic african-americans with the same vitriol we give the mormons and others.
posted by Attmay on
Do you really believe that black homophobes will gladly join us in the fight for gay marriage if we would just toss a few more N-bombs their way?
And people won’t change their deeply held prejudices because a movie or TV show called them out on it. They’ll just change the channel.
posted by Priya Lynn on
Bobby said “Eventually we’re gonna have to confront homophobic african-americans with the same vitriol we give the mormons and others.”.
To use your own example Bobby, the battle wasn’t won against homophobic reggae artists by using vitriol, it was won by appealing to common sense and fairness, the idea that its wrong to call for the assault and murder of those who harm no one.
Attmay is right, tossing N-bombs around will only escalate the hatred.
posted by Bobby on
Very well, Priya, you win this one.
posted by tutnet on
We must also stop supporting affirmative action, diversity, and all that racist PC bullshit. Empowering minorities only turns them into self-rightious oppresors.
posted by gay sex on
We must also stop supporting affirmative action, diversity, and all that racist PC bullshit. Empowering minorities only turns them into self-rightious oppresors.