The Philadephia Inquirer's Faye Flam looks at new research on the psychological underpinnings of homophobia. She writes that "University of Pennsylvania psychologist and disgust expert Paul Rozin says it's particularly a guy thing-most heterosexual men are disgusted by the thought of touching other men."
Also at work: "The moral compass of the religious right factors in that additional dimension of sanctity/purity, which is driven by disgust as well as religious teachings."
But she also quotes University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Arthur Caplan:
"People used to think it was revolting when two people of different races got married," Caplan says. Letting your sense of disgust guide your views on gay marriage, he adds, "is just bigotry and bias dressed up with the clothes of wisdom."
Or, as Flam nicely puts it: "Isn't it kind of babyish to declare gays immoral because you think their sex lives are icky?"
19 Comments for “Countering the ‘Ick’ Factor”
posted by thom on
The “disgust” of men touching men is an interesting cultural phenomenon. In many countries, such as Indonesia, straight men hang all over each other, and no one thinks a thing of it. I’m curious how we Americans got so twisted up on this issue.
Personal note: I’m always amused at straight men in a movie theater, who often sit every other chair, lest anyone think they’re gay. Recently, I went to movie with a lesbian friend of mine, and she sat with a chair between us, which cracked me up.
posted by Brian Miller on
The prurience of homophobes never fails to amaze me. These people talk about what “homosexuals *do*” in significant detail.
I find that a bit disturbing — without fail, most of the ones I’ve known spend an awful lot of time thinking, in intimate detail, about the sexual acts of other couples they know (or know of). Yikes.
posted by randy on
“most heterosexual men are disgusted by the thought of touching other men”
Not true. Men in plenty of other cultures have no problems touching each other, particularly in Mediterranean and middle eastern cultures. Also, even in America, there was a time when men expressing affection was no problem — one need only look at photos in the past. I specifically bought the picture book of WWII photos of men in the navy and air force who had regularly had no problems hugging each other, and even lounging on top of one another casually to prove to myself and everyone else that men in America once were more affectionate with each other than women often.
I think that partly due to a rise in gay visibility, there has been a downward trend in recent decades in hetero men expressing affection towards another so as to not appear gay, either to each other or themselves.
But to make a general statement that men don’t touch each other is clearly and plainly wrong.
posted by randy on
Thom: “I’m always amused at straight men in a movie theater, who often sit every other chair, lest anyone think they’re gay.”
Me, too. But movie seats have traditionally been rather small, and when you sit next to each other, you are very likely going to brush your arms against another, or a shoulder. Especially during the scary parts.
And what could be more horrifying that a straight man brushing his shoulder against another hetero man — and sorta liking it? Or worrying that your pal sorta likes it?
Better to sit very far apart….
posted by JimG on
I think it’s ridiculous and downright sexist to state that homophobia is a “guy thing”. It makes me think of all those hateful female faces I see in the anti-gay marches and rallies. I’ve known a number of straight females who thought it disgusting and useless for a man to be attracted to another man (and not to them!) I’ve also known straight men who had a deep bond and fellowship with their fellow brothers that I’ve not seen duplicated in many other social groups.
Mr. Rozin needs to grow up. Straight men are disgusted to touch each other? Has he ever heard of the hand shake??
posted by Bobby on
Oh, like gays aren’t disgusted at fat people, old people and anyone they don’t like.
Give me a break. We’re all bigots if you look hard enough.
posted by kittynboi on
Are those gays trying to use their disgust at fat and old people as part of a political movement?
posted by Lori Heine on
Those heterosexuals who use their disgust over gay sex to “justify” their bigotry are actually revealing something else.
They are showing, however unwittingly, that THEY are the ones obsessed with sex. It is they who operate according to the belief that the whole world revolves around their sexual desires and obsessions.
When they accuse gays of this, methinks they doth protest too much. It is a classic case of projection.
It has been my general impression that gay men don’t talk about sex any more than straight men do. The same general similarity holds true between lesbians and straight women.
Maybe if the homo-haters got their heads out of their underpants long enough to think of us as people — the same as they are — we could get somewhere with them.
posted by Bobby on
“Are those gays trying to use their disgust at fat and old people as part of a political movement?”
—That’s not the issue. Most straight people who find gays and gay sex disgusting aren’t necesarily fighting us politically. Not every homophobe is politically active, just like not every vegetarian is vandalizing bioresearch labs.
The issue is the “holier than thou” attitude I often find in certain segments of the gay community. This mentality of “we are such poor victims and everyone else is a bigot” when there’s plenty of bigotry in our own community.
Every group has bigotry. I don’t know one single group that doesn’t hate anyone.
But eventually people learn to put up with one another. Gays are so visible in the media that most Americans already got used to them. And if they find us gays icky? So what? There’s plenty of people I find icky everday.
What are we supposed to do? Pass a law forcing people to like us? Please. Why can’t we all just hate each other and move on with our lives? That’s why America works, people hate each other but they still work together.
posted by Randi Schimnosky on
Bobby said “Most straight people who find gays and gay sex disgusting aren’t necesarily fighting us politically.”.
Wake up and smell the coffee Bobby. Who do you think has voted for all those anti-gay referendums.
posted by Bobby on
That had to do with marriage, Randi, it’s an institution. This is not Europe where a state religion can be forced to accept gay priests or a homophobic preachers faces hate speech charges.
Look, let’s try to understand the straight world. Here you got people who think sex is bad unless you’re married. So marriage is the way they can screw each other without feeling guilty. It’s their version of a gay pride parade. So they’re trying to keep it to themselves just like lesbians like to keep transexuals out of their events. Lesbians want “real women” and straigh people just want to keep their vagina-penis celebration to themselves only.
It’s not homophobic, it’s typical elitism. Gays do that shit all the time. When they advertise for a sex party they’re very clear on who they want and who they don’t want. A gay bar in South Beach even advertised looking for only hot men to come.
Whatever, the reality is that marriage has already become a joke with the high divorce rates and all those idiots getting married by Elvis in Vegas. People just don’t take it seriously, so eventually, we’ll get it legalized. I just hope it doesn’t happen very soon, when gays get marriage they’ll have nothing else to fight about, so they’ll have to fight each other.
posted by anon on
What a bunch of nonsense.
posted by Thomas Horsville on
Bobby | June 30, 2007, 8:04pm: “That had to do with marriage, Randi, it’s an institution. This is not Europe where a state religion can be forced to accept gay priests.”
In which European country was a state religion forced to accept gay priests?
posted by Amicus on
Most people set their moral compasses based on their sense of disgust. This is an additional moral dimension, which he calls purity/sanctity.
How … quasi Freudian. By that, I mean, differences in *types* of disgust.
Consider:
“Wash you hands Johnny, so you don’t catch something horrible.”
versus
“Wash you hands, Johnny, so you are not a dirty little boy.”
As people learn behaviors/attitudes, it matters how they were taught.
A small fraction who are the most inveterate homophobes feel like the boundaries are coming down around them, that their identity is going to get washed away by homosexuals who are ‘taking over’.
posted by Randi Schimnosky on
Bobby said “That had to do with marriage, Randi”. So, what? The point is that contrary to your absurd assertion most people “who find gay sex disgusting” are fighting them politically.
Bobby said “I just hope it doesn’t happen very soon, when gays get marriage they’ll have nothing else to fight about, so they’ll have to fight each other.”
That’s one of the dumbest things I ever heard come out of someone other than Northdallass. Take a look to the north of you, gays aren’t fighting each other in Canada
posted by Craig2 on
Actually, social conservative women tend to be older, out of touch with practical occupational feminism, rather badly educated, and are extinct in Britain and New Zealand. Ours died out in the mid-nineties- the Christian Right here is a boys club.
As for Canada, the United States and Australia, their antifeminist
queen bees are similarly shuffling toward the ends of their mortal coils, and they’ve been a spectacular failure in Canada.
Craig2
Wellington, New Zealand
posted by Bill from FL on
My 3 cents on the “heterosexual males who ick at the thought of touching another guy”:
1. They are taught that it’s GROSS to do so, might make you BE or SEEM GAY for a FEW seconds, and THAT is enough to make others LAUGH at or persecute you. And you don’t want to have to defend yourself against something you don’t want to associate with for that reason. Wonder if it’s different when they are alone!
2. OR Maybe it’s like Quentin Crisp once said on this: “I don’t like peas, and I am glad I don’t like peas because if I liked them I would eat them and I HATE them!”
3. Some folks are just grossed out to varying degrees by things they don’t like or want! Like Ketchup on icecream.
posted by Spanish guy on
Well, all you straight guys who find gay sex icky, let me tell you, the thought of licking what you lick is revolting. I will also add, it’s not all that difficult for straight guys to drop their pants for a blow job, and the more macho the male the faster those pants come off and I won’t get into how they love it when one of us faggots starts playing with their butt. So much for the macho straight dude. Teens sit with a place between them because they are afraid they might get hard touching their buddies. Remember when you were their age, anything and everything made you hard.
posted by Chris on
“Actually, social conservative women tend to be older, out of touch with practical occupational feminism, rather badly educated, and are extinct in Britain and New Zealand. Ours died out in the mid-nineties- the Christian Right here is a boys club.”
That is completely untrue. What about the wives of all those men, or the thousands of women across American who are unmarried and think homosexuality is a sin? What about Concerned Women for America? They’re a pretty powerful lobby.
Homophobia is not a boys-only pastime – and BTW, I really doubt that female homophobia is “dead” in Europe. Do you even live there?