Over at the Volokh Conspiracy site, IGF contributing author Dale Carpenter posts about a New York Times/CBS poll showing that 49% of the GOP delegates favor full recognition for gay unions either in the form of marriage (6%) or civil unions (43%). Only 46% of the delegates believe there should be no legal recognition whatsoever of same-sex couples. Writes Dale:
It's still the case, of course, that Democratic voters and delegates are far more likely than Republican voters and delegates to support legal recognition of gay families. The latest draft of the official platform of the national GOP contains no position-either for or against-civil unions, which is noteworthy all by itself and may signal that party leaders understand the changed dynamic on this issue even among Republicans. The platform does reiterate the party's opposition to same-sex marriage and support for a federal marriage amendment (which McCain himself opposes). But I consider this poll of party activists quite surprising, and for a supporter of same-sex marriage, quite encouraging.
And yet in this election cycle the big beltway LGBT political lobbies are more than ever committed to the one-party strategy, betting everything on an Obama victory (and that, although they've pledged their support unconditionally, his administer will-somehow unlike Bill Clinton's-spend its political capital on our behalf).
More. Roger Simon blogs on why he supports same-sex marriage. Simon is the co-founder and CEO of Pajamas Media, which aggregates a number of conservative, pro-Republican and/or conservative/libertarian-leaning blogs for advertising purposes (it's despised by leftwing bloggers).
55 Comments for “Yes, GOP Support for Gay Equality Is Winnable”
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Those poll numbers are encouraging and should serve as a reminder that the surest way of advancing our rights is to conduct our advocacy in a way that does not write off half the population. My own local advocacy group, GLAA in D.C., just gave one of its highest ratings to our Republican city council member (because she earned it). But that does not mean that in a given election, gay voters should ignore their self interest. As I wrote in my latest column:
“Mockery by some gay Republicans about the supposed naivet
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Stephen makes some excellent points again about the changing face of the GOP and the need for the liberal elite gayDemocrats who have monopolized the voice of gay activism to halt their silly self-serving, Democrat-preserving litmus tests of partisan purity and embrace a multiparty approach to securing gay civil rights. Like GeorgieStephanopulous (who LGBTers told us might even be gay at one point) said in the last Democrat Administration: We kept all the promises we intended to keep. The latest group of gayDemocrats continue the refrain: We need Barack. We need Oh-Baam-A. There are whispers of promises by the ObamAcoyltes of a Free Gay World embracing all liberal elite values.
Of course, those self-serving, gayDemocrat-preserving liberal elites will die hard –very hard as RichardJ proves quite nicely.
It’s amazing to me that the very argument that RichardJ wages against McCain-the-reforming-maverick is the EXACT refrain the farRight whackjobs in the GOP were ALSO using AGAINST McCain in the primaries and lead-up to the primaries. Strange bedfellows indeed.
For them, like RichardJ from the Temple of Barack, McCain wasn’t good enough despite issue a, b or c of the day. He wasn’t a real GOPer… he was a RINO. Their suggestion? Like RichardJ from the Temple of Barack, let the independents choose McCain for the GOP, let him lose the election, let all GOPers lose their respective elections and then, maybe, out of the ashes will rise a new, improved, truer version of Party at the GOP… except for the farRight whackjobs it was a Reagan-esque GOP… not as RichardJ, from the Temple of Barack, would hope a more progressive, moderate GOP that would embrace gay civil rights.
Same old cliche from RichardJ that the farRight whackjobs were lending as the FINAL SOLUTION for the GOP.
Strange bedfellows, indeed.
The truth that RichardJ will never, ever admit is that McCain’s candidacy is actually the beginning of that repositioning of the GOP toward moderation and tolerance. And it’s one that is worthy of all gays to support if we are to build a better world for all –not just for the Promised Ones from the Temple… oh, and the legions in Germany chanting “Oh-Bamm-A”, too.
But then, for RichardJ from the Temple of Barack, that would require thinking outside the approved parameters of the ObamaBus route… for them, McCain is Bush3 and that’s the only, true talking point for them at this point.
Next week, when the 7 month effort to link McCain with Bush3 isn’t workin for da’ Masta, it’ll be a new play from the Clinton Playbook –now on loan and being studied by the worshipful ObamAcoyltes.
posted by Richard II on
If party members support policy x, but their candidates do not. What does that get us?
posted by John on
Even if Obama was to abandon the gay rights positions that he now supports (repealing DOMA provisions being the most likely to fall off his radar) we can expect the judges and justices he would pick to be more supportive on privacy and discrimination issues related to our community.
I have no problem voting for Republicans with pretty strong pro-gay voting records and I definitely support those who would have us reach out to political candidates in both major parties. I was disappointed when the Human Rights Campaign opted to endorse Senator Gordon Smith and his opponent rather than reward a generally pro-gay senator with its unqualified support.
McCain, however, has done nothing to earn our support. He opposed every gay rights measure that was ever proposed. A
Obama offers the gay community more potential and at worst, nothing but gay friendly judges.
posted by tristram on
I think the odds are about 2-1 in favor of a Nov. victory for McCain/Palin. And I’m afraid that queers and our rights and interests are going to be their blood-sacrifice to the Christianist right when they cannot deliver on their other promises. Nothing I have seen in the way of a direct quote or action by either of them indicates that they would feel any compunction at using us in this way.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
John ofers the best that gayDemocrats can muster since McCain-the-Maverick’s position on gay marriage is no different than BarryO-the-Savior’s…
John offers: “Obama offers the gay community more potential and at worst, nothing but gay friendly judges”.
A whisper of a promise… that’s it.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
I am not sure what MM thinks he accomplishes with his obvious and cartoonish mischaracterizations. His comments about the far right’s opposition to McCain would be more convincing at this point had McCain not pandered to them so extensively. Does that pandering get erased by calling McCain a maverick a hundred times? Or has his maverick cred been restored on the strength of his having named as his Veep someone who has been associated with an Alaskan secessionist group?
Contrary to MM, McCain is measurably worse than Obama on SSM. McCain endorses anti-gay state ballot initiatives, while Obama opposes them. Furthermore, Obama supports federal legislation to grant partnership rights to members of same-sex civil unions.
MM claims that “McCain’s candidacy is actually the beginning of that repositioning of the GOP toward moderation and tolerance.” Where is the evidence for this?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
It’s amazing to me, of course, those self-serving, gayDemocrat-preserving McCain-the-reforming-maverick liberal elites will die hard–very hard. For them, like RichardJ from the Temple of Barack, McCain wasn’t good enough despite what RichardJ proves quite nicely. McCain’s issue a, b or c of the day. He wasn’t a real GOPer… he was a RINO. Strange bedfellows indeed.
Like RichardJ from the Temple of Barack, let the independents choose McCain for the GOP. I’m sure that the very argument that GayLeftists wage against McCain in the primaries and lead-up to the primaries is the EXACT refrain the farRight whackjobs, except for the farRight whackjobs it was in the GOP were ALSO using AGAINST their suggestion!
I don’t think the Pope will let him lose the election, let all GOPers lose their respective elections and then, maybe, out of the ashes will rise a new, improved Richard Nixon. Incoming reports from the Temple of Barack state that he would hope for a more progressive, moderate GOP that would embrace gay civil rights.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
MM, you’re potshots would be more clever if they bore any resemblance to reality. Would someone who deified Obama criticize him for opposing same-sex marriage? Unless you are mentally deficient, you know that my support for Obama as a candidate does not remotely resemble worship. So what’s your point, to display your own shortcomings?
Contrary to your suggestion that I am a blind partisan, I explicitly encouraged people who find gay-supportive Republicans to vote for them. Why would a blindly partisan Democrat say that? You therefore know that your charge is false. I guess your clowning amuses you.
For those interested in the facts, here are a couple of useful links.
The Case Against McCain
The Case For Obama
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Here’s another try at the McCain link:
The Case Against McCain
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Editors and IGF readers: the segment directly above is not from me but from someone lacking significant creativity. It’s been done here more than a few times, now. Crafty little gayLefties who value public discourse and civility, no doubt.
===================================
King Richard writes: “Contrary to MM, McCain is measurably worse than Obama on SSM. McCain endorses anti-gay state ballot initiatives, while Obama opposes them. Furthermore, Obama supports federal legislation to grant partnership rights to members of same-sex civil unions.”
Umm, King Richard, did you miss the Notice issued from the Temple of Barack? Your Savior of the Free World has made it clear that he thinks marriage is reserved for 1 man/1 woman… just like McCain.
Your Savior of the Free World has made it clear that gay marriage is an issue to be settled on a state-by-state basis, just like McCain.
On other gay issues, BarryO outperforms McCain but for now it’s all whispers of promises… nothing more from BarryO. No record. No results. No major gay campaign staff except for conventional appointments to head up gay outreach efforts. No major endorsement of the gay lifestyle in the Democrat Party Platform. No strong statement about how he would respond if one of his daughters turned out to be gay. No continued, open dialogue with the gay press. Nothing but whispers of promises.
And we all know what gayDemocrats do with all those promises, eh? The last group of Democrats in the WH said “We kept all the promises we intended to keep.”
McCain is well known within the GOP as having a more progressive social bent than any major GOP candidate in the last 10 years… you just don’t like him because he doesn’t conform to your liberal elitist stance on “Retreat from Iraq” and intends to appoint constructionist judges to the federal courts.
Which is ok… unlike you, we gayGOPers and gayModerates allow dissent, differing opinions… it isn’t a failure of character to think on your own… you can do it, King Richard. I’m sure you can.
As for McCain being the first wave of bringing reform to the GOP, I have to admit that you really stun me with your seeming ignorance of the entire primary process of the last 2 years or McCain’s political journey for the WH over the last 20+ years.
In fact, McCain was courted by your Party of Democrats just 2 years ago to make the big switch and come over to the Dark Side.
(http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/democrats-say-mccain-nearly-abandoned-gop-2007-03-28.html)
It’s simply stunning that a self-avowed gayElitist & gayDemocrat like you KingRichard is so ignorant of the cumulative effects of McCain’s political activity within the GOP over the last 20 years… it is amazing and a stunning admission that you, someone who probably suckles at his morning NYTimes, could even posit the need for proof of McCain’s candidacy and its moderating effects on the nat’l GOP. BTW, it was your NYTimes who first coined the term “Mac the Maverick”… sometimes the truth hurts, doesn’t it?
GOP convention delegates, chosen at the state and county party levels, are overwhelmingly more moderate, more centrist than those in the last 8 nat’l GOP conventions (yeah, RichardJ, that would be 32 years and require you to reflect back to the 1976 convention) and it is largely because McCain’s delegates come from a more pragmatic, centrist political tradition within the Party. They aren’t like the farRight religious types who literally held prayer meetings on the GOP convention floor. They aren’t like the farRight whackjobs who controlled the Platform Committee and Accreditation Committee at past conventions.
McCain has brought moderate, pragmatic political animals here to the StPaul convention and, along with a ton of independent voters in California, Michigan, New Hampshire, New York, Florida, New Jersey and Illinois, has helped begin to change the Party’s focus away from the image your side is struggling to imprint on him. Struggling to imprint –’cause it ain’t foolin’ no one or else your guy would be 15-17-19 points in the lead in this “Year of the Democrats”.
Let’s face it str8 on King Richard, John McCain is no George Bush. The majority of voters know it and primary GOP voters selected McCain because of his maverick, anti-Washington, reformer record.
It’s simply incredible that someone like you who projects this seasoned, informed writer image could be so utterly ignorant of the events of the last 2 years and McCain’s 20+ year gambit for the White House.
Simply stunning admission. And no, that’s not the kind of “thinking outside the box” I had in mind earlier… your admission is more like non-thinking.
As for calling my characterizations “cartoonish”, I’d submit your latest nonsense: “…his Veep (is) someone who has been associated with an Alaskan secessionist group?”
Wow, how cartoonish can you get, RichardJ?
Evidently, pretty far gone on the cartoonish-ness yourself, King Richard. Or, is it ok in your court to suggest the Emperor has no clothes? ‘Cause in this instance, you’re more cartoonish in your writings than just about anyone on IGF.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Wow, King Richard is now linking Obama websites to prove McCain is baaaaaaad for gays! Wow, who would have thunk?
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/08/31/what-justifies-the-lefts-enthusiasm-for-obama/
I guess RichardJ is one of those “gushing” gay ObamAcoyltes that other gays have been asking… “Where’s the beef” on BarryO?
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/08/31/what-justifies-the-lefts-enthusiasm-for-obama/
posted by Michigan-Matt on
BTW, Richard, in your cartoonish characterization of Sarah Palin being part of a secessionist (is that a word intended to link her to the racist secessionists in the 1850’s?) group has already played on JohnAvarosis’s radical leftwing, bomb throwing “AmericaBlog” –the home for all gayLefties.
Congrats on getting your ObamAcolyte talking points from the best source of bile. What? DailyKos didn’t go far enough for you in smearing Palin and her kids and hubbie? Good to see the Politics of Personal Destruction is still going strong at gayDemocrat Central these days.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
And to put to rest King Richard’s incredibly silly question of whether or not McCain is changing the Party… nearly 53% of convention delegates categorize him as being “Liberal or Moderate” on the conventional L-M-C three point scale.
And when asked if convention delegates agree or disagree with McCain on most issues, 93% of delegates agree with McCain. 60% of the delegates think the 2008 primaries were the best way to pick a candidate. Nearly 50% of delegates think George W Bush’s prez has made the GOP weaker… now, what was that about a sea change not in evidence in the GOP’s selection of McCain?
Oh yeah, we weren’t supposed to think outside the box.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
It is rich, MM, for you to charge others with the “politics of personal destruction” given your behavior on these discussion boards. If I am responsible for other people’s personal attacks, fine; but pretty obviously I am not. I merely cited an item that has appeared in news reports. GOP flacks have been saying all weekend how experienced Palin is; so now it’s a personal attack to look into her record?
The facts cited about Obama and McCain are not erased because they are mentioned on a pro-Obama website.
MM’s repeating his “no record, no results” charge does not make it any more true than the first time it was refuted. His pro-gay record (not just promises) goes back to his days in the Illinois state senate, where he championed gay rights legislation. His HRC score for the 109th Congress is 89 (as is Hillary’s), in comparison to 33 for McCain. Neither is perfectly good or perfectly bad, but one is significantly better than the other. McCain’s 33 for the 109th is based on his vote against the Federal Marriage Amendment, which was triple-weighted by HRC on the scorecard due to the importance of the issue.
Here’s a link:
HRC Congressional Scorecard, 109th Congress
BTW, HRC’s scorecard for the 110th Congress hasn’t yet been released, but one key Senate vote (a cloture vote) occurred in September 2007 on the transgender-inclusive hate crimes bill, in which Obama and Clinton both voted the pro-GLBT way, while McCain was the one senator who did not vote.
If the facts are on your side, MM, why the need for the insults and mischaracterizations? (BTW, given that I have refuted your falsehoods and distortions before and it was like talking to a noise generator, I see no point in going further.)
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
One point I forgot to mention earlier: I found much to admire about McCain when he ran eight years ago, although I still considered him too conservative. But the far right’s reluctance to trust McCain does not erase all the pandering he has done to appease them more recently. Yes, he has gone off the GOP reservation more than many other Republican senators; and I would be more impressed with that if his more recent statements did not go against that more independent record.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
It’s simply stunning that a self-avowed gayElitist & gayDemocrat like you Richard Roundtree. Some might think it is amazing and a stunning admission that you is so ignorant of the cumulative effects of McCain’s political activity. John Shaft, that would be 32 years and require you to reflect back to the 1976 convention. You were probably too busy being a private dick to notice. They aren’t like the farRight religious types who literally held prayer meetings in a red barn. Someone who probably suckles at his morning NYTimes, while the majority of voters know it and primary GOP voters selected McCain because of the GOP over the last 20 years could even posit the need for proof of McCain’s candidacy. A bird in the tree is worth whatever in a bush…or something. Approvingly, it was your NYTimes who first coined the term “Mac the Knife”… sometimes the truth hurts, doesn’t it or something?
GOP convention delegates, chosen at the state and county party levels, are overwhelmingly more moderate, more centrist and (frankly) better looking than those in the last 8 GOP conventions. They aren’t like the farRight whackjobs on the GOP convention floor who controlled the Platform Committee and Accreditation Committee at past conventions.
McCain has brought moderate, pragmatic political animals here to the GOP convention. Some of them lack proper rabies vaccinations. Mr. McCain has helped begin to change the Party’s focus away from the image your side is struggling to imprint on him. Maybe he should hire Takashi Miike to advise him on imprints?
John McCain is no George Bush, because it ain’t fooling no one or else your guy would be 15-17-19 points in the lead in this. His favorite pants are his maverick, anti-Washington, reformer recording pants.
This will not be the last simply stunning admission. All this plus the fact that our admission is more like non-thinking.
Wow, how cartoonish can you get? I half-expect PlasticMan himself to show up soon.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
I am not sure why MM brought up “Shaft” actor Richard Roundtree, but in case he is referring to me, I am NOT a “self-avowed gayElitist.” I am a registered Democrat, though (speaking of independence) I have gone off that reservation many times, including volunteering for a Republican candidate and working amicably with the local Log Cabin chapter, as well as writing several articles for the national Log Cabin’s centrist think tank. That’s because as a centrist I have a lot in common with them, your mockery and falsehoods notwithstanding.
During the primary season I regarded McCain as the GOP’s best chance for winning the election. They deserve credit for nominating him in comparison to the other choices this year. Unfortunately, he has run away from most of his maverick positions in an effort to secure the nomination. And aside from all that, he is dangerously bellicose, and his gay-related record and positions are much worse than Obama’s, despite your assertions to the contrary which I have refuted with evidence. Your resumed name-calling is not a counter-argument.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Hey Richard, I didn’t even write that 1:30 PM piece… more of the gayLefties here getting creative with the handle “Michigan-Matt”.
Try to have a chat with your well-intentioned but seriously misguided “friends” ok?
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Isn’t that what we were doing?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
No, “we” weren’t because you’ve shown a high level of the usual gayLeft intolerance of opinions which dissent from the approved true creed of the gayLeft –as espoused by the gayDemocrats fronting as gay activists for the Democrat Party (HRC, etc).
The friends I was mentioning are the guys on your side of the aisle… engaging in petty, devious typical political campaign style pranks.
But that’s ok, RichardJ. I understand you’re a lot like Richard2… willing to tolerate and even cheer on uncivil rhetoric and pranks because, to you, it probably seems like it’s warranted, eh?
But let’s be clear about your supposed now “centrist” credentials… you were writing for the LogCabinRepublicans when they were controlled by inside-the-beltway elitist gayDemocrats with a marginal (R) after their name… they were in bed (literally and figuratively) with the gayLeft, did the Masta’s bidding, tried to lock up the gayGOP vote for the Masta on the Democrat Plantation and finally got booted after ripping off the organization for 2 years.
Right, for centrist credentials those sure are compelling RichardJ.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
And not to defeat your claim to political insight, you were debating the notion that McCain’s candidacy doesn’t represent a shift in the rank & file GOP… as I contend quite illuminatingly above.
The numbers are compelling, RichardJ. The GOP delegates here at the St Paul convention are decidedly more moderate, more centrist than the Dem delegates in Denver last week… and I think the Dem delegates were more moderate than their Prez pick. It’s why BarryO chose an acceptance speech that ran the ObamaBus to the position of a generic Democrat candidate in a Congressional race… he can’t win as himself.
Back to St Paul and the nonsense that McCain doesn’t represent a seachange moment… 53% of the pragmatic, centrist delegates here think McCain is a liberal or moderate. 93% agree with him on nearly every single major political issue of the day. Nearly 60% think this year’s primary contest –high on open GOP primaries and independent voters– was the best way to pick the GOP Prez nominee.
What was that about McCain’s candidacy doesn’t herald a shift in the GOP? What was that about the GOP is just more of the same GeoBush?
I know. I know. You can’t agree because to admit those facts would require you to give up one of the gayDemocrats’ biggest talking points: McCain is just a 3rd Bush term.
And you can’t do that because you’ll have your place at the gayDemocrat table taken by a labor goon, a corrupt innercity mayor, an illegal immigrant or a federal employee who hasn’t been at his/her desk in 4 months.
I don’t want you to do that, RichardJ.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
MM, my published record shows that I am not a leftist. Obviously, anyone can say anything, as you demonstrate by persisting in your false characterization of me. I don’t recall seeing you explain how I got six articles published by David Horowitz if I am a leftist. But apparently, your idea of respectful discourse is that you get to define yourself, and you get to define your interlocutors as well. Yet somehow that makes me the one with delusions of majesty? Um, no.
You keep harping on your allegation that there are devastating facts that I cannot admit, as you cite stats about convention delegates. Who in the world cares about the convention delegates? It’s what McCain does and says that interests me, and we’ve discussed some of that. Of all the GOP primary candidates, he was the one I liked the best. He was the one that I thought had the best chance against the Democrats. These were not astonishing feats of wisdom on my part, of course, as they were pretty much the conventional wisdom. But he even caved in to Bush ultimately on torture. So where’s the maverick? If it’s making a rash choice for VP, that won’t cut it.
posted by Rob on
Yikes! Roger Simon is getting a lot of flak in the comments section about his son and his husband being fathers, from wingnuts. It’s like the freepers came out of their hive. I thought Pajamas had a better crowd than WorldNutDaily.
John:
On the issue of gay marriage, I?m somewhat ambivalent. However, the gay men I?ve encountered tend towards many, and short, relationships. I?m not sure I?d trust them to be responsible, loving, long term parents. Marriage is for children, and for that there must be a mother and a father. Can we ask which role your son plays here? What happens to these innocents if the two gay men decide to go their separate ways? Children are not decorations to display, nor do they validate a bad idea. The decision your son and his partner made to bring these little babies in to the world was probably not the wisest choice anyone ever made.
I hope for their sake that you and your wife are fully prepared to assume some responsibility for the well being of these grand daughters should that gay marriage go toes up.
[…]
Saltherring:
There is a higher authority than the government. God, in his wisdom and compassion, has determined what is good and what is evil, and He will ultimately judge all humanity by the standard He has established, which is His Word. He states in Romans 1 that those who ?approve? of those who practice evil (in this case, homosexuality) will suffer the same fate as the evildoers themselves. Perhaps you should read the book, Mr. Simon.
[…]
Dark Helmet:
Under no circumstancse should same sex people be ? married? .
Under non circumstances should a same sex couple have children to raise.
And it goes on and on… Sure isn’t limited to the Left. NDT, do you sympathize and concur with the first quote, about the ‘many, and short, relationships’, an thus the distrust in Roger Simon’s son as capable father is justified?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
RichardJ, we’ll leave aside your protestations that your writings prove you are a centrist -it’s just deceptive rhetoric on your part intended to mask your true leftist, elite values and ample track record of same.
But for now… RichardJ queries: “Who in the world cares about the convention delegates?”
Well, you should my one-Party-4-all-gays friend.
I argued above that McCain’s candidacy represented a seachange moment in the GOP and, I think, a harbinger of a more moderate, progressive GOP that –IF we believe the sincerity of gayLefties here– should be supported by all gays because a realignment might help remove the influence of the farRight anti-gay whackjobs from the political scene… or, at the least, push them off to a 3rd Party oblivion status.
gayLefites ought to drop their OH-Baam-AH chants, step aside from their quest to have an emptysuited GQ Model with a fabulous set of teeth run the USA and support this seachange shift in the GOP. Guys exactly like YOU, RichardJ.
Likely? Heck, no. What self-respecting gay (your term) doesn’t want to wake up each morning, get their gayFix of MattyBoyLaurer on Today, see a prettyboi in the WH EastRoom embrace HugoChavez and feel content that all is right with the gayWorld because it’s a good hair day for our styling Prez OH-Baam-AH? Yeah, that’s far more compelling a choice than participating in the potential realignment of the GOP.
You ask RichardJ, “Who in the world cares about the convention delegates?”
You should, my preening King. The delegates represent the beginning of that realignment as I pointed above and you will ignore ’til death. It started when the GOP natl committee chose to induce states to have open primaries and INVITE the participation of political independents into the GOP arena… contrast THAT to the Democrats who wanted the farLeft determining who got into closed caucuses and further concentrate their power within the chanting crowds leading all the way up to the Temple of Barack celebrity nonsense in Denver.
Who should care? You should care, RichardJ.
You offered that the gayGOPers needed to lose elections before they got ?the message? to clean out the riff-raff –a remedy that my farRight conservative friends curiously offered a few months ago when DennyHastert was being chopped off at the legs by angry GOPers and it looked like moderate McCain-the-Maverick was going to take the sweepstakes and Party away from them. They wanted to purge the Party of liberals like McCain; you want to purge Party of conservatives like McCain.
Seems strange, RichardJ, you’re suggesting the same strategy to “fix” the GOP that my farRight whackjob friends were advancing a few months ago… hmmmmmmm. Lose elections, let the phoenix rise. Strange bedfellows you have, indeed.
Of course, the fix has already started as my stats on the delegates prove… and McCain’s rise to the nomination demonstrates.
But you can’t see that, can you RichardJ?
To do so would require you to reverse the whole nonsense about McCain = Bush 3rd Term rhetoric… and that would get gayLefties kicked from the DNC Altar of Power in the Temple of Barack.
So RichardJ, the answer to your query is that YOU should care about the GOP delegates and the realignment of the Party under McCain-the-Maverick. It was the answer you were looking for in that fix to a solution of how we (gays) change the GOP.
Of course, you weren’t after a fix… you were after a crippling move intended to advance your candidate, no? Nothing like the blood-letting of a partisan internecine battle in the GOP to help BarryO slide into office.
Sorry RichardJ, the answer is for you to set aside that quest to have a GQ’ish model in the White House and fall on your sword for the betterment of all gays by supporting McCain now –because he is the real change agent and it could have lasting effect on the long term political interest of all gays by changing the political landscape, minimizing the influence of a group who you CLAIM has been anti-gay and hostile to our interests.
Can I have a picture of you falling on that sword? Taking one, as it were, in the gut not the butt for the betterment of all gays?
That’s why you should care about the GOP delegates, RichardJ. Of course you don’t; it’s all insincere rhetoric on your part –a lot like BarryO.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Rob, I think your VERY selective choice of comments from Simon’s blog shows your true colors… and they aren’t pretty.
I like these, in contrast, to your smearingly snide choices:
heather writes: “congratulations on your grandchildren! And congratulations on your son and partner?s going the very difficult route they have taken, in order to bring those children into the world. They will be wonderful parents.”
ahem writes: “As a Christian, I am not against giving homosexuals the same civil rights as married couples?this is the United States and everyone should enjoy equal rights under the law?I?m against co-opting the word, ?marriage?. Marriage is a sacrament of the church. To re-define it is to take one more step in toward making the sacraments of Christianity and Orthodox Judaism unconstitutional and illegal. That?s what the fuss is about: stop trying to criminalize traditional religion.”
huan writes: “firstly, congrats
secondly, i support civil union for gays as well as straights. such unions should have all the legal status necessary to protect those within the union.
i do think marriage is about children. thus they should have certain tax breaks.”
Yeah, Rob, those Pajama Media WorldNetDaily kooks are a send-up.
Shall we gather some DailyKos and MyDD comments about Sarah “Palin’s love child with John McCain”? Or her “alcoholic and abusive” hubbie? Or how about your gayLeft brothers talking about how BarryO is “probably gay and doesn’t know it”… the wife and kids are just cover?
Thanks for the quotes… I like mine better and it’s more represenational of the overall comments at Simon’s blog.
Wanna try again?
posted by Rob on
Rob, I think your VERY selective choice of comments from Simon’s blog shows your true colors… and they aren’t pretty.
Keep deluding yourself Matt. I recognize Pajamas Media as legitimate compared to WorldNetDaily or FreeRpublic, at least with a good portion of its bloggers. Of course there are some decent and great comments, but if you read more below, you’ll see a lot more wingnuts leaking in. I’m just showing a partisan like you that it isn’t rosy in right-wing land, and all the the darkness is in left-wing land. For the record, I equally condemn these comments as those hateful comments made concerning Mary Cheney’s daughter. Let’s see if you can do the same thing, but I won’t hold my breath.
posted by Rob on
Sorry, I meant not all the darkness is in left-wing land.
posted by bryanj on
self hating gays, like many on this site, do more than embarrass the rest of the homosexual population, they put us at significant risk. having grown up in wyoming, i heard many of these arguments, usually less eloquently put, right before getting my ass kicked or my tires slashed or a brick through my parent’s front window.
i know you guys think you’re doing good, but you’re not.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Rob posits “For the record, I equally condemn these comments as those hateful comments made concerning Mary Cheney’s daughter. Let’s see if you can do the same thing, but I won’t hold my breath.”
If I undestood what you’re asking, you’re asking me to condemn the farLeft’s vicious and hatefilled comments hoping that Vice President Cheney’s newest grandchild die a horrible death in the crib?
Sure I condemn those comments –but, like your self-professed condemnation– it doesn’t change the price of gas.
Maybe writing with some clarity would help others comprehend what you’re saying, Rob?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
bryanj comments: “self hating gays, like many on this site, do more than embarrass the rest of the homosexual population, they put us at significant risk.”
Care to hazard a few names, bryanj?
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
MM, if I believe in “one-Party-4-all-gays” as you say, why have I encouraged people to vote for gay-friendly Republicans? Why have I volunteered for a Republican? Not that you care about evidence.
Your obsessive focus on the RNC delegate polls you cite seems to have blinded you to what is going on at the convention, which is that the hard right is beside itself with joy over the choice of Palin, their ideological soulmate. Where is the evidence in what McCain has been saying lately that he represents the change I am seeking?
As for your claim that far-right types see their hopes of long-term salvation in a big defeat: maybe they do, but my only point is that a major loss by the GOP is the only hope for gay Republicans to fight their way back into relevance within the party. An opportunity is not a guarantee of success. McCain is terribly anti-gay. Even his opposition to FMA (on states’-rights grounds) is undone by the fact that he then supports state anti-gay ballot initiatives.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
RichardJ, oh yes, we’re sooooo blinded by our attention to the seachange moment within the GOP that McCain-the-Maverick’s candidacy presents, we missed the finally Republican Log Cabin Republicans endorsing McCain-Palin. I write “finally” because for a long time, the LCRs were under the financial sway of gayDemocrat donors and doing the Masta’ bidding to denude gayGOPers of influence within the Party.
I think that was when you were “writing for” the LogCabineers, no?
The LCR’s issued this little press ditty, which lets all your hot air out of your silly balloon of “let ’em go down in defeat and then gayGOPers can rise from the ashes”.
LCR issued the following
“Those of us gathered here this week for the Republican National Convention are honored for this opportunity?an opportunity to participate in the political process, to share our stories with our fellow Republicans, and, to do everything we can to ENSURE John McCain BECOMES THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
On the most important issue that LGBT Americans faced in the last decade?the federal marriage amendment?Send. John McCain stood with us. Now we stand with him.
He is an inclusive Republican who is focusing the GOP on unifying our party around the core principles that bring our nation together. In recent years, too many Republicans have used divisive social issues in an effort to win elections. Sen. McCain is a different kind of Repubilcan.
He understands that we lost our majority in Congress in 2006 because we lose sight of core conservative issues and instead focused on divisive social issues.
. . . .
Our party is about to nominate a man who is going to put our party back on track. We are going to nominate a man who understands the crucial challenges our country faces . . . . I am so glad we have a nominee who is focused on the issues that unite us as Republicans?and the issues that are going to unite this country and bring the RIGHT change of change to our nation.
I am pleased to announce that Log Cabin?s national board voted last night to formally endorse John McCain for President of the United States and Governor Sarah Palin for Vice President of the United States.”
Now, what was all that spinning you were doing about your self-serving proposal that gayGOPers needed to let the Party fail in order to regain influence?
RichardJ, your “earnest” political FinalSolution for gayGOPers is a fake as your centrist attestations and claims not to be a Catholic bashing bigot.
By the way, RichardJ, I wasn’t “obsessing” about the GOP delegates to the convention… I was trying to get through that ten brick thick head of yours that McCain’s candidacy represents a seachange moment in the Party… it took three rounds to get YOU to focus. Ritalin might help you in the future.
When can we expect a photo of you falling on that sword to advance the interests of all gays, not just your gayDemocrat and gayLeft peers?
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
MM, you can repeat your claims about McCain representing a sea change for the GOP a hundred times, but that doesn’t make it especially plausible given the way he has been running his campaign and the choices he has made.
I honestly don’t know what you are talking about regarding previous Log Cabin leadership having been under the sway of Democrats. If you have evidence, kindly provide it.
I am aware that Log Cabin endorsed McCain the other day. I read their statement. As I have already pointed out, McCain’s vote against FMA (which LCR makes a big deal of), for which I gave him credit in my latest column and in discussions above, isn’t worth much given his strong support for state anti-gay ballot measures. And McCain’s choice of Palin, if he wins, puts a far-right fanatic a heartbeat away from the presidency. Not the kind of change I am looking for.
I think you are deluding yourself, MM.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
RichardJ continues the falsehood and self-serving mantra of the gayLeft and gayDemocrats by offering: “McCain is terribly anti-gay.” Strange to hear that from someone who thinks gay GOPers need to abandon the Party and let it fial on Election Day in order to rebuild (yeah, nothing self-serving in that proposal, eh RichardJ?)
McCain is not anti-gay, RichardJ. That’s the image that you want to project and need to project to keep the gaySlave vote down on the Democrat Masta’ Plantation. Unlike BarryO, McCain has four senior-ranking gays working on his campaign… BarryO –just like HowieDean– relegates competent gay activists to the broom closet to do outreach with gays… “Don’t bug me now, I’m talking with Pat Robertson on the 700 Club!”
McCain and BarryO are the same on the key points about gay marriage. Both believe marriage is between 1 man, 1 woman. Both believe that marriage issues are best settled at the state level. Both know that gay marriage has been the #1 issue of the gay civil rights movement for more than decade.
You may not be able to handle it, but on gay marriage, McCain-the-Maverick and BarryO have the same positions. In fact, there were other Democrats who had better positions on the issue but you couldn’t be bothered supporting them because you wanted the quintessential EmptySuitLiberal as your Party’s standard bearer.
gayDemocrats sold out our community’s long term interests in order to get an anti-war, very Left liberal into the nominee’s box. I’m sorry you chose so poorly.
I think a pair of mavericks who buck the political establishment, have a record of real reform and aren’t the typical inside-the-beltway politicians TRUMPS your pair of 1) no experience but great teeth and 2) no teeth but a great Xerox machine that photocopy other people’s speechs on change.
I’d rather our community fought for marriage equality in federal tax benefits, access to medical decisions, insurance and SS benefits of survivorship, etc than pushing against the conventional political tides in order to have a piece of paper without meaningful or substantial benefit. All the while shoving it to religious types by de-sanctifying marriage.
But you go on about gay marriage being everything under the sun… because BarryO and McCain hold the same positions on those two important gay marriage predicates.
And all the spin and chanting won’t change that immutable fact.
Ready to fall on that sword you’ve been brandishing –it’s for the long term benefit of ALL gays to shift the influence within the GOP to a more moderate, progressive position?
“McCain is anti-gay”? That’s as silly as saying Obama has executive experience because he’s mounted a presidential political campaign.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
RichardJ does the usual gayDemocrat tap-dance when confronted with his own logic: “I honestly don’t know what you are talking about regarding previous Log Cabin leadership having been under the sway of Democrats. If you have evidence, kindly provide it.”
Go over to GayPatriot and search under Log Cabin Republicans, RichardJ. You’ll get the inside scoop from several loyal LCRers who were witnesses to history on that score. Not that you’re sincere on this interest.
Usually, you ask for evidence, it’s given to you and then you reduce to an absurd conclusion, cluck your tongue and look for any way to spin the evidence into another absurd conclusion.
“Honestly, I don’t know what you’re talking about…” what a fat piece of lard that prevarication presents.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
MM, why aren’t you willing to be even minimally civil? What is the point of challenging even my statement that I was unaware of LCR having been under the control of Democrats? Now you refer me to Gay Patriot, which I haven’t found a reliable source, but I will check it out.
I see no point in arguing with you further, since (A) you even dismiss the clear fact of McCain’s anti-gay voting record and positions (not 100 percent anti-gay, as I already noted, but substantially so, in contrast to Obama’s much more gay-positive record and positions, which I am repeatedly acknowledging are also not perfect but are far better than McCain’s); and (B) you are so relentlessly and pointlessly vituperative that any reasonable discussion is impossible.
If your calling me leftist makes me so, then I am a leftist. And so on with your other charges. There is, however, a record that other readers can check for themselves. I have seldom encountered so much dishonesty and incivility from someone who simultaneously accuses others of those very sins. Reading your messages is like listening to the latest GOP talking points, which now claim that any examination of Palin’s qualifications for the vice presidency amount to sexism. Whatever.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
For those interested in MM’s purported evidence that Log Cabin has been under the sway of Democrats, here are a couple of examples from Gay Patriot’s archives:
Dem “Plant” 1
Dem “Plant” 2
There are more items in the archive about General Kerr, but you get the idea.
A couple of LCR members who could not make up their minds between Log Cabin and Hillary Clinton do suggest to me some idealogical muddle on their part, but hardly constitute evidence that Log Cabin was “under the sway” of Democrats.
The blogger at Gay Patriot made it clear in other posts in the fall of 2006 that he had waited to re-join LCR until Patrick Guerriero stepped down, because LCR under Guerriero had declined to endorse GWB for president in 2004. Needless to say, GWB early that year had endorsed the Federal Marriage Amendment. Gay Patriot of course has plenty to say on all this stuff, but I see no point in having a gay Republican group at all if you’re even going to swallow FMA and still endorse the nominee. At least McCain is better that THAT.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
RichardJ climbs the throne again! Arbiter of all that is gay, politically acceptable for gays and fair. Well, we gotta expect that in the Court of King Richard, eh?
No King Richard you get a D- on your research project.
I was suggesting you look to DanBlatt’s & Burce’s read on the role of the old leadership at LCR and there sources of funding by gayDemocrat beltway groups who wanted to use the LCR to embarass W… the control over the LCR went back to the fall of 1999… long before W endorsed the FMA.
By the way, do you recall that W endorsed the FMA as a way to protect the sacred nature of marriage and went on to point out that gays should be treated with “kindness, goodwill and decency” even if they have views in diametrical opposition to those you hold?
Do you also recall that when candidate W was vetting people for Cabinet and WH and ExecOff positions, he said that gays would be welcomed in his Administration? The guy sitting next to him when he said it was Dick Cheney.
But you go on about his endorsement of FMA… because to gayDemocrats like you, gay marriage is soooooooo bloody important you’ll overlook your own candidate’s position on it with the whisper of a promise that maybe something will happen if you just get gays to hoe the rows in the field.
King Richard declares: “Gay Patriot, which I haven’t found a reliable source”. Funny King Richard, IGF links to Gay Patriot and it is generally perceived within the conservative and Republican and moderate gay blogging community as highly credible and noteworthy… of course, for a gayLefty like you, if it isn’t DailyKos or MyDD, how can one believe it?
Next time you do your research over at GayPatriot, try going beyond the first few headlines… one of the significant issues GP harped on was how the LCR’s under Pat Guerriero was able to spend $1m+ on anti-Bush TV ads in 2004… and then there’s the problem of Guerriero’s oh-too-cozy relationship with moneybags Tim Gill… a long standing gayLeft activist who makes being gay a single issue political affair.
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/06/01/log-cabin-meltdown-part-300/
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/04/12/tim-gill-the-gay-george-soros/
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2006/09/29/log-cabin-belatedly-raps-dems-for-blocking-hivaids-funding/
I wonder why you persist in this characterization of there’s only one truth, your truth?
OH-Baam-AH, OH-Baam-AH. Gosh, you gayDemocrats treat it like a mantra for prayer.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
As a matter of fact, I wrote an article about 4,000 words long in the aftermath of GWB’s endorsement of FMA, which was published by Salon after FrontPageMag.com refused to run it. It begins thus:
Mar 2, 2004 | After calling for a constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage without once mentioning the dreaded words “gay” or “lesbian,” President George W. Bush ended on a conciliatory note: “We should also conduct this difficult debate in a manner worthy of our country, without bitterness or anger. In all that lies ahead, let us match strong convictions with kindness and goodwill and decency.” This reminds me of Dame Edna Everage, who, after saying something horribly cruel about her bridesmaid Madge Allsop, habitually adds, “I mean that in a nurturing and caring way.”
In other words, MM, give us all a break already. As to your evidence: Sure, I ask you to cite the evidence, you tell me to look under Log Cabin Republicans over at GayPatriot, which I do, and when I don’t find and link to everything you deem relevant then somehow it’s another reason to insult me. But all of this is beside the point. You are so far gone that you even dispute a clearly factual claim that McCain has an extensive anti-gay record. Go to http://www.lgbtforobama.com and you can find one of the ads McCain taped in 2006 endorsing the Arizona anti-gay ballot initiative. None of this is about me, but somehow MM will make it about me. Pathetic, really. It would be nice if we could have serious discussions on these boards instead of anonymous people spewing bile while cleverly accusing everyone else of doing it. How stupid you must think we all are.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
King Richard, preening those feathers of self-righteous indignation tells us “In other words, MM, give us all a break already”.
Frankly, the key is “in other words”… you could have spared us all a lot of hot air and gayLeft distemper if you had just said concisely what was on your mind, Mr 4000 word essay-boi.
Of course only King Richard knows what is correct for gays to think and speak. Why, isn’t IGF the new Court of King Richard? Yes, all hail King Richard.
Let’s be clear, King Richard. You projected an image of knowing everything there was to know about LCRs and when I told you the past and discredited leadership of the LCRs catered to the gayLeft and gayDemocrats, you said “Prove it.”
Naturally, I thought, like with all the other occasions people have risent to the task, provided you with ample info and you’ve elected to discredit them by taking the smallest kernel of their testamentary evidence and twisting it until it crushes, you’d do the exact same thing in this case of the LCRs being under the sway of gayLeft and gayDemocrat groups.
I gave you a place to learn: Gay Patriot. A web linked on IGF’s site, btw King Richard.
You didn’t take the advice under honest consideration and instead wanted to use anything said there to discredit and demean an honorable, widely read, greatly respected blog –far more respect than you force from your subjects, King Richard.
And then you complain when someone dares point out that you got it fundamentally wrong and your effort shows you weren’t in earnest???
Good God, man, you defined chutzpah on that one. Your “act” of outrage reminds me of another famous line of the Church Lady on SNL, “Aren’t YOU the special one.”
No King Richard, you claimed, mimicing the gayLeft refrain, McCain-the-Maverick is anti-gay and has an extensive anti-gay record.
What utter gayLeft, DailyKos, BlogAmerica, MyDD nonsense you can spin with a str8 face… or gay face. Evidently a lot because to prove the point, you link readers to an Obama site! Well, that defines unbiased.
BarryO and McCain have the same position on the most important gayLeft agenda item: gay marriage. Both think it is a sacred union between 1 man and 1 woman. Both think it is best left to the states to decide. Both know it’s critically important to the gayLeft’s agenda.
Now, once we get the gayRoyal here to agree to those simple three points… the rush of King Richard is to point left, right, up and down and sputter but… but… but on these issues McCain is anti-gay and has an anti-gay record. “It’s true, it’s true, the Crown has made it clear…” I thought we were about ready to bury Camelot? A last refrain, eh, King Richard?
Well, King Richard, I can tell you that you are wrong. I personally know from more than a dozen firsthand experiences and exposures to McCain going back to the summer of 1998, McCain is not anti-gay. I’ve shared a few of those with our IGF readers.
Of course, the gayLefties here pine: “You’re a stooge. You’re like the Jews working for the Nazis. He hates you.” Ummmm, right you are angry crazy uncle –oh wait, isn’t that how BarryO tried to dismiss his spiritual mentor and political advisor’s bigoted, racist and unAmerican rants? Yeah, just a crazy uncle, that one.
We all know you don’t have a personal, firsthand knowledge of BarryO’s inclinations on this subject and all we have are the whispers of promises to perform for gays at a later date.
Cool. My experience trumps your pretty words… sounds like the presidential campaign dust-up, eh King Richard? Experience versus empty, pretty words.
Whispers of promises. We had the exact same thing from SlickWilly and his Administration went on to support DOMA and DADT and a litany of other items that demonstrate he wasn’t as pro-gay as the gayLeft and gayDemocrats led us all to believe in the lead-up to 1992.
SlickWilly’s #1 domestic advisor “We kept all the campaign promises we intended to keep” as SlickWilly at the end passed out pardons like suckers and stole the furniture out of the White House.
McCain anti-gay? Only to a gayLeftie who is worried that Sarah Palin’s ascendancy within the Party and her resonation with Indepedent voters and real Americans will herald a resurgence of “traditional values” in our great land. That’s why you panic these days, King Richard, and flail about like a hooked tuna on the deck of trawler.
McCain anti-gay? Only to the gayDemocrats fighting for political survival and table scapes at the Masta’ spread.
Nice try at spinning your victimhood and pity party into a self-serving attempt to isolate gays who dissent from the King Richard text… but you really need to get over the alligator tear-letting and try to debate the issues, King Richard.
Don’t look now, the Emperor has no clothes. And McCain is about as anti-gay as BarryO… but that doesn’t matter to the gayLeft’s agenda.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
King Richard tries the smear of the aged, old tired gayLeft blogger “Pathetic, really. It would be nice if we could have serious discussions on these boards instead of anonymous people spewing bile while cleverly accusing everyone else of doing it. How stupid you must think we all are.”
How anonymous can a guy be who’s shared as much of my personal story as I have, King Richard? About as anonymous as you? All these long-winded retorts and you’re just now getting to the point of admitting you are a gayLeftie who wants BarryO elected at any cost because he’s a liberal elitist like you?
Anonymous indeed. You’re better than that, RichardJ… but not sooo good that you won’t stoop to intimidating people to leave “your” site at IGF.
I guess we should expect that kind of intimidation from a guy who bragged he would physically accost a man of the cloth if he didn’t comport to King Richard’s sense of political correctness.
And you have the gall to call others “pathetic”? What a joke.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Again, IGF readers and Editors… the post at 8:59 AM isn’t mine. Is DUMP (aka Charles Wilson) still hanging around?
posted by Richard II on
“I am so sick and tired of King Kike Richard and the Negro Richard II telling me what is right and wrong. Why can’t you both just go away with yesterday’s garbage?”
IGF Editor: Michigan-Matt has made racist and anti-Semitic comments directed at two people here. I demand that you repremand him, or else you risk appearing to endorse such bigotry.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Richard2, well, you are either an unwitting dupe or intellectually dishonest or both.
The comments you refer to as mine are NOT; they are likely the comments of one of your fellow gayDemocrat pals who used to post as Charles Wilson… now he posts as DUMP.
He’s been kicked off at least 14 blogs in the last 2 years and his multiple IP addresses have been blocked by another 4 blogs who have battled his special, DirtyDemocratCampaignTricks tactics far longer than I’ve been around.
That’s why I commented that those anti-semitic and racist comments at 8:59AM were NOT mine.
Do you even read, Richard2? Oh yeah, in a second we’ll hear that on your resume you were once also an english teacher… in addition to all the other jobs you’ve claimed here as proof of your special credibility on an issue.
posted by Richard II on
Michigan-Matt;
Do you have a split personality? Do you have some sort of mental disability? You clearly said, “I am so sick and tired of King Kike Richard and the Negro Richard II telling me what is right and wrong. Why can’t you both just go away with yesterday’s garbage?”
Know you are trying to squirm out of it. Are you going to use the typical, “I was drunk” excuse? Or are you going to go for the, “I was abused as a child” excuse? Your racial and religious bigotry has been exposed for the entire world to see and you do not even have the guts to admit it.
Growing up as a Southern black kid, from a ‘mixed’ (my mother was white Jewish, my father was black Baptist) family, I have dealt with your kind of hateful coward many times before.
I got into the ROTC and the Armed Forces to help pay for my education and because I love my country. Later on I got involved in some NGO’s (i.e. Peace Corps) and later some private consulting work overseas (i.e. Africa, Asia and the Middle East).
Was I a English teacher? Nope. Am I perfect? God no. I spent a good number of years buried deep in the closet, it was another era, and lucky to be on good terms with my now adult children and my ex-wife.
I am an Independent. Sometimes I agree with the Republicans. Sometimse I agree with the Democrats and sometimes I disagree with what both of them say or do.
If it seems like I am more critical of th GOP, well this is a form about LGBT issues and frankly, the Party of Lincoln isnt run by socially liberal, fiscally conservative people.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Richard2, why do you continue this flatout distortion of what I’ve said and others have said here on IGF?
There’s no spilt personality, my gayDemocrat friend.
But there is a HUGE problem at your end with comprehension.
The remarks you attribute incorrectly to me are from the resident IGF troll who sometimes posts as DUMP but used to post as Charles Wilson. He’s a former gayDemocrat delegate to the 2000 and 2004 natl conventions. He’s been an irritant to more blogs than I’ve visited, I think.
Now, exactly where you read the troll’s racist and anti-Semitic comments there was a disclaimer that YOU HAD TO HAVE READ when you read those remarks. It’s right next to those remarks and clearly disclaims them for IGF readers and editors.
You, however, are the only one who seems to continue to miss that disclaimer and, frankly, have been spreading distorted claims on several other threads here at IGF.
Your conduct has been dishonorable at its worst, intellectually dishonest at its best.
It’s time for you to apologize. Recant these distortions you continue to spread about me.
While you’re at it, time for some apologies for calling me a “serial liar” too Richard2 –which is against IGF policies.
That’s 2 apologies now.
posted by Richard II on
MM;
Yes, you are a serial liar.
Yes, you did make racist and anti-Semitic comments, some of which you claim were actually said by someone else posing as you. Yeah right, was he a one-armed man, framed by the LAPD with a bloody glove and a dress stain?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Richard2, the cowardly lion, returns looking for his “Courage”.
Sorry Richard2, the IGF policy is that you shouldn’t call people liars… even if you don’t read very well when it comes to comprehension.
The simple truth is that you shot off your mouth before making sure of your facts, tried to smear me when you were told what had happened and continue to play the deceitful games your reputation here proves.
I’m sorry you aren’t a civil or masculine enough man to admit when you’re squarely wrong. We’ve seen lots of cowards like that in blog-land… Charles Wilson/DUMP and others.
Character is in short supply for you. I don’t know why I thought you’d be responsible for your wrongheadedness even if you can’t be responsible for your words, thoughts or deeds.
The IGF editors have been briefed on your antics… I asked them to hold off removing your posts so that anyone who wants may point to your irresponsible and grossly uncivil conduct.
Richard2, you aren’t beyond contempt… you’re BELOW contempt. Shame on you.
posted by Richard II on
MM;
Let us review. Shall we?
* You continue to lie and distort my political affliation and beliefs. Yet, I am suppose to believe you when you claim that the racist and anti-Semitic comments made under your name were made by some one else.
* You accuse me — an African American — of being pro-slavery and living under a slave master.
The laundry list of your lies, partisan propaganda and distortation and malicious, hateful commnets and innunedos is too long to mention here.
You are a coward and a bully. You should aplogize for your actions, but instead you try to deny responsbility.
Your behavior borders a mental illness and shame on the IGF editors for tolerating such uncivil and malicious conduct.
Your actions undermine the effort to make the conservative movement or Mccain appealing to anyone, let alone gay people of color.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Richard2, nice try at spinning but that won’t even get you a dance at the Dervish Ball.
Here’s the real deal… I’ve never accused you of being pro-slavery. You have demonstrated a long history here at IGF of being unable or unwilling to comprehend what you read.
I dare say, I can appreciate why you’ve had so many occupations in your life… if reading comprehension escapes your skill set.
You indicated to IGF editors that I called you a racist and slurred others with anti-Semitic remarks. If that was the case, why didn’t they remove “my” remarks? Because, Richard2, they know it was a bogus posting.
You knew it was too, because it took you several hours after the disclaimer was posted before you started in on your little mission of mistruths… here and in other threads.
Nice try at spinning. The only fact you can admit to at this point is 1)agree with the IGF editors that a troll made those comments, 2) find some character and admit you were wrong, 3) cover your shame by doing the right thing and apologizing.
Of course, for you, that would mean borrowing some character and spine… but I think you can do that since you easily steal the label “independent” more often that BarryO plays the raceCard.
posted by Rob on
Sure I condemn those comments –but, like your self-professed condemnation– it doesn’t change the price of gas.
The price of gas? You think drilling in Alaska will actually change that in the short run?
Maybe writing with some clarity would help others comprehend what you’re saying, Rob?
I’m stating that you’ve been neglecting the handling the extreme right, when peeps like Rosendall seem to criticize both sides.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Rob obfuscates “I’m stating that you’ve been neglecting the handling the extreme right, when peeps like Rosendall seem to criticize both sides.”
Like I wrote above, Rob, “(m)aybe writing with some clarity would help others comprehend what you’re saying”?
What exactly did you mean with the incoherent “I’m stating that you’ve been neglecting the handling the extreme right”?
posted by ETJB on
M&M
Um yeah, you have often referred to Democrats and Independents and probably any man, woman, puppy or small child who has ever said, “no” to you that they are living on a slave plantation or support the slave plantation or worshiping a slave master.
Perhaps the only thing that you have beaten more then your slave-master lingo, would be your unspeakable, but clearly easily exicitable third hand.
Someone named ”Richard II” accused you of making racist and anti-Semitic comments. This person sent emails to several people about it, even edited the Wikipedia IGF article. I am simply restating what I have heard from, ‘Richard II’ who, for all I know, is probably you.
I have been gone from the IGF taking care of my grandparents and my sister’s two lovely daughters and going to school full time and working for the Advocate. I was busy.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ET or RichardJ or whomever you are this week, nice dodge whilst spinning a yarn. I give you a “C-” for creativity. It’s amazing how you were able to be “gone” for a while, show up at times that RichardJ isn’t posting, pick up a reference by a demented reader buried in hundreds of threads and thousands of words, skip the disclaimer that came right after it and still try to make out like it was a message handed down from God?
Ummm, right. We can go with that… got any used cars for sale?
BTW, I asked the IGF editors to remove a post in the other thread that was at 2:48 and it was posted by the very troll who’s been playing hijinks with Michigan-Matt handle.
The IGF editors did. The idiot poster didn’t know my email address –kind of a give away when checked.
I also asked the IGF editors to keep the remark and disclaimer that was in another thread in which the troll-writer made bigoted and racist remarks under my name and excited Richard2 to outrageous claims.
They did.
I think the IGF editors have been fair and forthright when asked to act.
I know some of the irritable gayLeft and gayDemocrat posters (and their sockpuppet variations) have been miffed by my dissent to the OneTrueCreed. They’ve asked the IGF editors to block, ban, bar or blacklist me… to post my email address and IP address so they can take the “fight” –as they see it– to a more personal level.
Needless to say, the IGF editors aren’t buying it. I give the IGF editors a lot of credit but as I told fellow-reader Pat, it’s still incumbent on all of us, with a strong moral compass, to resist evil in our midst and speak out against it. Civil rights are a privilege earned, not granted.
Rev King would expect no less. Nelson Mandela would expect no less. Del Martin would expect no less. Mark Segal would expect no less.