This being a blog titled "Culture Watch," although focused on socio-political developments affecting the status and legal rights of gay people, I must recognize the coming out of popular American Idol runner-up/teen fave Clay Aiken and former Disney child star/aspiring actress Lindsay Lohan. Churlishly, my initial response (particularly as regards party girl Lohan) is, must they? But out gay celebs do represent some kind of progress, especially for the younger set.
Rick Sincere blogs, "The shock and surprise with which this news is being met is ... [ellipses in original, denoting silence] well, isn't it."?
Yes, it is.
More. In the entertainment world, "Republican is the new 'gay.'"
43 Comments for “Muted Response Worth Noting”
posted by ETJB on
Ok, I think it is a good thing — that the people were finally secure in their careers and sense of self — to remove the closet door. Although, it was hardly a surprise with Clay, who did — initially — seem to ‘deny’ the rumors and then eventually just said that it was nobody’s business.
posted by Bobby on
I’m glad he came out, but wouldn’t it have been nicer if he had come out before having a baby with a woman that’s not even his wife? Couldn’t he have come out during his American Idol days?
Thanks Clay, you came out just when your career was almost over, perhaps you’re hoping to get some gigs playing at gay pride parades. Ask The Weather Girls, they go around the country playing “It’s raining men” for thousands of gay men.
Frankly, how the hell can he call himself a born-again-Christian? Evangelical Christianity does not approve of homosexuality or even pre-marital sex, nor would they approve of using a surrogate mother to have a child, a very selfish choice in a world of overpopulation, but still, his choice to make.
Well Clay, get ready for a new life without going to your evangelical congregation on Sundays. Evangelicals like “sinners” who repent, they don’t like happy gays. Still, perhaps I’m being way to negative, maybe most people don’t give a crap anymore, for his sake, I hope so.
posted by Jorge on
I could not disagree with you more, Bobby. I think there is something notable about these celebrities from my generation. They are different from older gay celebrities (well, I can only think of lesbians at the moment, actually… hmm!) for whom their homosexuality and coming out became such a production. They’re icons. With Aiken and especially Lohan, it seems it was less of an issue for them. Lohan didn’t even say the words “I’m gay” but she was in a relationship for a very long time? They’re clearly marching to their own drumbeat.
posted by Bobby on
Jorge, I don’t know why you’re disagreeing.
When Ellen came out, she was on top of her game, had a hot comedy show, and took a gamble by not only outing herself, but her character as well. And she came out stronger for it.
When Rosie O’donnel came out, she had her own TV show, and was later on The View, and then she became a radical angry person, but that’s not the issue. The issue is those women come out strong.
Neither Aiken nor Lohan came out at the top of their game. Lohan is a druggie, she’s been in and out of rehab, she’s been arrested, and I hope her coming out isn’t another Anne Heche tactic to get attention.
Another example is that gay Backstreet Boy. He came out long after the Backstreet Boys stopped being the popular group they used to be. The last time I saw him on TV, he wasn’t even working. He was in Australia for gay mardigras.
I don’t think they’re marching to their own drumbeats, I think they wait until they have nothing left to lose to announce their gayness.
Why give gay celebrities a break? How many gays have come out at 16 only to be thrown out of their homes? These gay celebrities have money, friends, power, connections, what are they afraid of? American Idol has had at least one openly gay contestant who didn’t win. Did Aiken keep his sexuality under wraps in the hopes of winning American Idol? (which he didn’t). Did he lied in hopes of selling more albums? Did he called himself a born-again-Christian to get all those evangelicals to buy his records?
Either way, Aiken doesn’t have much to lose because he doesn’t have much of anything. He’s a has-been, and his coming out won’t change anything.
posted by Audrey B on
I’m just waiting for Anderson Cooper to finally say it. It being “I’m gay”.
posted by ETJB on
(1) The hardcore economic reality is that few, if any, gay American celebrities became celebrities while been as open about their sexuality as heterosexual Americans. Most remained in the closet or were tight-lipped about their, cough, cough, ‘private life’.
It has only been recently that a American celebrity can come out and still be a celebrity, maybe even a successful one. Things tend to be a bit different in parts of Europe, mainly because their is broader social and political support for gay people.
(2) No one religion or church can claim a monopoly on what it means to be “born-again” or an “evangelical” Christian. No one knows if Clay has been or is involved any a physical relationship, tabloid accusations aside. Frankly, it is probably none of our business. I suppose he wanted a child that kinda looked like him.
I can not read people’s minds, and I do not try to — like Michigan Matt — but I am not sure why we can not be a gay man and a dedicated Christian. What about that young Christian man on that tv show who came out?
I suspect that he came out because their had been lots of pressure building on him to do so, with his denials and evasive answers. If he had come out during American Idol he would not have won, he came in second place and frankly I felt that he had a much better singing voice. then the man who did win. Maybe becoming a father made him want to be more honest man or maybe he wants to have a serious relationship with a man and does not want to do it in the closet. Who knows?
I remember when some tabloid magazine published something about a porn star or someone alleged to have had unsafe gay sex with Clay Aiken in a motel somewhere. The fans were outraged at the suggestion that he might be gay, and stupid about STD’s, and it made for some passionate comments back and forth, even on his Wikipedia article.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ET takes a limp-wristed swipe with: “I can not read people’s minds, and I do not try to — like Michigan Matt”. I think grammar coaches would argue you should have written “unlike” not like to be more clear in your meaning.
BTW, I tried reading your mind ET and the only vision that came back was one of a vast waste land… not unlike Siberia in January or ANWR in August.
Vast, empty expanse.
Oh and some botany books for little alien visitors to Earth; phone home ET, phone home.
posted by Bobby on
Hey ETJB,
“It has only been recently that a American celebrity can come out and still be a celebrity, maybe even a successful one.”
—Then why was Aiken acting like Rock Hudson and Liberace?
“(2) No one religion or church can claim a monopoly on what it means to be “born-again” or an “evangelical” Christian.”
—A religion isn’t like a garment that you can wear anyway you like. When you call yourself a born-again Christian, people expect you to live in a certain way and have certain beliefs. It’s like me calling myself an orthodox jew while eating pork.
That’s why before participating in a religion, you should know EXACTLY where they stand to see if you really belong there. If Aiken was a mormon, he’d probably be on the road to excommunication right now. Evangelicals will probably give him the cold shoulder.
“What about that young Christian man on that tv show who came out?”
—Is he still on TV?
“If he had come out during American Idol he would not have won, he came in second place and frankly I felt that he had a much better singing voice.”
—Winning by lying isn’t really winning. And I would argue that maybe Reuben was a lot more authentic than an effeminate close case who everyone suspected of being gay.
“I remember when some tabloid magazine published something about a porn star or someone alleged to have had unsafe gay sex with Clay Aiken in a motel somewhere.”
—That’s not surprising, closet gays are notorious for unsafe sex, bathroom sex, park sex, you name it. Remember, George Michael came out of a bathroom!
Frankly, I’m not too proud of Aiken or anyone who stays in the closet for too
long. And I hope Aiken doesn’t expect me to buy his music now. Because as gay man, I’m not interested in songs about loving women.
posted by Audrey B. on
Anderson Cooper likes young, Hispanic men. If you are a young, Hispanic man, Anderson Cooper wants to have sex with you.
posted by Priya Lynn on
It takes a very small person to begrudge another coming out at whatever time they choose to do so. Welcome to the community Clay and Lindsay. Ignore the bitter self centered queens who’d criticize you.
posted by Bobby on
Tell me, Priya, when Haggard was outed, did you feel any sympathy for him? Did the gay community welcome him with open arms? Of course not! They hated him because he was a foe of same-sex marriage.
Clay Aiken is just the same. He played the straight game when it was profitable, he got really upset and offended when anyone would question his sexuality, and now that he’s finally honest, do you really expect us to just forgive him?
And don’t you dare call me a small person. I went through hell when I came out to my parents years ago, I even run away from home once. So don’t you tell me to embrace and accept a rich American Idol wimp. Because unlike Clay, me and plenty of other people came out when it wasn’t popular, when it wasn’t trendy, when there was no Ellen, no Queer as Folk, no Brokeback Mountain, no Logo, and no tolerance even from the liberals.
I resent Clay Aiken and Lindsey Lohan, those bastards had it all and yet they couldn’t come out soon enough. Maybe your world is like those progressive schools where where everyone gets a medal just for playing. But in my world, you don’t get rewarded if your actions don’t merit a reward. Clay Aiken is no hero, neither is Lindsey Lohan. And I refuse to worship those bastards! They should APOLOGIZE for lying to us all these years.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
PrincessPriya commands of all gays to embrace the new Aiken, the new Lohan without regard to their earlier positions which sometimes scorned gays… without reservation because, after all, “we are family”.
Actually what Princess commands is to embrace two more “convenience” gays who share PrincessPriya’s special political and cultural views of “Me first, Me always, Me. Me. And if that’s not enough, more Me.”
Of course PrincessPriya would command all lower caste gays to embrace the new Aiken, the new Lohan without reservation… she’s just being a “true gay” by worshiping all that is shallow, vacuous celebrity glitter.
It doesn’t matter if most other gays want far more from “gay” celebrities who declare themselves the new gay model.
Don’t you know, Bobby, it’s ALL about the worship.
posted by ETJB on
OK, I am not going to fret too much about a celebrity. Frankly, I think that we all spend way to much time fretting and speculating and living out our own lives through the ‘celebrity’ image and mass media.
For most people — and a celebrity is, i suppose, a person the ‘coming out’ process is a life long journey with each person going at their own individual pace of coming out to themselves and to the people in their lives; friends, family, coworkers, constituents, neighbors, pets and yes, fans.
Growing up in a fairly Christian conservative religion, and wanting to have a strong Christian connection with God, it might have been difficult for him to reconcile his sexuality with his faith. Not everyone who is going through this process is fully aware of the numerous faith based LGBT groups that exist.
I remember when an associate of mine, very bright and professional, slowly became to come out and was having a lot of problems –family and personal — over his sexuality and his Christian faith, Catholic. When I suggested getting in touch with ‘Dignity’ he had no clue what it was.
In terms of economics, their is a relationship between who tends to come out and a persons socio-economic class. People from more modest or working class roots tend to find themselves in a community and or workplace environment that is more overtly hostile and isolating for gay people.
If Clay had been as open about his sexuality as his heterosexual peers, he would not have won the contest. Period. Homophobia within the entertainment industry and within the general public is sufficient enough that most celebrities come out after becoming celebrities — often for years or decades.
In such cases it typically occurs when their career is pretty much peaked (if not dead) and they are looking to attract gay dollars, or they are forced out of the closet by some tabloid ‘news’ or they decide to come out knowing that it will greatly limit their financial success and marketability.
Why was Clay Aiken in the closet? Again, he was probably trying to reconcile his Christian faith with his sexuality. He probably believed, correctly, that American Idol would not give first or second place to a openly gay singer and the Entertainment Industry certainly would not welcome him with open arms and that coming out would hurt his marketability with many Christians.
Why are none of the major block buster action starts in the closet? Why are most actors, singers, and other entertainers in the closet? Or at least are very ‘coy’ ‘i do not discuss my private life’?
I am not a Christian, and their are many things about the faith that I do not get or find to be silly, stupid or odd. Yet, I do not know enough about the faith that calling yourself a ‘born again Christian’ and being openly gay does not have to be a contradiction if you (a) believe that we are all imperfect sinners struggling to live in Christ or (b) believe that the official interpretation about homosexuality is wrong.
Their is not a lot of room for conflicting interpretations in terms of what food or animals are seen as being ‘Old Testament’ “unclean”. Conservative, Reform or Reconstruction Jews would not argue that it does not say, ‘don’t eat pigs’ but would argue that their are certain rules that are not really relevant to modern life and are not required to follow the fundamental Jewish creed, except on holidays or family reunions.
Granted, people may have assumptions or stereotypes about how a ‘born again’ Christian is suppose to think and act. But that does not mean that it is actually impossible to make a good faith argument that a person can be born again and gay.
Clay identified as being a Christian, but did, before he came out, suggested that he did not agree with the more socially conservative aspects of Church policy and believed in respecting other people faiths. So, he never really pretended to be a socially conservative, born again Christian.
A while back the IGF reported on some young man, who was involved in the more socially conservative Christian media, who came out. I am not sure if he is still involved in that media. Perhaps an update would be in order. I cannot recall his name off hand.
If he was lying to himself, he probably would not be ready to come out to the entire global mass media audience. How many times did he actually say, during his American Idol run that he was heterosexual, or was it just unsaid or gingerly implied?
At and rate, his singing voice was better then Reuben and the rumors that he was gay, based upon the fact that he was small and effeminate, are probably why he came in second place. If he had actually come out, he would have lost or, maybe, come in third or forth place.
I have heard some of his music. I have liked some of it and not liked others. I do not really have a ‘music budget’, so I have not bought any of his CD’s. I think that he really is a talented singer and probably a fairly decent person who needs to reconcile being a good Christian-person with being gay.
posted by Jorge on
Boddy: What that tells me is that Ellen and Rosie came out knowing they would make a big statement about it. Is that really required in order to be an authentic gay? Now I’m not someone who does nothing, but not everyone agrees with the implication that just because you’re gay, you’re somehow responsible for the well-being of every single other gay person in America and the world. I don’t agree with it because I don’t agree 100% with how the gay community defines its priorities and I reserve the right to determine what my obligations are for myself.
I think it’s completely inappropriate to demand that any gay person, including celebrities base their identities, public and private, on the broader struggle for gay rights. Especially in the context of not knowing where they stand on the “I’m coming to terms with and fully accept my homosexuality” meter, which is frankly an outdated concept. I agree with Pyria Lynn.
posted by Priya Lynn on
Bobby, you’re an angry bitter small person. You brag about one night stands on craig’s list and your fascination with porn and then you’ve got the balls to criticize others for their morality.
In other news the associate press reports Obama is the clear winnner in the debate Friday night (not that that’s any surprise):
2 quick polls give Obama edge in debate
37 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) ? A pair of one-night polls gave Barack Obama a clear edge over John McCain in their first presidential debate.
Fifty-one percent said Obama, the Democrat, did a better job in Friday night’s faceoff while 38 percent preferred the Republican McCain, according to a CNN-Opinion Research Corp. survey of adults.
Obama was widely considered more intelligent, likable and in touch with peoples’ problems, and by modest margins was seen as the stronger leader and more sincere. Most said it was McCain who spent more time attacking his opponent.
About six in 10 said each did a better job than expected. Seven in 10 said each seemed capable of being president.
“In a CBS News poll of people not committed to a candidate, 39 percent said Obama won the debate, 24 percent said McCain and 37 percent called it a tie. Twice as many said Obama understands their needs than said so about McCain.
Seventy-eight percent said McCain is prepared to be president, about the same proportion of uncommitted voters as said so before the debate. Sixty percent said Obama is ready ? a lower score than McCain, but a solid 16-percentage-point improvement from before the debate.
In another Obama advantage in the CBS poll, far more said their image of him had improved as a result of the debate than said it had worsened. More also said their view of McCain had gotten better rather than worse, but by a modest margin.”
posted by Priya Lynn on
Michigan matt said “PrincessPriya commands of all gays to embrace the new Aiken, the new Lohan without regard to their earlier positions which sometimes scorned gays”.
Really, I’m not familiar with this scorn of which you so boldly speak, scorning gays is more your style than their’s it seems to me. How about you provide a link demonstrating this, unless of course you’re lying again.
posted by Priya Lynn on
Let me guess Michigan matt, this is another situtation where you met the two at a republican fundraiser and they scorned gays to you and no one else heard it and they never made any public statements to that effect – just like Mccain told you he opposed DADT, no one else heard it, and he suspiciously never made any public statements to that effect.
posted by Bobby on
“Bobby, you’re an angry bitter small person.”
—And you’re a lesbian with a giant collection of didoes, strap-ons, whips and a bondage cage. I’m glad we know each other so well.
“You brag about one night stands on craig’s list and your fascination with porn and then you’ve got the balls to criticize others for their morality.”
—There is nothing immoral about porn and one night stands as long as you don’t go around calling yourself a born-again-Christian. I am a single man, free to make my own morality, I don’t belong to any religious organizations so I don’t have to subscribe to their morality. Aiken on the other hand, did belong to a group that is mostly anti-gay. And as someone who has known evangelicals, let me tell you something, they HATE liars.
A good example is Britney Spears, she also tried using the virgin card when she was younger to get families to support her. And now that she’s been exposed as a drug using slut, she doesn’t have that fan base anymore. Miley Cyrus almost had the same problems after posing with her father for that controversial magazine photo. Mel Gibson lost a lot of cred after getting caught drunk driving, bitching about jews, and going to strip bars. When you call yourself a born-again-christian, you better LIVE to those standards!
Clay Aiken was a hypocrite, like the gay who laughs when someone tells a homophobic joke. And for years he has been laughing at all of us. And now he comes out and says we’re supposed to act like everything’s forgotten?
Michigan Matt is right, it is all about worship.
Yet why would you worship or even like him? What has Aiken done for the gay community? Will he sing at a gay pride parades? Will he write a few gay songs so gays don’t have to listen to yet another breeder song about loving women? Will he make some donations to gay causes?
The same goes for Lindsey Lohan. I HATE people who engage in a breeder lifestyle to get ahead.
Forgiveness comes through penance, those who have sinned against us must make amends. Clay Aiken needs to earn our admiration, it should not be handed to him on a silver platter.
Simon
posted by Michigan-Matt on
DOing a quick recap here: ET tells us he’s “not going to fret too much about a celebrity” and then goes on and on and on endlessly telling us how he’s NOT going to fret about a celebrity.
What a crack up!
And PrincessPriya decides that a thread about the vacuous, shallow Clay Aiken is the perfect venue to discuss another vacuous, shallow celebrity…. BarryO.
How frickin’ fitting is that?
Sometimes, PrincessPriya, it would be far, far better for your side if you DIDN’T get out of bed in the morning.
Gotta love those loose-shooting liberals… give ’em a gun and they’ll blow off their own head before hitting anything of value.
Way to go, Princess. I think you need to go back to the shallow end of the kiddie’s wading pool where you belong. Make sure you have on your floaties, dear.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Bobby, by the way, don’t take too much to heart from PrincessPriya’s little scorn fest, aka, “Bobby, you’re an angry bitter small person”.
As PrincessPriya declared, she doesn’t do scorn.
What a joke.
posted by Priya Lynn on
And as expected Michigan matt doesn’t have anything to back up his claim that Lohan and Aiken took positions that scorned gays. Thanks for once again demonstrating that you’re all about dishonesty and venemously attacking those who point it out.
posted by Jorge on
I think McCain did better, but then, I’m not uncommitted.
posted by Priya Lynn on
Bobby said “The same goes for Lindsey Lohan. I HATE people who engage in a breeder lifestyle to get ahead.”.
Uhmm. Like your expression of “HATE” for someone who’s never harmed you or anyone else that you know of – that’s the sort of thing that makes people see you as an angry bitter and small person.
Newsflash Bobby, she’s in a same sex relationship, by your logic that’s impeding her not helping her get ahead. Some of us are bisexual Bobby, we don’t owe it to you or anyone else to select a mate that meets your approval.
Bobby said “Clay Aiken needs to earn our admiration, it should not be handed to him on a silver platter.”.
No one said you have to admire him. Decent people accept others even when they haven’t done anything particularly noteworthy. However unlike you and Michigan matt I don’t believe someone’s being a celebrity alone means they deserve to be scorned.
Just like Michigan matt, unless you’ve got a link to prove Lohan or Aiken have “sinned” against the gay community you’re just full of it. I’m not going to hold my breath.
posted by ETJB on
Michigan Matt is a rather malicious, bitter old queen. My comments are general and apply to gay and bisexual people who are in the closet.
If we want more people to come out, we have to be honest and compassionate about why they are in the closet — religious and economic issues — are a big part of that.
posted by Bobby on
“Uhmm. Like your expression of “HATE” for someone who’s never harmed you or anyone else that you know of – that’s the sort of thing that makes people see you as an angry bitter and small person.”
—What has Sara Palin doen to you liberals? Nothing! Yet why are all of you so angry with her? I guess you must all be bitter and small people. It’s about principles, Priya. You hate Palin because you hate anyone who opposes abortion. I hate Lohan because she was a hypocrite and I hate hypocrisy!
“No one said you have to admire him. Decent people accept others even when they haven’t done anything particularly noteworthy.”
—No they don’t, you give out acceptance as if it was air. “Let’s accept everybody, hooray!” It doesn’t work like that. Respect has to be earned, at work I have to show up on time, watch my spelling, work late if they ask me to work late. I’m not automatically accepted! I earn it! And I expect others to earn it to.
“However unlike you and Michigan matt I don’t believe someone’s being a celebrity alone means they deserve to be scorned.”
—Challenged, not scorned, not cuddled, not embraced. Celebrities get too much attention, the public has a right to make demands on them, to ask questions. Celebrities are nothing without their public, without us, they wouldn’t be making millions of dollars.
posted by Jorge on
I think Bobby’s in the mindset that people should engage in a publicly gay lifestyle to “get ahead” in the gay community. But the truth is that there is no gay Queen to whom we all pledge our unquestioning allegiance, no gay Ten Commandments that have verifiably been broken.
I find it fascinating that this disagreement is not splitting over political lines. It usually does.
No they don’t, you give out acceptance as if it was air. “Let’s accept everybody, hooray!” It doesn’t work like that. Respect has to be earned, at work I have to show up on time, watch my spelling, work late if they ask me to work late. I’m not automatically accepted! I earn it! And I expect others to earn it to.
You say that, yet you don’t embody the equal principle that people should earn scorn and disrespect, for the bigoted slurs you have voiced to be used against them. Aiken and Lohan have done little to earn the gay community’s adulation. They have also done nothing to earn our scorn. Therefore they are worthy of our respect.
posted by Priya Lynn on
And Bobby just like the failure Michigan matt can’t back up his claim that Aiken and lohan have sinned against or scorned the gay community. You both live on lies to pursue your hatred against those who’ve harmed no one and who as such deserve our welcome into the LGBT community.
Michigan matt said “As PrincessPriya declared, she doesn’t do scorn. What a joke.”.
You lie. I do scorn all right, I scorn evildoers and liars like you, Bobby, Northdallas, and James/Ashpenaz who attack innocent LGBT people. Unlike you I don’t scorn innocents like Lohan, Aiken and the broader LGBT community.
Bobbby said “—What has Sara Palin doen to you liberals? Nothing! Yet why are all of you so angry with her? I guess you must all be bitter and small people. It’s about principles, Priya. You hate Palin because you hate anyone who opposes abortion.”
Wrong Bobby. I don’t HATE Palin whereas you in your own words clearly stated that you HATE Lohan. I oppose Palin because she’s taken stands against the LGBT community opposing domestic partner benefits and equal marriage. As you and Michigan matt have failed (of course) to demonstrate that Lohan and Aiken have done the same I don’t oppose them. So your claim that Palin has done “nothing” to us liberals is a lie.
Bobby said “you give out acceptance as if it was air.”.
Oh contraire. As long as someone has not hurt others I give them my acceptance unconditionally. People don’t need to have done anything particularly noteworthy to deserve acceptance. You and Michigan matt have gotten on here and lied repeatedly about Aiken and Lohan harming the gay community. You’ve made it clear you are angry, bitter, small people.
I said “However unlike you and Michigan matt I don’t believe someone’s being a celebrity alone means they deserve to be scorned.”
Bobby said “Challenged, not scorned, not cuddled, not embraced”.
Uhh, Bobby, you exclaimed that you “HATE” Lohan. Don’t try to downplay your scorn for her now. The fact is that if they were just ordinary people who had hurt no one you wouldn’t be ranting about how you hate them, you’d accept them at face value. You resent them solely because they are celebrities, you feel a driving need to tear them down in a vain attempt to pump yourself up. That’s where you are a small person. I on the other hand couldn’t care less if they are celebrities and wealthy or not, it doesn’t bruise my ego at all and I feel no attendant need to tear them down merely for acknowledging their sexuality.
I’m done here. Go ahead and stew in your own misplaced hatred and lies Bobby and Michigan matt.
posted by taylor on
It’s a nice site where the insight stories of many people are been revealed and we get to know the facts.
—————
taylor
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posted by Michigan-Matt on
PrincessPriya is having another red pad day, it seems.
First, she/he heaps scorn upon anyone who demurs from the OneTrueGayCreed.
Seems to be a pattern.
How dare anyone in the realm dispute her pronouncements of royal sanctuary for the now-gay Aiken and the convenient-gay Lohan! The Princess does not accept the notion that celebrity is nothing more than self-serving shallowness because, to the Princess, if we don’t have celebrity to adore, to fawn, to worship… what becomes of PrincessPriya’s lifetime subscription to People Magazine? What will she talk about to her friends? How will she live?
I guess People magazine editors could write endlessly about BarryO… and that would soothe the Princess’s frayed nerves because BarryO is all about worship and celebrity.
You know it’s been a red pad day when PrincessPriya takes more swipes at more IGF readers than a brown bear in a salmon run… and she’s just about as ornery.
Seems to be a pattern.
Nope, PrincessPriya, you’ve been calling anyone who disagrees with your special definition of reality a liar here and elsewhere for a long, long time.
Seems to be a pattern.
And then when you’re done stomping your feet, you clap your hands over your head like a 4 yr old princess in tulle tutu and declare the discussion is now over.
Seems to be a pattern.
You can adore, worship and even fawn over celebrity, Princess. It doesn’t mean that all gays must do as you have demanded. I wonder, is that a crack in the Princess’ wand?
posted by ETJB on
Perhaps if either of these two celebrity-people had come out as being gay via the sexual harassment of a same-sex employee or soliciting sex in a public bathroom or pulling a Gannon, the gay conservatives would to defend them.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
That’s kind of doubtful, isn’t it, ET? I mean, according to you, there are no gay conservatives –it’s mutually exclusive. “Real gays” carry the DemParty water pail and march to the OneTrueGayCreed.
I wonder if we’ll ever get to a time when the self-serving, self-interested gay celebrities like Lohan and Aiken will stop using the gay community to prop up their failing careers?
The real reason you need to defend Lohan is the same as PrincessPriya: you know them to share your political beliefs and, in the gay realm, that means defend them no matter what.
Worship, fawn and adore… I’m beginning to better understand why so many gays are drawn to BarryO. It’s not policy; it’s that he fits the gay stereotypical response to celebrity.
posted by ETJB on
Michigan Matt;
Hello. Good to see that you are stil outright lying. I never said that their were no ‘gay conservatives’. I have met and worked with a number of gay conservatives, and gay libertarians over the years.
It is you who seems to think that anyone who is not your type of Christian must not believe in God, and anyone who does not worship your candidates and support your political peferences mustbe all sorts of evil things, like a slave on a masta’ plantation.
It might be a good thing that Clay Aiken has come out, becuase he is otherwise fairly stable — emotionally, and could be a connection with the younger, and possible less bigoted, Christians. I suspect it was done for financial reasons, or perhaps he wants to do thinks that the closet make difficult or perhaps the press was getting tired of lying for him.
I really do not know too much about Lohan, as I have not followed as much of her work. I generally liked much of Aiken’s vocal talents and saw bits an pieces of that seasons American Idol.
From what I have heard, Lohan has got some serious drug and emotional related problems and now might not have been the best time to come out, although technically she is only dating a woman. That does not really establish if she is gay or bisexual or perhaps pulling an Anne Heche.
I do not know enough about Lohan or PP’s political peferences or beliefs to know how much they may or may not match mine. Heck, you have rarely taken the time to find out what my beliefs may or may not be.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ET phones in another zinger from FarLeftField: “Hello. Good to see that you are stil outright lying.”
Wow, ET, you must have spent the night reading PrincessPriya’s Playbook… how many times do you think you can foist that liar nonsense and still have IGF readers think your opinion has merit?
My guess is, you lost that credibility a long time ago when you demeaned Mark Bingham, the gay hero of 9-11, his family, his partner, his friends, Sen McCain and all the victims of 9-11 by claiming their memories are immaterial.
No credibility, ET. Just like the legacy of gayLeft radicals pushing on mainstream American voters until state after state passes FMAs with overwhelming majorities.
With gay “friends” like you, the civil rights movement doesn’t need enemies.
posted by ETJB on
Good to see that you are still using hateful, malicious and deceptive comments in your posts. I do not know this “Princess Priya’ nor have I seen her playbook.
I did not demean Mark Bingham, his family or his surviving male spouse. I did state that McCain and Palin are demeaing him and every other single gay American in the nation with their knee-jerk opposition to even mainstream gay rights legislation.
I am not a member of the “radical left” or the “reactionary right”. I certainly have not been involved in “pushing” anyone, let alone “mainstream American voters” and the State FMA passed for a lot of reasons, but blaming, as you have done, every single gay person who does not share your race, your religion, your class or your politics is incredibly childish and counterproductive.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ET whines: “Good to see that you are still using hateful, malicious and deceptive comments in your posts. I do not know this “Princess Priya’ nor have I seen her playbook”… I guess that’s why you referenced her points in another thread and compared notes with her in a thrid thread?
The story on Mark Bingham is pretty clear, ET, and you’ve repeatedly demeaned his memory, his family, his life partner, his friends and that’s been well documented in other threads.
Your response has been to deny, deny, deny and then take a few swings fromthe cheap seats at those who paid tribute to Mark Bingham and his singular sacrafice for other Americans. The simple truth is you hate real men like Mark Bingham because they make your rendition of life seem meaningless and shallow.
If you’re not part of the gayLeft, kindly advise your heart, guts and brain because those three –given your opinions here (and not on that world-class blog of yours)– those parts of you don’t know you are anything but gayLeft.
posted by ETJB on
Michigan Matt believes that anyone who does not share his race, political or religious creed is a bad, immoral and deceptive person. Sounds pretty much like Communism or Fascism to me.
Yes, the story on Mark Bingham is pretty clear. McCain can give a wonderful speech honoring a gay American, who saved his life, but he chooses to deman that same person, among others, every single time he voted against, even the mainstream gay rights legislation.
It is not my fault that McCain chooses to deman Mark Bingham, a great gay American hero. That is a choice that he, and his VP candidate, have made time and time again.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Actually, ETJB, what demeans Mark Bingham the most is the attempt by leftist gays like yourself to use him to push your leftist agenda — by insisting that, because of his sexual orientation, he supported the same leftist politics as you do.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ET, you continue to try to avoid the truth but it’s really quite simple.
You demeaned Mark Bingham, his memory, his family, his partner, his friends, Sen McCain’s glowing tribute to Mark and the value of those who sacraficed their lives on 9-11.
Mark’s family doesn’t agree with your assessment. They’ve endorsed Sen McCain once again.
Mark’s partner and lover doesn’t agree with your assessment. He’s supporting McCain and already contributed $2,900 to the campaign.
Mark’s longtime friend doesn’t agree with your assessment. He’s serving on California Democrats for McCain Committee.
Mark’s mother doesn’t agree with your assessment. She’s supporting McCain and her family members have contributed $4,375 to McCain’s 2008 effort.
And, of course, if all those who were close to Mark Bingham and knew him the best don’t agree with your assessment that McCain liked Mark because he was dead and his memory can’t speak to the supposed “dishonor” of McCain’s legislative record on gayLeft action items… where does that leave you?
Continuing the chant of dishonor and demeaning the memory of one of our Country’s, our Nation’s, our gay community’s greatest hero: Mark Bingham of Flight 93.
posted by Bobby on
Hey Jorge, it’s hard for me to reply during the week:
“the truth is that there is no gay Queen to whom we all pledge our unquestioning allegiance, no gay Ten Commandments that have verifiably been broken.”
—You ever notice how they gay left LOVES outing any gays that work for republicans?
Of course there are gay principles! They might not be written in stone, but every gay has their very own set and judge each other accordingly.
“You say that, yet you don’t embody the equal principle that people should earn scorn and disrespect, for the bigoted slurs you have voiced to be used against them.”
—You’re going to tell me you never utter bigoted slurs against people you dislike?
“Aiken and Lohan have done little to earn the gay community’s adulation. They have also done nothing to earn our scorn. Therefore they are worthy of our respect.”
—No Jorge, it doesn’t work that way, not in Hollywood, not in the real world. Nobody’s automatically worthy of respect, not Bush, not Obama, not Madonna, nobody. Everyone has to earn it through their actions. And by disrespecting them now you’re encouraging them to make better choices! Seriously, you’re like the parent who rewards a kid for nothing. Again, it’s like those basketball games where everyone gets a trophy at the end just for playing. If everyone wins, nobody wins! If everyone gets respect, it doesn’t mean anything. It means you’re gonna have to respect good people and bad people and everyone in between. That’s bullshit!
posted by ETJB on
MM you continue to ignore truth, or even basic notions of common sense or decency. I am rather suprised, as you are much nastier and more intellectually dishonest then any of the gay Republicans I have had the pleasure of working with.
I did not demean Mark Bingham, his memory or his family — which should include his surviving partner –. I have pointed out a basic truth, which conflicts with your partisan political lense and thus you chose to ignore it and lash out against me.
John McCain demenad Mark Bingham, his memory and his family. He did so by refusing to treat this great man, this man who saved his life, with any shred of equality. He and his running mate do not support giving gay Americans any equity and that is not how you honor humam beings.
This is not a Democrat vs. Republican, conservativ vs. liberal argument. McCain could have easily chosen to remain the ‘maverick’ Republican U.S. Senator, while still supporting certain gay rights bills.
posted by Brian on
I think ETJB, Matt from Michigan has proven you to have done exactly that -demeaned Mr Bingham’s memory, his contribution to society and the value of having such a prominent gay hero in our lifetime and, what’s more irritating to those of watching you deny, twist, deny, twsit, deny is that you know you did it.
It’s been pointed out over and over.
Get over yourself and do the honorable thing like others here have suggested. Apologize, ETJB. Apologize for demeaning Mr. Bingham’s memory and the awesome tribute that Sen McCain gave to Mr Bingham.
Apologize. It’s been asked of you before and you keep avoiding the truth, smearing others, denying your guilt.
posted by Brian on
ETJB, “Michigan Matt believes that anyone who does not share his race, political or religious creed is a bad, immoral and deceptive person. Sounds pretty much like Communism or Fascism to me.”
That is plain old stupid of you to say anything even like this. He’s never said that or done anything I know of to deserve your fake condemnation.
Except maybe trying to hold you to some account.
Plain old stupid thing to write, ETJB.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Brian writes: “I think ETJB, Matt from Michigan has proven you to have done exactly that -demeaned Mr Bingham’s memory, his contribution to society and the value of having such a prominent gay hero in our lifetime and, what’s more irritating to those of watching you deny, twist, deny, twsit, deny is that you know you did it. It’s been pointed out over and over”
Thanks Brian. ETJB shares a trait with RichardII… they both were unable to admit their mistake and move on. ET is doing the exact smae thing over his nonsense about Roe V Wade isn’t settled law because… because… here comes the legally weighty answer: because ET says it t’aint so.
Uninformed opinions from fools are worth as much as warm spit from a coon dog sittin’ on a Georgia porch in July. ET’s “opinions” are worth less.