Just another glimpse, via Reason magazine's spotlight on Iranian state television, of the depth of Islamofascism's hatred of both Jews and gays.
I'd add that the ongoing failure of U.S. "progressives" to recognize and respond to such evil (witness the silence of international LGBT groups to far worse anti-gay deprecations in the Islamic world ) has all to do with two decades of multiculturalist indoctrination propagandizing how all cultures are equally deserving of respect except for Western culture, which is the source of all the world's ills.
More. Some commenters note that principled activists such as Peter Tatchell have protested Islamic homophobia. Fair point. But as reader Avee advises, it's worth re-reading one of Rick Rosendall's columns from last year, "No Excuses for Iran."
On July 7, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) announced that it would join the July 19 worldwide action with a vigil against the death penalty [aginst gays in Iran] outside the Iranian mission to the United Nations. On July 13, however, IGLHRC pulled out of the protest and announced it was moving its July 19 event and changing its focus to one of introspection for Westerners....
Joining IGLHRC at New York's LGBT Community Center were Human Rights Watch (HRW), National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, and others. IGLHRC said that the worldwide call for protests raised questions like "How do we avoid reinforcing stereotypes and playing into hostilities prompted by our own government?"
And then there's this jolly view, as related in a review of a new work by Joseph Massad, associate professor of modern Arab politics at Columbia University, who argues that promotion of gay rights in the Middle East is a conspiracy that "produces homosexuals, as well as gays and lesbians, where they do not exist." It's certainly a rather paranoid perspective in light of the relative inattention that Western gay rights groups have given to the Middle East.
14 Comments for “Clash of Civilizations”
posted by Mike on
I agree 100% with Stephen. I attend a hugely diverse University in DC and it blows my mind how people can honestly try to equate Western civilization with Islamic civilization. I have no problem saying that our culture is more advanced, more fair, and more open then the latter.
posted by MMMM on
Stephen, Paul Varnell wrote a terrific article about how we can help gays abroad. Iran is only one of the places they need us most. About multiculturalism, perhaps I’m “indoctrinated” but it seems to me that the substance of multiculturalism is nothing more than good manners. And yes, while I agree that there are standards by which civilization is measured, you’ve phrased the issue crudely: judging the quality of life in Iran differs greatly from respecting Persian culture. We can easily respect the latter while condemning the mullahs and other fundamentalist, despotic, totalitarian, or otherwise repressive regimes that commit crimes against humanity. I think we agree, but I also challenge you to cite any effort sponsored by an organization that you would call conservatives “to recognize and respond to such evil” and if you can, I’ll join immediately.
posted by Brian Miller on
What’s “our” civilization?
The same conservatives who were, three years ago, screaming about Freedom Fries and Cheese-Eating-Surrender Monkeys are now extolling the distinctly Francophone undertones of the Enlightenment? 😉
Yeah, Iran is a seriously horrendous place for most of its people right now — particularly its gay and lesbian people.
So what are you doing to make it a better place?
Supporting IRQO in its efforts to get persecuted gay people asylum?
Telling the Republican and Democratic parties that they will not receive your vote if they don’t make asylum for oppressed gay people easier?
Helping people in need right now with real help?
Or are you just using the situation in Iran like the situation in Iraq — a convenient fig leaf to justify yet another disastrous war/invasion after which you’ll happily allow the firing squads, armed by the US Army, to round up and kill gay natives?
posted by Xeno on
That’s odd. I know a lot of leftist friends who agree with me that islamofacism is a barbaric and inferior regime. Also Dan Savage said some un-PC things about Islamic countries, and he’s pretty much a leftist.
posted by Lori Heine on
My experience has been pretty much the same as Xeno’s. I hear a lot of people on the Left voicing the concern that moderate Muslims (who already experience plenty of intimidation from the hard-liners) are not being differentiated from the crazies. I have heard absolutely no one on the Left defend the crazies themselves.
I’m beginning to think the whole “cultural traitor” thing is another bogeybear dreamed up by the Right. It isn’t like they’ve never done such a thing before.
posted by jmagi on
Doug Ireland has been doing a great job publicizing the executions in Iran, and he’s not a rightwinger as I far as I know. You’re really stretching your point on this.
posted by Brian Miller on
Agreed. Doug Ireland in the USA and Peter Tatchell in the UK (Green Party Candidate for Oxford City Council) have been leading this charge and neither can be described as anything other than “left-leaning.”
Paul Varnell has done outstanding work on the right.
Of course, the villains hail from both sides of the political spectrum as well — right-wing George W. Bush has ordered reviews and appeals of every single gay asylum case granted in this country. . . and left-leaning Human Rights Watch doyenne Scott Long has waged an endless crusade of pedantry against gay people who do not bend a knee to his shoddy scholarship and claims of exclusive knowledge on this issue.
This isn’t a “political spectrum” issue in the slightest, for either heroes or villians.
posted by ETJB on
Fact 1: Racism (broadly defined to include ethnic and religious minorities) has always been a deep-rotted problem in Europe. Some Muslims living in Europe may be a part of this problem, but they did not create it.
Fact2: Iran is a theocracy and one of the many governments in the region that does not even attempt to pay lip service to liberal democracy or human rights.
Fact3: The LGBT groups that deal with international (as opposed to local or federal) human rights DO address the plight of LGBT people in the Middle East..including Iraq.
Fact4: To oppose multicultural is racist pure and simple. I see too many gay conservatives willing to attack a form of racism (against Jews), but then to defend another form (against Arabs/Muslims)
Fact5: Multiculturalism does not mean that all ethnic-religious group’s values are morally or ethically equal.
It does means that we have to create a culture/nation/world where different people (racially, ethnically, religious, sexuality, etc.) can live together peacefully and have an assortment of civility, dignity & rights.
posted by Brian Miller on
To oppose multicultural is racist pure and simple.
Nonsense. Multiculturalism is a government policy to force individuals to accept beliefs that they might not share. It’s not “racist” for me to insist that sharia culture that segregates women and stones gays, or Christian culture that declares women to be inferior, are unacceptable and not welcome in my sphere of living.
Multiculti is classic centralized social engineering and is based on the absurd proposition that “culture” is something that government can build and manage, rather than something that individuals create and change through their own actions.
posted by Avee on
Some gay activists have protested, but many major gay lefty groups have not, so Miller does have a point. Read Rick Rosendall’s column, “No Excuses for Iran.
“On July 7, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) announced that it would join the July 19 worldwide action with a vigil against the death penalty [aginst gays in Iran] outside the Iranian mission to the United Nations. On July 13, however, IGLHRC pulled out of the protest and announced it was moving its July 19 event and changing its focus to one of introspection for Westerners…. Joining IGLHRC at New York’s LGBT Community Center were Human Rights Watch (HRW), National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, and others. IGLHRC said that the worldwide call for protests raised questions like ‘How do we avoid reinforcing stereotypes and playing into hostilities prompted by our own government?'”
posted by Craig2 on
Wrong.
There are conservative and pluralist brands of multiculturalism. Moreover, social conservatives are hardly unified on this issue.
Case in point- by all means, condemn LGBT and human rights abuses in Muslim societies. But Islam is a great faith, rather like Christianity; it encompasses a range of nation-states, political ideologies and ranges from liberal and inclusive to defensively fundamentalist. Right-wing Islamism isn’t the only variety around. We should be reaching out to LGBT and other reformist
Muslim groups to change that great faith and encourage its inclusive and pluralist elements.
Why? Well, despite its sectarian
posturings, elements of the US
and other Christian Rights are quite open to cobelligerency with Muslim social conservatives against reproductive choice and LGBT rights, through forums like the World Congress of Families.
I do not deny Iran’s theocratic rulers are a source of repression for lesbian and gay
Iranians, and they deserve our solidarity. At the same time, though, how else could that be accomplished except through multicultural coalitions that include LGBT Iranian refugees
and other liberal Iranian exiles?
Craig2
Wellington, NZ
posted by Bobby on
“It does means that we have to create a culture/nation/world where different people (racially, ethnically, religious, sexuality, etc.) can live together peacefully and have an assortment of civility, dignity & rights.”
—No we don’t. Stores shouldn’t stop saying “merry christmas” because some atheist or muslim finds it offensive. Schools in France shoudn’t stop serving pork because a muslim minority can’t eat that. Taxpayer funded airports shouldn’t be building foot baths that only muslims use before praying. Civility and respect is one thing, but to become politically correct is unnaceptable.
The following story is what happens when your ideals are implemented:
“BBC drops fictional terror attack to avoid offending Muslims”
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23409086-details/BBC+drops+fictional+terror+attack+to+avoid+offending+Muslims/article.do
Muslims are never afraid of offending jews, offending Christians, offending gays, and doing all kinds of crap in American college universities. I’ve seen pictures of their pro-palestinian rallies with swastikas. So don’t you dare accuse conservatives of being racists. If we were racists, we’d be passing laws against them. Instead, we simply speak against radical Islam. And while the liberal media may not like it, there are moderate muslims who oppose radical Islam (you can watch them on Fox News) and even dare to criticize the sexism in that religion.
I’ve read muslim newspapers printed in America, I’ve seen the articles complaining about how open gays are in Canada. You need to realize that it’s not us who have to get used to the muslims, it’s the muslims that have to get used to us. They are the minority and if they don’t like our culture, they can go back to the arab world.
This advice especially goes to those Somali muslim cab drivers that won’t pick up passengers with dogs or carrying bottles of alcohol.
posted by ETJB on
I said: To oppose multicultural is racist pure and simple.
Your reply: Nonsense.
Will we have more distortions and racist ramblings?
You said: Multiculturalism is a government policy to force individuals to accept beliefs that they might not share.
No. Multiculturalism is a (1) government policy to ensure that its citizens have equal rights and dignity. (2) Social policy to ensure that people of different backgrounds can live together in peace and mutual respect.
“It’s not “racist” for me to insist that sharia culture that segregates women and stones gays, or Christian culture that declares women to be inferior, are unacceptable and not welcome in my sphere of living.”
No, but multiculturalism DOES not stipulate that all values are equal. It is about tolerance, freedom, justice, equal rights and dignity.
posted by ETJB on
“No we don’t.”
So you are saying that people of different races, religions, ethnic and national backgrounds should not try to live together in peace and mutual respect? Golly, sounds pretty racist to me.
“Stores shouldn’t stop saying “merry christmas” because some atheist or muslim finds it offensive.”
Stores (especially in metros) will say, “Happy Holidays” for economic reasons. They want customers of all faiths. This is why during Jewish or Catholic or Muslim holidays, many stores will sell ethnic products.
“Schools in France shoudn’t stop serving pork because a muslim minority can’t eat that.”
No, but they certainly should have other food products available and label it.
“Muslims…”
So like all Muslims right? You are sterotyping all Muslims based on what you see on television? Gee, that is certainly not racist 😉
“Offending jews, offending Christians, offending gays,”
Wait, aren’t you the guy that should said being politically correct was unacceptable?
“I’ve seen pictures of their pro-palestinian rallies with swastikas.”
Yeah, and surely if you seen a picture of it somewhere it must not only be 100% truthful but speaking for all Muslims across space and time.
“There are moderate muslims who oppose radical Islam.”
Wait, didn’t you just rant and rave about how all Muslims are “offending” people and pro-Nazi? Actually, a great deal of the ‘liberal’ media has talked plenty about moderate and liberal Muslims.
“I’ve read Muslim newspapers printed in America”
That speak for all Muslims…
“I’ve seen the articles complaining about how open gays are in Canada.”
I suspect you can find lots of articles from conservatives people making such complaints and in the United States…perhaps on the FOX NEWS channel…
“You need to realize that it’s not us who have to get used to the muslims, it’s the muslims that have to get used to us.”
If a Muslim is a citizen, then they have certain rights in terms of religious freedom and freedom of speech and expression. At least in the United States.
“They are the minority…”
So are you — for being gay–. Yet, in the U.S. equal rights for all citizens is (in theory) the law of the land.
“if they”
All Muslims? Gee wiz!
“Don’t like our culture, they can go back to the arab world.”
Yup, lots of racist rants. Many Muslim Americans are a part of “our culture”, as citizens. So are Americans of various ethnic and racial backgrounds
Furthermore, not all Muslims are Arab. Arabs are an ethnic group, Islam is a religion. Most Arabs are Muslim, but not all Muslims are Arab.
The ‘Arab world’ only deals with (mostly) Muslims in the Middle East who are of that ethnic background. Muslims from Iran or Pakistan or Iraq or Afghanistan may not be Arab.
If they are citizens, then they have a political process that they can try and change things. Unless you want to ban Muslim Americans from voting or being a candidate?
“This advice especially goes to those Somali Muslim cab drivers that won’t pick up passengers with dogs or carrying bottles of alcohol.”
Ah so now Mr. “I hate government regulations and being political correct” is now asking the government to tell a private business what customers to accept.