If you actually believe it's pro-gay to use anti-gay stereotypes to gin up opposition to pro-gay Republicans among anti-gay conservatives, then you need a brain transplant. And why am I not surprised that the Advocate is having orgasms over this self-styled YouTube auteur/provocateur?
More. From the Washington Post, about the despicable anti-Giuliani/anti-gay "Gays for Giuliani" video created by a liberal gay New York artiste:
Davis is thinking about starting a political action committee to raise money to buy a television spot in South Carolina, a key primary state where some bloggers have complained that he is "gay-baiting" and "using Republicans' fear of gays to undermine Giuliani's candidacy."
You think?
44 Comments for “No, I Won’t Let It Go”
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Again, Stephen, you have to remember what level of denial these people are in.
These are the people who said nothing as HRC’s leaders gave money and endorsements to FMA supporters.
These are the people who called “pro-gay” and “gay-supportive” candidates who supported constitutional amendments and braggede about holding the “same position” as the Republicans that they called “homophobic and evil”.
If Ryan’s point was to oppose flip-flopping and pandering to homophobes, he’d be making ads about the candidates to whom gays have given millions of dollars, but who have turned right around and stabbed them in the back. He could make ads about gay leaders like Hilary Rosen and Joe Solmonese, and their organizations, talking about how they claim to oppose homophobia and then support and endorse candidates whose positions they call “homophobic” if other people hold them.
But again, his point is not to advance gay rights, but to please the Democrat Party. And I’m sure he will be richly rewarded for doing it.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
This is a really silly thing to get worked up about. The video is funny and informative AND firmly tongue-in-cheek. But, hey, I understand the need to create a smokescreen when the going gets tough. When you lay down with dogs…
posted by Avee on
The video is hateful and ugly and intended (as Steve says) to provoke conservative homophobia within the GOP. Great strategy, guys. If anyone else but a lefty gay had portrayed a lisping stereotype, GLAAD would have called for an action.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
I agree with Steve. It’s fine for Ryan to want a candidate who’ll shake things up, but before I start swooning I like to examine candidates’ records and statements. And if one of the Democratic candidates has a record of pro-gay action comparable to Rudy’s, it ain’t one of the top three. (Hint, it’s someone with executive experience.)
Look, I have problems with Rudy. And last year I wrote a column examining the HRC scorecard ratings of several people including then-Rep. Harold Ford, who got more anti-gay the closer he got to his Senate race. Still, I can respect the decision of someone like Hilary Rosen to support someone like Ford as long as she is honest about it. She would only be speaking the truth if she said that Ford’s party has a much friendlier record on gay issues than the GOP. Politics is a messy business.
But Ryan did not make a video urging opposition to Rudy because of the wingers in the GOP to whom Rudy has pandered. (And incidentally, is that pandering really comparable to the radio spots run by the Clinton White House on conservative Christian stations in 1996 bragging about his signing DOMA into law?). Instead, Ryan is appealing to people’s homophobia to help defeat Rudy. If that is not contemptible, the word has lost its meaning.
posted by Earth to Stephen Miller on
Did you not catch the comments in the last thread about this regarding Gen Y humor?
Sorry, but the 20-somethings are smirking at your cluelessness. You’re like the parents freaking out over Elvis in the late 1950’s.
Translation: IT WENT OVER YOUR HEAD, OLD TIMER.
posted by Doug on
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Rudy is running away from his pro-gayness as fast as possible and has recently refuted is pro civil union position. He obviously has lost any semblance of integrity on the issue of gay rights.
posted by Xeno on
Doug is right, but something better is to going to bring down Giuliani if he gets the GOP nomination: swiftboated by FDNY members.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Like with the much publicized GayLeft’s outing of Capitol Hill Junior GOP staffers last year, this stunt –and stunt it is because everyone knows GayLefties have the attention-demand needs of a 3 yr old who just fell off the Ritalin wagon– this stunt will end up giving ALL gays another black eye… just what we need to gain credibility and standing with MainStream America. We need to put these drama queens in the background… fast.
Like with the GayLeft’s perverse hate-filled animus toward religion, this is just another example of the GayLeft’s perverse hatred for anything mainstream or normal or Republican, while screaming to just be considered normal by those they hate the most.
We’ll never be able to forge a coaltion with moderate Americans in order to advance real civil rights for gays as long as we tolerate these barn-burning, molotov cocktail throwing petulant GayLefties “speaking” for or representing gays.
Honestly, GayLefties are looking like the perpetually immature adolescents in our community who bug chase and bareback… why is it that so many GayLefties think maturity is the enemy of their youth?
And please, no more “we were just kidding, it’s humor” as an excuse for stupidity.
posted by Last Of The Moderate Gays on
Hey “Earth”:
Yeah, I read the comments. Did you bother to read the Advocate interview? Even the creator admits this is just as much a “slam” piece as a “humorous” one. If lying about your REAL intentions by masking them as just “innocent humor” is a “Generation Y” trademark, then you and the creator of this will fit very nicely in a (God forbid!) Clinton administration. Grow out of your diapers, finish school, grow up, and come back if and when you’ve learned to be honest!
posted by Xeno on
this stunt will end up giving ALL gays another black eye… just what we need to gain credibility and standing with MainStream America.
How so? Is mainstream America that stupid to think that all gays are flaming queens? We’ve had 30 years of pride parades which some are obscene, GOP and evangelical asshole closet cases getting into one scandal after another, yet the number of support keeps going up. So why should a black eye matter if we keep getting up?
We need to put these drama queens in the background… fast.
And how do you propose that? By berating at them for their obscenities? Why it would only make matters worse.
Only way you can make a difference is shout out your existence as a gay conservative. Problem is that most gay conservatives don’t want attention upon them and wish to remain invisible. They have nothing to complain about if they feel that gays are overgeneralized.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
MM: “Honestly, GayLefties are looking like the perpetually immature adolescents in our community who bug chase and bareback…”
This coming from the guy who told me I had anger issues…simply astounding.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Xeno writes: “Only way you can make a difference is shout out your existence as a gay conservative. Problem is that most gay conservatives don’t want attention upon them and wish to remain invisible. They have nothing to complain about if they feel that gays are overgeneralized.”
Bzzzzzzzt, Xeno. The problem isn’t being gay in MainStream America, Xeno… the problem is being independent, conservative or even moderate in the GAY community. Lots of gay conservatives are standing up and choosing to point out the difference with the so-called voice of gays, the GayLeft and groups like HRC. Try doing what we did this summer, walk downtown in PTown with a “Mitt for Prez” tshirt… or a W on your Hummer. Boom, the GayLeft is as virulent as HIV.
5 yrs ago, for a gay to admit to being conservative or GOPer or anything other than FarLeftLiberalDemocrat would have brought brickbats from fellow gays… still does today in some quarters as ColoradoPat proves repeatedly on this site and others. Even to contend that a gay is independent of the GayLeftBorg mindset will bring forth the apologists and truth-enforcers of the GayLeft.
GayLeft Democrat partisans have manhandled the gay presence in America for far, far too long. It’s why we can’t get DOMA or DADT reversed… as a group, gays don’t have credibility in the broader political context. Tough to gain it when gay leaders keep carrying the water buckets on the Plantation for their Democrat slavemasters… in buttless chaps, no less.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
MM: “5 yrs ago, for a gay to admit to being conservative or GOPer or anything other than FarLeftLiberalDemocrat would have brought brickbats from fellow gays… still does today in some quarters as ColoradoPat proves repeatedly on this site and others.”
I’ve been an out gay conservative since I was a teenager in rural Kansas. My partner is a flaming liberal. We get along great together. I’ve never had any problems with being an out gay conservative. Why have you?
posted by dalea on
Michagan-Matt’Like with the GayLeft’s perverse hate-filled animus toward religion, this is just another example of the GayLeft’s perverse hatred for anything mainstream or normal or Republican, while screaming to just be considered normal by those they hate the most.’
Uhh, what proof do you have for this? From what I can tell almost all gay religious and spirituality organizations are run by the ‘left’. And most gay atheists are on the right wing.
M-M again: ‘We’ll never be able to forge a coaltion with moderate Americans in order to advance real civil rights for gays as long as we tolerate these barn-burning, molotov cocktail throwing petulant GayLefties “speaking” for or representing gays.’
When did any of this happen? Barn burning? Molotov cocktails? Perhaps the use of inflamatory language without any reference to actual events is not the best way for the gay right to win hearts and minds.
posted by GotBalls? on
I’ve been an out gay conservative for 20 years. I didn?t survive by being soft in my beliefs. I didn?t survive by whining and crying when people disagreed with, insulted or challenged me or my beliefs and I certainly didn?t survive by refusing to show my political adversaries less respect than I expect to receive from them in return. I too have been in a long term relationship with a screaming liberal. I think that’s taught be a lot about being respectful of, and open to listening to, the political beliefs of those with whom I disagree.
I read Matt?s post above and I can?t help but notice that he spews the very exact same kind of vitriol, exaggerations and word play against liberal gays that he, in the same breath, is whining about coming from gay liberals.
I just wish gay conservatives would grow some balls and stop whining so damned much about how nasty and intolerant the Gaylefties, GayLibs, GayLeft, FarLeftLiberalDemocrats are. Anyone who thinks that gay liberals are any more obnoxious, stubborn, closed minded or intolerant than gay conservatives is blinded by partisanship, willfully ignorant or outright stupid. Let?s be real here.
If anyone is interested, here are my top ten secrets to being a happy, healthy, bitter-free, gay conservative living in a liberal gay world.
1) Make sure you know what you believe and why. 2) Be ready and willing to stand up for what you believe. 3) Be ready and willing to defend what you believe (you have a right to your opinion but you don’t have a right to an unchallenged opinion). 4) Be open to listening to others beliefs/opinions. 5) Be open to considering the possibility that you just might have gotten it wrong. 6) Be open to the possibility of changing your mind (probably the hardest thing for a conservative to do) 7) Be open to, and OK with, the fact that others may not share your opinions and may even react badly to them. 8) Know that that is their problem and it doesn’t mean that you have to reduce yourself to their level of ignorance or incivility. 9) Be comfortable, confident, steadfast, unashamed and unapologetic when a belief that you hold true is attacked, even if you are the only person in a room that has that belief. And most important of all 10) Don’t whine, cry, complain and play victim when people don’t react to you, or your opinion the way you would want them to. That?s life! Take a deep breath and get over it!
Seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.
posted by Doug on
Any gay or lesbian who walks around wearing a ‘gay for mitt’ t-shirt must have some real self esteem issue. He’s about as anti-gay as the come these days.
One can be gay and conservative but one cannot be gay and republican. That’s akin to being a jewish nazi.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Doug wrote, “One can be gay and conservative but one cannot be gay and republican. That’s akin to being a jewish nazi.”
That does not become true on account of being endlessly repeated by smug Democrats. BTW, I am a Democrat myself, which affords me the opportunity to point out that not all Democrats are alike. The same is true of Republicans. I see no reason why gay people who wish to remain Republican and work to change the party from within should not have their choice respected. The party certainly needs to change. I have spoken to a number of Log Cabin members, and they intend to be around to help rebuild after the radical right has finished wrecking the party.
Part of diversity, if one is serious about embracing it, is diversity of opinion. One-fourth of self-identified gay voters consistently vote Republican, as Steve has pointed out. Throwing around the same tired epithets accomplishes nothing, and is boorish. If you are so convinced that Democrats are superior, then try demonstrating it with a little civility.
posted by bzzzzt!!!! on
One can be gay and conservative but one cannot be gay and republican. That’s akin to being a jewish nazi.
improper.
talk to a few young republicans in the live-and-let-live midwest. they’re libertarian minded and want the government out of their pocketbooks and their bedrooms. they’re skeptical of the threat of global warming, a skepticism which doesn’t hurt gays, and they would like to see reform within the republican party.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Furthermore, “Doug”, you might want to confront the fact that you and your fellow gay Democrats and your organizations like HRC and Stonewall Democrats endorse FMA supporters, endorse state constitutional amendment supporters, and support politicians who tell people you call homophobes that they “share their values” and that their position is “the same” as those you call evil and antigay.
Aside from the tens of millions of dollars that you pour down these ratholes instead of doing something that won’t get you cocktail-party invitations, but, you know, might help the gay community.
posted by Doug on
NDT that’s a dumb ass leap of faith on your part as I am NOT a Democrat and generally do not support HRC, the organization or than candidate.
posted by Randy on
“If you actually believe it’s pro-gay to use anti-gay stereotypes to gin up opposition to pro-gay Republicans among anti-gay conservatives, then you need a brain transplant.”
Why your insistence that Rudy is pro-gay? Lately, he has decidly become very anti-gay. So, either he is anti-gay, in which case I don’t understand why you support him, or he’s a lying SOB pandering to the worst parts of the GOP. And you support that? Geez. What do you guys want?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
NDT that’s a dumb ass leap of faith on your part as I am NOT a Democrat and generally do not support HRC, the organization or than candidate.
Right. And RuPaul started out as a woman.
Why your insistence that Rudy is pro-gay? Lately, he has decidly become very anti-gay.
Define “anti-gay”, given that, as I pointed out, Democrat gays consider FMA supporters, state constitutional amendment supporters, people who blab about “sharing values” with Pat Robertson, and who proudly state their position is “the same” as President Bush’s to be “pro-gay”, “gay-supportive”, and worthy of tens of millions of dollars in support and endorsements.
In short, there’s nothing that Rudy has said that you and yours haven’t endorsed when it comes from the lips of Democrats. And what you’ve made patently obvious is that “anti-gay” and “pro-gay” are irrelevant to what a person actually does, but to their political affiliation.
posted by Brian Miller on
If we’re going to combine whining about Rudolph Giuliani with a discussion of gay issues, rather than get all bent out of shape over a couple of campy gay satirists, perhaps IGF would like to address Giuliani’s complete flip-flopping on civil unions, gays in the military, and other gay issues:
In 2004, Giuliani told Fox News: “I’m in favor of . . . civil unions.” But in April, Giuliani’s campaign told the New York Sun that a civil unions bill passed by the New Hampshire legislature “goes too far” because it is “the equivalent of marriage.” The switch left activists wondering what happened to the man whose mayoral staff went through dozens of pages of the city code to replace the word “spouse” with “domestic partner.” The Gay City News, a weekly newspaper here, headlined its latest front page: “Rudy Flakier: Giuliani further retreats on civil unions.”
Giuliani also upset some with his new stance on gays in the military. In 1999, early in his abortive bid for the Senate against Hillary Rodham Clinton, Giuliani criticized the Bill Clinton-era Pentagon policy of “don’t ask, don’t tell.” But at the Republican debate in New Hampshire in June, he walked away from revising the policy. “At a time of war, you don’t make fundamental changes like this,” Giuliani said.
Gays also felt a snub this month when Giuliani joined the rest of the Republican field in declining to participate in a presidential forum on gay issues in Los Angeles.
In other words, Giuliani is Just Another Republican. Yawn. Nothing new or interesting to offer gay Americans — or indeed any American — other than flip-flopping and “clarifications” so that he can grab more power for himself.
I’m going to be pleased to be able to vote for a presidential candidate in 2008 who doesn’t flip-flop on fundamental issues of constitutional law (such as the equal protection clause) and who therefore believes gay people are entitled to equal treatment under the law. And she/he ain’t gonna be a Republicrat or Demopublican.
posted by Randy on
ND30: “In short, there’s nothing that Rudy has said that you and yours haven’t endorsed when it comes from the lips of Democrats.”
So If I understand you correctly, Rudy is just as bad as the Democrats. So then why support him?
“And what you’ve made patently obvious is that “anti-gay” and “pro-gay” are irrelevant to what a person actually does, but to their political affiliation.”
Then here you admit that Rudy is really pro-gay, but he is lying to get the support of the support of the conservatives. And that’s okay with you?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
So If I understand you correctly, Rudy is just as bad as the Democrats. So then why support him?
Ah, but you see, Doug, you and your fellow gay Democrats have called their actions “pro-gay” and “gay-supportive” and demanded that gays give them endorsements and tens of millions of dollars.
So you tell us; why is it OK to support behavior that you classify as “antigay” among Democrats, but not among Republicans?
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “…you and your fellow gay Democrats have called their actions “pro-gay” and “gay-supportive” and demanded that gays give them endorsements and tens of millions of dollars.”
Care to offer any sort of proof as to these supposed gay “demands?” I’ve never been called upon by my queer overlords to support anyone or anything…so how can you say that these demands have been made? Did I miss a newsletter somewhere or are you just making things up again?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Again, to clarify, ColoradoPatriot, you are saying that no gay person or organization ever said that gay people should support or endorse candidates like John Kerry and that no gay person or organization ever said that gay people should give John Kerry or gay organizations that supported John Kerry money and support.
Are you sure you want to make that argument?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
“GotBalls” offers: “I just wish gay conservatives would grow some balls and stop whining so damned much about how nasty and intolerant the Gaylefties, GayLibs, GayLeft, FarLeftLiberalDemocrats are. Anyone who thinks that gay liberals are any more obnoxious, stubborn, closed minded or intolerant than gay conservatives is blinded by partisanship, willfully ignorant or outright stupid. Let?s be real here.”
Yeah, John… be real. I didn’t have ANY problem standing up for the last round of immigration reform even if it angers my gay conservative friends… I don’t have ANY problem telling the presumptive GayLeft leadership that they are repeatedly harming our community’s long term interests… I don’t even have a problem noting that I like Dick & Lynne & Mary Cheney… and I hunt small and big game, too.
There’s no whining when someone calls out the excesses of the GayLeft. There’s no whining when one notes that the GayLeft’s presumptive leadership of the gay community has put us solidly in deficit on credibility with most Americans. There’s no whining when I state that the very GayLeft tactics Stephen Miller notes above are hurting us… once again. Like MikeRogers’ games of the summer of 2006.
No whining, John. I appreciate you think you understand what you stand for… but frankly, it’s a lot of needle threading that just takes up space. Like JohnMcCain, you’re trying to play the StraightTalkBus game… but it ain’t working for you.
There are differences in the gay community about who ought to lead us, what political allegiance is a “natural” one for gays and what ought to be in the “gay” agenda. When people here and elsewhere can contend that a gay GOPer is akin to a Nazi… well, that says a lot. Somehow, you’ve lost that point in your effort to claim how pragmatic and realistic you are.
I don’t need nor want the respect of GayLefties or LiberalDemocrats… their clearly stated political, social and economic goals are contrary to my interests. It isn’t whining, John; it’s reality. Get over it –yourself.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “Again, to clarify, ColoradoPatriot, you are saying that no gay person or organization ever said that gay people should support or endorse candidates like John Kerry and that no gay person or organization ever said that gay people should give John Kerry or gay organizations that supported John Kerry money and support.”
Nope, never said that. You made it up. You LIED.
This is what YOU said: “…you and your fellow gay Democrats have called their actions “pro-gay” and “gay-supportive” and demanded that gays give them endorsements and tens of millions of dollars.”
If you can’t back up your statements, DON’T MAKE THEM. TO DO SO MAKES YOU A LIAR.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
I think, ColoradoPatriot, that if you are going to deny that HRC, National Stonewall Democrats, etc. supported, endorsed, and demanded that gays give millions of dollars to candidates like John Kerry, there’s very little I can show you that will convince you of the fact.
I’m more curious as to why you feel the need to deny these realities so vehemently. Is it because you realize how silly it looks for you to complain about the FMA, state constitutional amendments, pandering to the religious right, firing gay employees, and whatnot when you are supporting and funding people who do it yourself?
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “I think, ColoradoPatriot, that if you are going to deny that HRC, National Stonewall Democrats, etc. supported, endorsed, and demanded that gays give millions of dollars to candidates like John Kerry, there’s very little I can show you that will convince you of the fact.”
I’ve never denied that. I’ve never commented on that. For you to make these false accusations against me is very VERY bad. Please stop lying on these boards.
This is what YOU said: “…you and your fellow gay Democrats have called their actions “pro-gay” and “gay-supportive” and demanded that gays give them endorsements and tens of millions of dollars.”
If you can’t back up your statements, DON’T MAKE THEM. TO DO SO MAKES YOU A LIAR.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
I’ve never denied that. I’ve never commented on that.
Of course you did; you screamed violently that it was a lie to say that you and your fellow gay Democrats — which would include all of those groups — had demanded that gays endorse these candidates and give them tens of millions of dollars.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “…you screamed violently that it was a lie to say that you and your fellow gay Democrats — which would include all of those groups — had demanded that gays endorse these candidates and give them tens of millions of dollars.”
Screamed violently? In fact I said just the opposite. You are LYING. PLEASE STOP LYING ON THESE BOARDS.
posted by A-Nonie-Mousse on
Colorado Patriot, it sounds like you’re becoming clinically unhinged. Screamed violently and then you cap-shout out another paranoia paragraph? Yeow, chill dude.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ANON: “Screamed violently and then you cap-shout out another paranoia paragraph?”
Please learn the difference between a sentence and a paragraph.
posted by MMMM on
I’m curious about several mistakes on the part of the author and some commenters.
– When Varnell writes that “the LGBT community” does not exist, some of the same commenters who agree with him subsequently insist above that it does and the “gay left” is leading it. In fact, there are several conservative gay organizations led by gay conservatives.
– Miller and many commenters object to the “stereotypes” presented in the video. Well, there are many ways to be straight and gay, and probably several ways to become straight or gay. For many, the sex and gender marked attributes of their physionomy and personality are genetically predetermined, the same attributes that seem to put you to shame. Some of those attributes are deliberately “played up” by actors in the video. Nonetheless, the general disposition, and many specific traits, are often inborn, and they actor’s presentations are not inaccurate. Any objection to them is irrational and insane. Certainly, to call them anti-gay is patently reversed. Is there any point to object? I wonder if those who continue to do so are irrelevant to the GLBT community (especially those who also claim the GLBT community does not exist).
– It’s not accurate to ascribe a comedic style to the “left” or to the “right” because any political orientation can and does use satire.
– There are two cognitive errors commenters here often make: maximizing the defects of the other party and minimizing the defect of their own.
posted by notverybright on
From a chat interview I did with the guy behind the video. Here, for me, is the key exchange:
Not VeryBright: Did you make a strategic decision that even more people would be turned away from Giuliani if you made the actors flamboyant?
rjdavisnyc: Sure. I mean, that seems like an obvious thing to think.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
Here is my favorite part of the interview:
Not VeryBright: You decided that people hate gays, so you make your actors as flaming as possible, have them espouse pro-Rudy support, and let that run its course.
jdavisnyc: And, it?s running it?s course. And people are TALKING about how Rudy has flip-flopped on gays. The ad appears to be effective in generating a real conversation. And with that, I?m pleased.
On this point, Davis has let all the air out of your sad little echo-chamber. The point of the video is Rudy’s flip-flop on gay rights. You allow your irrational hatred of effeminate homosexual males to blind you to the real point of the video. Good interview though!
posted by GotBalls? on
Michigan-Matt:
Um, Who the hell is John? You seem to be, as you clearly often are, under some misconception. You responded, unintelligibly, to my comment by repeatedly calling me John. I don’t understand why you would choose to arbitrarily, and incorrectly, rename me rather than using the screen name that I provided.
For the record, and for future correspondence, if you UNETHICALLY choose not to call me by my chosen screen name, my real name is Jerry and I live in Florida.
I guess YOU could call me Jerry-Florida.
The operators of this site can do an IP trace and verify this to be true.
Sorry for not being who you ASS-U-ME?d I was.
posted by PSUdain on
So, basically it seems that every time (well, slight hyperbole, but…) that I read the comments section, it devolves into ColoradoPatriot calling NDT a liar. IN ALL CAPS NONETHELESS. I mean, seriously, calm down before you an attack of some sort. Breathe in…. Breathe out…. Feeling better? Good.
But on to the point I wanted to make–to the fellow who called on gay conservatives to come out and be open. I’m out. I’m open. And I’m quite visible. Don’t over-generalize. I think that’s the biggest mistake that I think everyone makes in this medium. You state the other person’s assumed position instead of rebutting theirs and stating your own. From tossing around the “GayLeft” epithet (who the hell decided all things supposedly repellent get camel-cased?) to refer to a vast chunk of your opponents, to those who go through the mental gymnastics and groupthink to come to the effective conclusion that anti-gay is only such if it’s a Republican who says it, to those who go bandying about such ridiculous statements as, “Gay Republican = Jewish Nazi,” without deference to the views of an individual, I’ve seen it all.
And just because somebody gets his hackles up over the intolerance of some nuts on the left of center side, doesn’t automatically mean that he’s whining. It really does get irritating sometimes–though I would never go so far as to slap that categorization on any gay who’s left of center. For God’s sake people, if you don’t think I can be Republican (or conservative) and gay, read up a little on Barry Goldwater, 1964 Republican Presidential Candidate and father of the modern conservative movement (perhaps now the estranged father?).
Sorry if this isn’t so well organized. I just wanted to rapidly get out a few thoughts there.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
June 25, 2002
Stonewall Veterans’ Association 70-A Greenwich Ave. New York, NY 10011
Dear Friends:
I wish to extend my warmest congratulations to you on the occasion of the 33rd anniversary of the 1969 Stonewall Rebellion. The work of the Stonewall Veterans’ Association keeps the spirit of the rebellion alive. The Rebellion was a triumph at a time when the struggle for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Civil Rights was just beginning.
Over the past several decades, S.V.A. has preserved the spirit of the original rebellion and continues to work tirelessly for the cause of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender and Human Rights in general. Your educational program is exceptional in helping others to learn about the cause, the history and to fight prejudice.
Again, I would like to extend my congratulations and commend you on a job well done.
Sincerely,
Rudolph W. Giuliani
I guess posting this letter from Rudy himself hurts the “gay community” as well?
posted by PSUdain on
Um…no…you see ColoradoPatriot, that’s a letter written by Giuliani himself. As opposed to a bad propaganda piece which tries to play on and stir up anti-gay feelings by using overused, worn out stereotypes and images with the intent of doing harm to Giuliani’s campaign. I would really think the difference to be glaringly obvious.
However, if one tried to use that letter <>in an effort to stir up that anti-gay feeling, well then the action of using it in that manner would hurt (or at the very least not help) the general progress the “gay community” is trying to make to being accepted.
(Full disclosure: I’m not anti-Rudy. I’m not pro-Rudy. Though I do think him one of the better candidates in the Republican field, I don’t have strong feelings on his campaign.)
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
PSU: “…that’s a letter written by Giuliani himself.”
I know, I posted it. Rudy has completely flipped on the sentiment of the letter. He flipped for the express purpose of playing on and stirring up anti-gay sentiment. That is offensive.
Your argument is as clear as mud. You seem to gloss over the hypocrisy of Rudy’s current campaign. Why do you get up in arms about the “offensive” video but not Rudy’s apparent dishonesty?
Do you have strong feelings on his flip-flop on gay rights (aka: the reason for the video and my posting of this letter)? Or are you just going to harangue me about “offensive” stereotypes in highly ironic/comedic YouTube postings?
posted by PSUdain on
I’m aware that you know. I don’t assume that everyone else here is a complete moron; I was reiterating the point for rhetorical effect. And I wasn’t making any points about Giuliani’s shift. Of course I don’t like it. I don’t believe for a minute that it’s a genuine shift, and I think that subsuming ones own beliefs for political ambition is flat stupid and flat wrong. Now that I’ve answered that charge…
To clear up what you seem to think to be mud:
In my post, I was addressing your question, which I read as, “Does me posting this letter harm the ‘gay community’.” To which I answered, “No.” I added the qualifier that if you had done so in order to stir up anti-gay feelings that that action would indeed be harmful (by virtue of, you know, aggravating anti-gay feelings).
Now, the maker of this video stated that he was using it to stir up anti-gay feelings. Ergo–(I think you can fill in the rest of this thought from what I’ve already said in two posts).
Don’t give me this line of crap about “ironic gen-y humor”. This guy is on the record as saying he wants to use it to aggravate anti-gay sentiment against Giuliani. That being the case, it’s certainly not a positive thing for the “gay community”.
Now let me pose this little thought: while he’s changed position and that’s wrong, he’s still the most clearly (if not pro-gay any more) “not anti-gay” Republican. If people in the “gay community” still try to use his (current and/or former) pro-gay positions to inflict harm upon his campaign, how does that help us? Will that encourage Republicans to become more open to considering “pro-gay” positions? Will that encourage already pro-gay Republicans to be open about being such?
If the guy wanted to open a conversation, aren’t there better ways of doing it than producing a video with the express intent of rankling up anti-gay sentiment? For that matter, assuming I’m not blind, deaf, and hallucinatory, I thought the conversation was already occurring (i.e., occurring without the aid of said video). So I still fail to see how this video, made with the intent this guy expressed, is some sort of boon to the “gay community”. Frankly it seems a bit like shooting yourself in the knee to make yourself forget a toothache.
Hope that was clear enough for you, CP.