The Federalist Society, "a group of conservatives and libertarians interested in the current state of the legal order," hosted an online debate about same-sex marriage featuring IGF contributing author Dale Carpenter. What jumps out at you about this exchange is just how obviously weak the anti-gay marriage arguments are. Gay marriage advocates, including Dale and IGF co-managing editor Jonathan Rauch, among others, have done a masterful job of developing arguments in favor of marriage equality that are based on conservative, even "Burkean," perspectives (basically, same-sex marriage strengthens marriage as an institution and thus society as a whole).
Social conservatives have a hard time countering that. Gays on the left side of the spectrum, in contrast, too often merely assert that they should have the benefits of marriage (or even, as in the "Beyond Marriage" manifesto, marriage benefits for whatever sorts of loose domestic relationships they may choose to enter). That's not going to win any arguments with those whose greatest fear is that substantively changing the social order can have destabilizing and destructive consequences.
6 Comments for “Debating Same-Sex Marriage with the Right”
posted by Craig2 on
Not neccessarily, although I assume that Stephen wasn’t talking about civil unions here. I think a good case can be made for civil unions as an interim step to the “real thing”, as has been the case in the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.
Added to which, while gay libertarians are doing an excellent job insofar as developing centre-right arguments for same-sex marriage, I think there needs to be a distinction between the extreme marxoid left and the centre-left
made here. Britain and New Zealand’s centre-left Labour governments were the ones that passed civil unions and in the case of the Blair administration,
passed inclusive adoption reforms.
Insofar as the Christian Right’s changing the social order rhetoric goes, though, I really have to wonder. If the NZ Christian Right is any indication, I’d respond ‘except
when it suits them otherwise’, as
with the adoption of proportional representation here in 1993.
Craig2
Wellington, NZ
posted by Richard II on
MM keeps trying to suggest that I am not an Independent, but sometime of partisan ‘gayleftistDemocrat’. To help prove him wrong, allow me to list some of my favorite Republicans;
* Abraham Lincoln
* Theodore Roosevelt
* Radical Republicans
* John B. Anderson (Became Independent)
*
posted by Richard II on
Clearly, it is important to have these sorts of conversations.
It is often a question of knowing your audience. Gay conservatives are probably more qualified then gay liberals to talke with straight conservatives.
gay Catholics are probably a bit better suited to speak to straight Catholics, then say gay Muslims, Jews, or Atheists.
Yet, I do wonder how much impact any of the logical, well reasoned arguments for gay rights — on the left, right or center — have on the ‘average’ jane or john doe who does not really need to have logical or rational reasons for opposing ‘x’.
posted by Craig2 on
*Some* social conservatives are acting in bad faith- fundamentalist Christianity itself contributes substantially to marital breakdown in its own
US heartland:
http://www.religioustolerance.com/chr_dira.htm
Craig2
Wellington, NZ
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Richard2 offers: “MM keeps trying to suggest that I am not an Independent, but sometime (sic) of partisan ‘gayleftistDemocrat’. To help prove him wrong, allow me to list some of my favorite Republicans;* Abraham Lincoln
* Theodore Roosevelt* Radical Republicans
* John B. Anderson (Became Independent)”
Not bad, Richard2.
Unwittingly for sure, you chose overwhelmingly DEAD Republicans as your most favorite kind of Republican; gee, fancy that from our resident gayDemocrat hiding under sheep’s wool.
In fact, some would contend John Anderson’s been dead since he proposed a 50 cent/gallon federal tax to fix the energy crisis… but not to you, he’s a favorite Republican of yours!
The last political act that “favorite” Republican of yours did?
John Anderson endorsed Wally Mondale for president in 1984 out of spite against RonnieReagan. Way to go, you’re about as independent as John Anderson.
And you have the courage to condemn others here as gay partisans? What a joke.
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