A gay liberal is promoting his anti-Giuliani YouTube video. Despite some self-justifying rhetoric about exposing hypocrisy, the clear intent is to hurt the GOP presidential front-runner among conservatives by hyping his support for gay rights while mayor of New York. And it deploys some truly offensive stereotypes to accomplish its mission. The whole enterprise says so much about what "progressive" gay politics is about these days.
Can You Say ‘Self-Loathing’?
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52 Comments for “Can You Say ‘Self-Loathing’?”
posted by Xeno on
Self-loathing my ass.
Giuliani’s campaign stated that he didn’t support civil unions in New Hampshire, and later on the GOP debate he showed how much support he gives to gay men and women in the armed forces. Furthermore he stabbed the FDNY in the back by having 9/11 bodies thrown into a dump site because of the gold found in the ruins, while taking credit for the heroism of 9/11.
More importantly, Giuliani is a serious threat to constitutional rights if he ever becomes president. Face it, none of the GOP candidates are presidential material (unless the standard of presidency has been lowered to the level of mediocre cretins). And if you want to support the lesser of evils, you might as well go with the Dems then.
So I say ‘Self-Loathing’? Nope
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Yes, self-loathing.
Especially since said gay liberal has, as I pointed out elsewhere, so much more obvious hypocrisy to go after among their own gay liberal kind.
posted by Hrmph on
I don’t think they’re self-hating. Sometimes you just need to play dirty to win. It happens all the time in politics. Whether I agree with them is another matter though.
posted by Xeno on
Yes, self-loathing.
Especially since said gay liberal has, as I pointed out elsewhere, so much more obvious hypocrisy to go after among their own gay liberal kind.
This coming from someone who actually voted for Rick Perry. How rich!
posted by Hrmph on
I think that if evangelicals put out a subversive spot about Obama and/or Edwards pointing out all their “faith talk” in an attempt to scare “gay leftists” … it would be slimy but, hey… you do what you have to do. Get it?
posted by Randy on
” The whole enterprise says so much about what “progressive” gay politics is about these days.”
How so?
posted by Avee on
Ugly, and willing to traffic in homophobia in order to advance a leftwing agenda.
posted by John on
And this differs from the ugly willingness of the right to traffic in homophobia in order to advance a rightwing agenda how?
posted by Bobby on
You hate Giuliani? Just wait until an Obama or a Hillary Clinton gets elected and decides to fuck you over for some nicer more politically correct minority. Frankly, you people shoudln’t hate Giuliani, he’s a liberal, I thought you people liked liberals and he has gay friends which will enable him to proclaim June as gay pride month, just like Billy Clinton did. Won’t that be fun?
And you better pray Obama doesn’t become president. Our liberal culture allows blacks to hate gays with impunity.
posted by MMMM on
Randy asks the journalist an important question: “How so?” And HRMPH poses the most illuminating analogy. To the author, I would suggest that it falls short of analysis and productive commentary to arrive at and end with cynical spin and a strawman fallacy.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
This coming from someone who actually voted for Rick Perry. How rich!
Yes, and what exactly did Tony Sanchez do when he wanted to knock someone off? Oh yes, go spread the rumor that they were…oh, you know….a “maricon”.
A fact for which he was richly rewarded by gay Texas Democrats, no less.
posted by Greg Capaldini on
The creator of the video publicly credits the “actors.” (Guys, don’t quit your day jobs.) We’ve got another 15 months of this crap coming? Someone please wake me up in 2009.
posted by Audrey B on
Team Red, Team Blue. At the end of the day, it’s still the same stupid game. It’s one I refuse to play, and every one of you should do the same as well.
posted by Lori Heine on
“Team Red, Team Blue. At the end of the day, it’s still the same stupid game. It’s one I refuse to play, and every one of you should do the same as well.”
— Words of sanity, at long last. It is indeed instructive, listening to so many people here tie themselves into rhetorical pretzels arguing that they “team” is better than the other “team.”
This is exactly why I became a Libertarian.
Ah, the delusional worship of crass, blatant political power for its own sake is truly an instructional thing.
Thus do Team Red and Team Blue keep their hold on power. And those pesky gays? Just keep ’em squabbling with each other, and you can keep ’em down forever. Divide and conquer!
Those who are stupid enough to keep jumping through those hoops deserve a whole lifetime of this. Too bad the rest of us can’t simply secede.
posted by Lori Heine on
“They” team. I hate this crowded little cube. Miss a typo and you end up sounding like Granny Clampett.
posted by Jim C. on
The clip might go over the head of older generations. But the Gen Y crowd toward which it’s targeted will get it: far from self-loathing, these guys are making fun of anti-gay stereotypes in a way that shows precisely how ridiculous they are and, in the process, pokes some additional fun at those who buy into them (many of whom are Republican primary voters).
posted by Roy on
The clip might go over the head of older generations. But the Gen Y crowd toward which it’s targeted will get it: far from self-loathing, these guys are making fun of anti-gay stereotypes in a way that shows precisely how ridiculous they are and, in the process, pokes some additional fun at those who buy into them (many of whom are Republican primary voters).
Yes, you got it! Gen Y humor can be confusing to many. If you don’t believe me, pop in a Sarah Silverman DVD in front of anyone not in their 20s. Gen Y humor is anti-PC and often crass, but behind the seeming brutishness is a subversive post-modern awareness.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
Can we give Jim C some kind of award for bringing details of actual substance to these miserable boards? Way to go Jim. Thank you.
posted by Randy on
I ditto Jim C., and yes, he deserves an award, not only for the details, but for showing that not every liberal is a jerk or a self-loathing gay.
Bobby: “You hate Giuliani? Just wait until an Obama or a Hillary Clinton gets elected and decides to fuck you over for some nicer more politically correct minority.”
Chill, Bobby. Sometimes people do not want to make a grand statement about who the next president should be. Sometimes they just want to point out the hypocracies of one candidate.
Cant’ that be enough?
posted by Randy on
“The whole enterprise says so much about what “progressive” gay politics is about these days.”
Well, seeing as no one has bothered to answer by question of “how so”, I will do it myself:
Perhaps some people’s desire to bash gay liberals blinds them to what is right in front of their noses. And that says a lot about ‘conservative’ gay politics these days.
posted by Ryan on
Hey guys. I’m the creator of this video. I really enjoyed the comments and am glad that Jim C and Roy both got it.
Always,
Ryan
blog.myspace.com/ryannewyork
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Well, seeing as no one has bothered to answer by question of “how so”, I will do it myself:
You need not have bothered.
But it DOES make this more ironic:
Perhaps some people’s desire to bash gay liberals blinds them to what is right in front of their noses. And that says a lot about ‘conservative’ gay politics these days.
Perhaps you don’t realize how foolish that looks when you have been presented with evidence that your own party, your own gay organizations, your own candidates, and your own leaders support and endorse the very things that you are bashing others for allegedly doing.
posted by Ben on
When you mentioned “truly offensive stereotypes” I had visions of drag queens and burly men in leather. All I saw was a couple of guys with slight lisps and sweaters tied around their necks. If Stephen H. Miller finds that “truly offensive,” that might say more about him than it does about the state of “progressive gay politics.”
posted by ETJB on
Actually, it says plently about the editor of the IGF when he rushes to suggest that one person (using a YouTube video) represents the entire progressive or left-wing American voters.
Neither political party, or its members are strangers to “dirty politics.” When a candidate “flip flops” on an issue, people are going to point it out, over and over and over…
posted by Jim C. on
Ryan, I loved it! My favorite part was the fourteen or however many domestic partnerships. I love how that line exposes the ways that anti-gay stereotypes are logically incoherent. On the one hand, we’re supposed to be ultra-masculine, promiscuous sex machines. On the other hand, we’re supposed to be feminine lovers of soft light and romance. So here we have a guy who brings the two together in a completely ridiculous way that shows, well, just how incommensurable they are. And that, by treating “domestic partnership” as a legitimate romance category, exposes the clinical, second-class nature of “domestic partnerships” and “civil unions.”
posted by ETJB on
Most LGBT Americans who support the Democratic Party are under no delusion that it is perfect.
However, what is the alternative? The Republican Party leadership has proven itself hostile to many of the human rights issues that LGBT Americans care about.
No Independent or minor political party is a viable choice, under our current electoral system.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ETJB, that sort of rationality has no place on these boards….hasn’t ND30 taught you anything about the earth-shattering threat posed by GAY-LEFTISTS!!!
posted by Audrey B on
So we are all clear:Nether Republicans nor Democrats care a lick about you, regardless of your sexual orientation. Keep that in mind you partisan hacks.
posted by Lori Heine on
“No Independent or minor political party is a viable choice, under our current electoral system.”
And thanks to people with attitudes like that, the situation isn’t likely to improve.
I hate to sound like Mary Poppins, but our attitude does have a lot to do with it. It is our own fear of responsibility that makes us pooh-pooh this. Cynicism is a mask for cowardice.
If we can’t step up — if this world-weary cynicism is all we haev left to mask our servility — then we’ve already lost this country. They’ve taken it away from us without firing a shot. And we have nothing but our own electoral defeatism to blame for it.
The election-as-horserace mentality is the mentality of people resigned to slavery.
No sense in expecting integrity from our elected officials when we don’t have it either.
posted by Avee on
It’s unbelievable to see the creator and his fellow travelers defend this ugly and hateful video. The purpose is to gin up homophobia in the GOP to keep gay Demos on the party reservation. Great goal, huh guys. And the assertion that slight lisps etc. aren’t really negative stereotypes had me gagging. You guys would defend the one true party as they ordered gays into the camps. “Oh, well, the GOP would be worse,” you’d say, as you work tirelessly to make sure the GOP stays anti-gay. The party above all!
posted by Jim C. on
Yes, Avee, and Jonathan Swift was a cannibal.
posted by CLS on
I really think you need to lighten up and stop finding plots under every bushel. This was humor and satire, not a conspiracy to undermine Giuliani (who deserves to be undermined by the way). There is little to the man that a libertarian can like. This attack really sounded like a knee-jerk reaction worthy of Fox News.
posted by Brian Miller on
The election-as-horserace mentality is the mentality of people resigned to slavery.
Absolutely, and it leads to hilarious situations like this article and the first comment after it.
Please Mr. and Ms. Democrat whoreatician, tell me you love me! Tell me I am relevant! Tell me that I might deserve 60% of the rights of someone else!
To the degree that LGBT people don’t have their rights today, it’s largely due to our own incompetence. “We” have political organizations led by socialists on the left who put their collectivist agenda above actual equality, and neoconservatives on the right who put their war agenda above actual equality.
So long as a majority of politically active people give unearned money and unearned credibility to the Clintons, Guilianis, and Romneys of the world — secure in their delusions of “access to real-world power” — the end result will ALWAYS be the same.
And as long as Libertarians, Greens and other candidates who stand up for gay rights are attacked by so-called “gay rights activists” pushing homophobes like Hillary or Rudy, future homophobic Dems and Reps can rest easy — knowing they don’t need to improve their records on the issues.
Unfortunately for those folks, their delusion is about to be popped by reality. Lots of people have had enough, they’re getting involved, and they cannot be bullied into silence to the same degree as their predecessors of a few election cycles ago.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
So…just got around to watching the video. Yep, that is offensive all right. The way that they exposed Guiliani’s vile pandering and dubious hypocrisy was very VERY offensive (those boys sure were cute doing it though). Shame on you, damned GAY LEFTISTS, shame!!
posted by Brian Miller on
Wow, Guiliani flip-flopped on gay rights?!? I had no idea! I thought he was a straight shooter! 😉
posted by randy on
ND30: :”Perhaps you don’t realize how foolish that looks when you have been presented with evidence that your own party, your own gay organizations, your own candidates, and your own leaders support and endorse the very things that you are bashing others for allegedly doing.”
What evidence have I been presented with? That sometimes the Democratic party caves on gay rights? Well, yes, I agree.I bash them for that. And I bash the Republicans for doing that as well. Not allegedly doing, but actually doing it.
but this is far off my point. My point is that this is a simple video, funny and subversive, that takes a swipe at Guiliani. And Miller takes this as an example of how the entire left wing of America actually acts, which is breathtaking in it’s scope. I asked for support for such a breathtaking statement, and received none.
Are there no videos out that take any swipes at Democratic candidates? I hardly think not.
Avee: “t’s unbelievable to see the creator and his fellow travelers defend this ugly and hateful video.”
It’s only ugly if you find effeminate gay men ugly. Not all gay men are as butch as you.
posted by Randy on
Actually, I should amend my comment. ND30 says that my own gay organizations and gay leaders have done something that I bash ‘other’s” (presumaby Republicans) for having doing.
I can’t think of a single thing that any gay organization or gay leader support a position that I disagree with that I haven’t also disagreed with Republicans. I often disagree with our leaders tactics or goals within the HRC, but i can’t think of anything that they have done that Republicans have also done.
But if you have an example, please give it.
posted by dalea on
Well, I am on the very far side of 50. And I really liked the video. Thank you Ryan for a great job.
This video shows actual gay men talking about a candidate and thanking him for his efforts on our behalf. What is the problem here beyond S Miller’s fevered imagination?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
I often disagree with our leaders tactics or goals within the HRC, but i can’t think of anything that they have done that Republicans have also done.
Giving money and endorsements to FMA supporters, for starters.
But I’m sure you can come up with reasons for why it’s a good thing when Democrats do that and why HRC and its leaders are not totally and completely wrong for doing it.
And if you want to know why the Republicans don’t waste their efforts on gays, that’s why; they know full well that you’ll make nasty videos about Giuliani while fellating the FMA supporters in your own party.
It has nothing to do with gay rights and everything to do with the leftist view that being homosexual forces you to vote Democrat.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
Once again, the lying ND30 makes an ass out of himself. Here is a choice quote from his own link (did you even read it?):
“?My greatest concern is that they are inadvertently playing into eager reactionary right-wing hands [i.e. ND30], who are looking for everything they can to discredit leaders of political groups,? Osborne said. ?The honest to God?s truth is that organizations do what organizations do for policy reasons. EMILY?s List has consistently stuck with a narrow litmus test and that is its choice in this country.?
Thanks for being an even bigger idiot than I thought you were ND30…you really make discrediting yourself way too easy.
PS
Look out for GAY LEFTISTS!!! They are sneaking up behind you!!!
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
LOL…..you do realize, CP, is that what Osborne was saying was that it was wrong to point out when Democrat-aligned and gay individuals and groups engaged in hypocritical activities, even when it was involving things that gays were saying are directly counter to gay rights.
Do you agree with her?
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “Do you agree with her?”
I agree with what she said, not your misinterpretation (read: lie) of it. She did not say that it was “wrong” to point out the supposed hypocrisy. She said that to do so feeds the idiot-reactionary smear machine (that would be you, ND30). Why do you feel the need to constantly lie and misrepresent what others say? Don’t you see that this damages your ability to speak out on other issues?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
She did not say that it was “wrong” to point out the supposed hypocrisy. She said that to do so feeds the idiot-reactionary smear machine (that would be you, ND30).
If it wasn’t wrong, why would she care or have concern over it?
And if it’s not wrong, why does she want people to stop doing it?
Why does she object to people pointing this out, for example?
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
How is the weather in your echo-chamber ND30? She never said she wants people to stop pointing out supposed hypocrisy, just that doing so riles up vile reactionaries (you). Why do you feel the need to misrepresent and lie? She gave Ford a $1000 donation. Ford was a Democrat. End of story…why do you think there is something more to the transaction than partisan fund-raising?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
She never said she wants people to stop pointing out supposed hypocrisy, just that doing so riles up vile reactionaries (you).
So why would she even bring that up if it’s not wrong and isn’t an issue or problem?
She gave Ford a $1000 donation. Ford was a Democrat. End of story
So you and your fellow gay leftists and Democrats have no problem and see nothing wrong with endorsing, giving money to, and supporting FMA supporters.
Glad we cleared that up.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “So you and your fellow gay leftists and Democrats have no problem and see nothing wrong with endorsing, giving money to, and supporting FMA supporters.”
I don’t know how you could come to that conclusion other than the fact that you are completely unable to have more than one position on a topic (and your myopic and vile posts prove that this is a sad fact about your retarded mindset). Please don’t lie about and misrepresent people on this board. To do so makes any further points from you irrelevant.
PS
GAY LEFTISTS!!!!
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
It’s obvious, ColoradoPatriot; as you said, “end of story”. You refuse to condemn the behavior and you demand that everyone else shut up and say nothing about it.
So you and your fellow gay leftists and Democrats have no problem and see nothing wrong with endorsing, giving money to, and supporting FMA supporters.
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “You refuse to condemn the behavior and you demand that everyone else shut up and say nothing about it.”
What am I supposed to condemn? Political wrangling made by people who I don’t support or agree with? Why would I have to do that? Please don’t lie and misrepresent others on this board. Do you have any proof to your claim that I have ever “demanded” everyone else to shut up? Don’t you see how your rhetoric and lies muddle your ability to have a rational discussion?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
What am I supposed to condemn? Political wrangling made by people who I don’t support or agree with? Why would I have to do that?
Odd; that has never stopped you from attacking Republicans, conservatives, or organizations for allegedly supporting the FMA, supporting state constitutional amendments, or donating to, endorsing, and supporting candidates and organizations that do exactly that.
Again, it’s obvious you and your fellow gay leftists and Democrats have no problem and see nothing wrong with endorsing, giving money to, and supporting FMA supporters — and that you do everything in your power to smear those who point it out as a means of shutting them up.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Oh, and one more thing.
Don’t you see how your rhetoric and lies muddle your ability to have a rational discussion?
Um…….yeah.
And the river of filth continues to spill from ND30 and his butt-boy MM…was that just some logic I saw float by? Nope, just more crap.
And the river of filth continues to spill from ND30 and his butt-boy MM…was that just some logic I saw float by? Nope, just more crap. one more thing:
posted by ColoradoPatriot on
ND30: “that has never stopped you from attacking Republicans, conservatives, or organizations for allegedly supporting the FMA…”
OK big boy, care to back that statement up with some citations? You can’t, because you are (once again) LYING!!!
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Let me clarify, ColoradoPatriot: you are saying that you have never once attacked Republicans, conservatives, or organizations for allegedly supporting the FMA or anything like it?