On Tuesday, NBC's Matt Lauer, interviewing Sen. Larry Craig, said (as I took it down): "the report says that you followed a well known pattern of behavior by members of the gay community seeking sex in restrooms." Hmmm, I thought GLAAD had educated these guys?
When NBC showed an old news clip from the first Clinton presidency, with Sen. Craig ragging that Bill "is a naughty, nasty, bad boy," it did sound like something out of a bad pedophile novel.
34 Comments for “Dirty Boys”
posted by John on
Uh, given that the overwhelming majority of guys busted in these scandels are married and straight identified just how does this qualify as a “pattern of behavior by members of the gay community”??? Every one of these men has shunned the gay community and actively worked against it.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Matt Lauer’s done some research, I see.
Maybe he’s even read the gay blogs that are saying, in regards to the New York lawsuit:
Is this like a fucking joke? Everyone who cares to know realizes that David Barton Gyms are very gay friendly. So I’m supposed to believe that this guy joined a David Barton Gym in Chelsea and is shocked by gay sex there? Hello, it’s Chelsea. Don’t you see the rainbow flags hanging in the shops windows? The gay mags in the windows? The neatly dressed men?
I fail to see why we should be upset with Matt Lauer for stating the obvious.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30, please stick to the topic at hand. What do the links you provided have to do with Craig’s arrest in an airport bathroom?
ANSWER: Nothing (as usual)
posted by ETJB on
Well, it all goes back to two things. First the closet and how it can imprison people and encorage them to do really stupid things.
Second, what was the Senator’s intent? Was he asking a guy for sex and planning on taking it elsewhere or was he planning on having sex in the mensroom. Neither are smart ideas for a closted politican who has put his eggs with the theocratic right-wing
Yet, one should be illegal and other should be legal.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
What do the links you provided have to do with Craig’s arrest in an airport bathroom?
Please refer back to the original post and to John’s statement.
On Tuesday, NBC’s Matt Lauer, interviewing Sen. Larry Craig, said (as I took it down): “the report says that you followed a well known pattern of behavior by members of the gay community seeking sex in restrooms.”
And I provided three examples of gay men repeatedly seeking and having sex in public restrooms/steam rooms/locker rooms — as well as a prominent gay blogger explaining that this is natural and normal in the gay community.
What I thought was particularly funny is how ETJB blamed “the closet” — when what should be obvious is that OPENLY-gay men seem to have this need for public sex as well.
posted by Marc on
NDT, I am sure some gay men do have a need for public sex – but so do OPENLY heterosexual people. (Never heard of the Mile High Club?) Why is it that you constantly paint the gay community with the same annoying broad brush, and think you have achieved some type of Gotcha! because you quote three articles on the Internet?
The sad reality of Craig is exactly as ETJB stated: it IS because of the closet, as well as his own political (and one would imagine religious) convictions, that he was in that bathroom. He wasnt in there just for “public sex.” He simply couldnt use the internet or go to gay bars for fear of being found out, so he had to rely on the early practices of his generation by seeking sex in places that involved a) the shortest amount of time to get off, and b) some level of incognito. Most of us old enough to remember know the days when bathrooms, etc. were the only way you could find sex; nowadays, such practices are rather passe, especially in the younger gay culture. (Ask a 20 year old if he knows the “signals” Matt Lauer is talking about – most probably didnt until the Craig story.) If anyone needs to do research, you do.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
…And equating a public bathroom in Minnesota to a private steam-room in San Francisco is beyond stupid, even by ND30’s typically retarded standards.
posted by Bobby on
Public sex is not as common in the heterosexual world because most women don’t want to have sex with strange men without at the very least, learning their name. In the gay world is more common, there are websites dedicated to that.
“with Sen. Craig ragging that Bill “is a naughty, nasty, bad boy,” it did sound like something out of a bad pedophile novel.”
—That was uncalled for, Sen. Craig is not a pedophile. Tu use the same word in a sentence related to Craig is completely unfair, unbalanced, and proof of how the left engages in character assasination.
I don’t like Craig, but I won’t lie to him and call him a pedophile like Miller did.
As for Bill Clinton, what did was pretty nasty. I would get fired if I did that to an intern! What Clinton did was harassment, he should have lost his job. But of course, the feminists didn’t care because Clinton loved abortion, so who cares if he’s raping women (Kathleen Willey) or harassing women (Paula Jones, Lewinsky), I guess to the feminists you can do whatever you want as long as you support abortion.
In fact, why should Craig resign? If it’s ok for Clinton to fuck interns, maybe it’s ok for Craig to have a little fun in the bathroom. If we tolerate crimes from democrats, we should tolerate them from republicans.
posted by John on
Yeah, I can see how gay men having sex in thesteamroom of the gay gym in the gayest section of the gayest city on the planet is just exactly like married, straight-identified men having secret hook-ups thru elaborate coded signals in public airport restrooms. Nice try ND30, but not even close in comparison.
And this is not something men ‘of his generation’ were forced into. These men made this choice to live their lives this deceitful way. Dan Savage has the best response to this stupidity on Slog: http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/10/sympathy_for_larry_craig_im_not_feeling
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Why is it that you constantly paint the gay community with the same annoying broad brush
Because this is what they are saying.
Yeah, I can see how gay men having sex in thesteamroom of the gay gym in the gayest section of the gayest city on the planet
Or:
And equating a public bathroom in Minnesota to a private steam-room in San Francisco is beyond stupid
And yet they get upset at Matt Lauer for associating being gay with seeking and having public sex.
They themselves are stating that seeking and having public sex is normal and standard whenever there are gays in an area, even more so as the number of gay people there increases.
The problem is that ColoradoPatriot and John are knee-jerkers; they are incapable of saying that what another gay person does is wrong because so much of their self-worth is tied up in their acceptance by other gay people. That’s why they take the hypocritical stance that public sex by gay people is normal and to be expected, but that Larry Craig is evil and a pervert.
Oh, and public sex by heterosexuals? They get arrested or kicked out of places, and people, unlike gays, don’t whine about how the officers aren’t “sex-positive” or how enforcing the law means you’re “repressed”.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “And yet they get upset at Matt Lauer for associating being gay with seeking and having public sex.”
Who are you talking about here? The only person making that point is Stephen Miller. Is he one of the “gay leftists” who haunt your imagination now too?
ND30: “That’s why they take the hypocritical stance that public sex by gay people is normal and to be expected, but that Larry Craig is evil and a pervert.”
Please don’t lie about me on these boards. I’ve never said what you claim. In fact, my personal feelings are the exact opposite. Please stop lying (I know, don’t wish for the impossible) on these boards. Your continued abuse of these boards is disgusting. You should be ashamed.
posted by ETJB on
I have know few openly gay men who have engaged in public sex, such as the Senator is accused of.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Please don’t lie about me on these boards. I’ve never said what you claim. In fact, my personal feelings are the exact opposite.
LOL….which is why you are claiming that soliciting and having public sex in San Francisco is “different” than doing it in Minneapolis, rather than condemning it as well.
We know what the difference is; gays having public sex is not wrong. You fully support and endorse gays soliciting and having public sex, even in front of children.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “…which is why you are claiming that soliciting and having public sex in San Francisco is “different” than doing it in Minneapolis, rather than condemning it as well.”
I never said that and you are lying when you try to claim otherwise. Please stop lying on this board, your behavior here is abusive and wrong. Don’t you see how your continued ugly behavior is detrimental to your arguments? Why do you feel the need to resort to lies? Please stop lying on this board.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
I never said that and you are lying when you try to claim otherwise.
(yawns)
And equating a public bathroom in Minnesota to a private steam-room in San Francisco is beyond stupid
posted by John on
[i]”That’s why they take the hypocritical stance that public sex by gay people is normal and to be expected, but that Larry Craig is evil and a pervert.”[/i]
I have no idea how you got this from anything I posted. Have to agree with the other commenter – please don’t just make crap up and put the words in my mouth.
There is a huge gulf of difference between a steam room at a castro gym and a public airport restroom in Minneapolis. If you can’t see that it is your issue, not mine. The gym is not public, it’s private. You have to have a membership to be in there and what’s going on in there is pretty common knowledge in that neighborhood. And I’d bet any amount of money no one is accidentally stumbling in there with their kids and finding two closeted congressmen going at it. Nor did I imply in any way that it is ‘normal’ behaivior for gay men to seek public sex. I personally don’t know anyone that does that sort of thing, gay or not, and I find it distasteful and creepy. It may be normal in the Castro steam rooms, but not in the entire gay ‘community’, and not in my area or my with group of friends. Those in the gay steam room are keeping out of public places, not heading for them. You’re making that accusation of acceptability – not I.
Nor did I anywhere say Craig was evil. He is broken, sad, little man who has made horrible choices that have brought nothing but shame and misery to himself, his family and gays in general. Evil? no. Despicable? Yes. Pitiable? Maybe. He had free choice and he made his bed. No sympathy from me.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
Do you have anything to add to the discussion ND30 or are you just going to post quotes and draw wild conclusions from them? So far your attempts at derailing this conversation have failed. Anything pertinent you want to say? Or just more stupid lies and distortions?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
The gym is not public, it’s private.
Would you like to see the California statute posted next to the steam room door that makes it clear that it IS a public place and that the laws of the state governing public indecency apply?
I have no idea how you got this from anything I posted.
Easy.
When first confronted with these examples of gays having public sex, you tried to explain it away like this:
Yeah, I can see how gay men having sex in thesteamroom of the gay gym in the gayest section of the gayest city on the planet
Ergo, where there are gays, there will be public sex. It’s expected and normal among gays.
And as far as exposing children to public sex, gays are dressing their two-year-olds in fetish wear and taking them to the Folsom Street Fair. Don’t be screaming bloody murder about “two closeted congressmen going at it” when in fact you don’t even have ONE “closeted congressman going at it”.
Craig should be gone because he is, aside from everything else, horribly arrogant and apparently of the belief that he is completely above the law. But this sanctimonious denial of “gay norms” should be drop-kicked; Matt Lauer is correct when he says that solicitation of and having sex in public places is a known pattern of the gay community.
If you don’t like the latter, deal with it. Raise hell about that.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
EDIT: Matt Lauer is correct when he says that solicitation of and having sex in public places is a known pattern of the HUMAN community.
Fixed that one for you ND30. You are welcome.
posted by Hank on
“just make crap up and put the words in my mouth”
But that’s what he does – most every post has something like “in other words, what you really mean is…”
It’s called erecting straw men… and proves the weakness of his arguments.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
I would worry about that accusation more, Hank, if I didn’t have quotations and links to back these things up.
And the fact that I do have them is why you launch constant personal attacks; you can’t explain why gays like you are having public sex or dressing up two-year-olds in fetish gear and taking them to the sex fairs without saying that gay people are engaging in obvious bad behavior, and you’re simply not capable of that.
Do not expect people to believe something isn’t a pattern in the gay community just because you say so — especially when there are so many examples demonstrating it as a pattern that you say nothing about.
posted by Hank on
As my daughter would say, ND, “whatever…”
posted by Hank on
Against my better judgment, I guess I will respond.
“Gays like ‘me'”? Do you have any clue how offensive that is, Mr. Self-appointed-example-of-Christian-ethics?
“Gays like me” work 55 hours or so per week to make money to support our families. “Gays like me” go to church most Sundays, sing in the choir, help out with the church mens’ group (okay so that’s not a real sacrifice ’cause of the straight guy eye candy there…). “Gays like me” volunteer to help build the corporate Habitat for Humanity house currently underway. “Gays like me” serve for no pay, and lots of grief, on the Homeowners association. “Gays like me” try to balance the needs of our partner and children with the needs of a set of aging parents in a far off state.
How about you come down off your pharasaical high horse and recognize that most gay people – and especially the ones that hang out here and read your pearls of wisdom, lead pretty normal lives.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Yes, “gays like you”, Hank.
Because those people are stating that their behaviors are acceptable and normal because they are gay — and they are supported by their community in doing so.
Because John and ColoradoPatriot are arguing that those behaviors are acceptable and normal because they are “in the gayest section of the gayest city on the planet”.
If you don’t want to be associated with them, make it clear that their behaviors are wrong, that they should face the full penalty for them, and that any gay person who says their homosexuality makes it normal to do anything of the sort or that gay people who make excuses about “the gayest city”, etc., are wrong.
Or let people continue to co-opt their homosexuality as an excuse, which is the far more popular option among gays, yourself included.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “ColoradoPatriot are arguing that those behaviors are acceptable and normal because they are “in the gayest section of the gayest city on the planet”.”
Again with the lies. I never said that and you are being duplicitous when you try to claim otherwise. Why do you feel the need to derail the conversation here with your stupid lies? Can you not handle a real conversation without resorting to juvenile antics? Please stop lying on this board, your behavior here is abusive and wrong. Don’t you see how your continued ugly behavior is detrimental to your arguments? Why do you feel the need to resort to lies? Please stop lying on this board.
posted by Brian Miller on
those people are stating that their behaviors are acceptable and normal because they are gay
One of the classic definitions of passive aggression is holding third parties responsible for the actions of someone else.
Seems you’re doing a lot of that, ND.
What does that make you?
posted by Brian Miller on
they should face the full penalty for them
And what would the “full penalty” be for all those freaky queer people who wear leather chaps on Folsom Street, or go to Pride in drag, or drive motorcycles?
This attitude is telling about your true motives as a control freak.
Even more hilariously, you claim to live in San Francisco. As a San Franciscan myself, I never cease to laugh my ass off at idiots who move here and then complain ceaselessly about the culture, diversity, and unusualness to be found. If you hate everything about this city so much (and you actually live here), go move to Birmingham or Tallahassee or some other city more to your liking. Obviously you won’t miss the San Francisco vibe, and I doubt it will miss you either (assuming you actually exist and actually live here).
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
And what would the “full penalty” be for all those freaky queer people who wear leather chaps on Folsom Street, or go to Pride in drag, or drive motorcycles?
If you will note, Mr. Miller, I made it clear what the behaviors in question were.
But thank you for making it obvious that you fully support public sex, leaving cum all over public restrooms, and dressing two-year-old children up in fetish wear and taking them to a sex fair to “show off” in the name of “culture, diversity, and unusualness”.
It explains a lot about these statistics.
posted by Jeff Quinton on
Jeff Quinton
posted by Last Of The Moderate Gays on
“If we tolerate crimes from democrats, we should tolerate them from republicans.”
Bobby, how dare you expose the blatant hypocrisy and history revision of the Clinton apologists?!?
posted by Brian Miller on
thank you for making it obvious that you fully support public sex, leaving cum all over public restrooms, and dressing two-year-old children up in fetish wear and taking them to a sex fair
Not only that, but I support boiling children alive and then eating their flesh, after an exhausting all-night orgy with Ted Kennedy and Osama bin Laden.
You are indeed brave in standing up to my odious agenda, which everyone who isn’t a Republican embraces — and for which all gay people must apologize. After all, we are responsible for the fantasies inside your head and must be tortured at Guantanamo for our role in them.
posted by Brian Miller on
how dare you expose the blatant hypocrisy and history revision of the Clinton apologists
But Bill Clinton was Good! He deserves a free pass. He’s on the gays’ side.
Why, he supported DOMA simply to stop an anti-gay Constitutional Amendment from taking shape! He was protecting us!
(I actually heard one Useful Idiot making the latter argument at a dinner event not long ago).
posted by Bobby on
“Why, he supported DOMA simply to stop an anti-gay Constitutional Amendment from taking shape! ”
—I don’t think that was the case. Constitutional Amendments are very hard to pass.
Clinton did that because it was politically expedient, and then he bragged about it on radio commercials played in Arkansas.
In fact, Clinton has a few skeletons in his closet, such as his meeting with Rev. Fred “God hates f” Phelps.”
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Not only that, but I support boiling children alive and then eating their flesh, after an exhausting all-night orgy with Ted Kennedy and Osama bin Laden.
Well, if you want to claim that, you’re welcome to do it; I’ll stick to the stuff I mentioned that was better documented.