Evangelical leader quits amid male escort's allegations. What's to say? So many lives so painfully repressed and contorted, due to societal and internalized homophobia. For how many more generations, I wonder.
More. Truly pathetic, "Evangelist Admits Meth, Massage, No Sex."
Still more. "I am a deceiver and a liar," Haggard announced in a letter to his church. "There's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life."
The phrase "internalized homophobia" gets tossed around a lot, but it is real--and very, very destructive.
36 Comments for “Not So Suprising.”
posted by Greg Capaldini on
For as long as having a wife and kids is seen as essential to success in life. This isn’t merely a homophobia issue; it’s also about a compulsion to attain influence and about cultivating the outward appearances that aid this effort. We see it in religion, politics, business, the arts, you name it. It’s wearisome, to say the least.
posted by Randy R. on
Homosexuality: If it’s good enough for Ted Haggard, it’s good enough for me.
(Oh yes, we have to find a way to blame the revelation just before the election on the Democrats. Takers, anyone?)
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Whoops, sorry.
Turns out said rentboy flunked the lie detector test he demanded and is in deep financial trouble.
Making allegations against Ted Haggard would seem like an excellent way to harm Marilyn Musgrave and the anti-gay marriage amendment, both of which liberal bloggers who specialize in outing like Pam Spaulding, John Aravosis, and Mike Rogers are raising money for and giving political help to the Angie Paccione campaign in order to do.
Hiring a prostitute to make allegations, especially one who desperately needed the money, is pretty simple. That’s why I think the Paccione campaign, with help from Rogers/Aravosis/Spaulding, did it.
posted by Antaeus on
But Dallas, look on the bright side! This will hurt the Republicans, who discriminate against us to generate “Christian” support for murderous crusades by vengeful Shylocks to the profit of the Halliburtons. Any hey, we didn’t declare this war!
posted by jomicur on
And I suppose it was “the Paccione campaign, with help from Rogers/Aravosis/Spaulding” that made Haggard admit that at least some of the allegations were true> Gosh all get-out, them there evil liberals is forcin’ our men ‘o God to tell lies about theyselves!
posted by Randy R. on
A rentboy who is deep financail trouble? Now there’s a story I’ve never heard about!
(Me, I only go to rentboys with a solid trust fund account)
posted by Bobby on
If the allegations are true, at least Ted Haggard had the decency of using hookers.
As for the drugs, well, maybe he wanted to keep himself in shape.
North Dallas, I would love to agree with you, but why did Haggard quit then? Quiters usually have something to hide. If Ted is innocent, he needs to go on TV and deny this allegations.
“Ah did not have sexual relations with that hooker, Ms. Thing.” LOL.
My only worry is that homophobia seems to be spreading to leftwing circles, I read yahoo forums, the libs are starting to think the GOP is full of gays.
Can you people admit that someone can be a homophobe and a liberal?
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
North Dallas, I would love to agree with you, but why did Haggard quit then? Quiters usually have something to hide. If Ted is innocent, he needs to go on TV and deny this allegations.
One, he did.
The shocking allegations were denied by Haggard, who told KUSA-9News he never took part in a homosexual affair and had always been faithful to his wife, with whom he has 5 children.
Two, the reason he took administrative leave from his role at New Life was to allow the board to investigate, as I understand is outlined in their bylaws. And I’m sure the reason he resigned as the head of the NAE is similar; as he said, he didn’t feel he could continue to be effective with these accusations.
Finally, while Haggard admits to buying meth, he doesn’t admit to using it, which can’t be proved either way; furthermore, said rentboy flunked the lie detector test this morning when asked specifically about the “gay affair” he claims to have had.
Of course, I’m a bit surprised that Steve automatically jumped to the assumption that a paid prostitute was telling the truth, but it fits the fiction that even fairly conservative gays cling to that the reason people are against us is that they’re secretly closeted themselves.
Of course, it could be the fact that we lionize and applaud prostitutes and drug dealers like Jones, especially when they make accusations against religious figures, whether they’re true or not. Personally, I’m not a big fan of associating gays with prostitution, drug use, or antireligious hatred, but hey, whatever brings others cheap thrills, I guess.
posted by Pam Spaulding on
North Dallas Thirty, you can’t be serious about the lodging charges like this against me. I don’t know Jones, never met him, didn’t know anything about Ted Haggard’s “indiscretions.” Where on earth is your evidence with this fairy tale? You won’t find any, btw, because I’ve done nothing that you’ve suggested, and you’re pulling “facts” out of your posterior.
While I support homophobe Musgrave’s defeat, and certainly like to see hypocrites exposed, stating support for her opponent in no way is equivalent to what you’re insinuating. Cut it out.
posted by raj on
Few points I made on another web site regarding HaggardGate:
One, today, “Rev.” Ted Haggard admitted that he lied yesterday. He said yesterday that he did not know Mike Jones, today, he admitted that he did know him.
Two, today, Haggard admitted that he purchased and had in his possession methamphetamines. He said that he later discarded it without using it (if you believe that, I have a bridge in the desert for sale), but that is irrelevant. Possession of meth is a felony, not only in Colorado, but also under federal law.
Three, if you listen close to Jones’s tapes, you will hear that Haggard (assuming that they were of him–and the voice on the tapes certainly does sound like his) was asking Jones to procure more of the substance under consideration. The recording does not specifically refer to meth, but the clear implication from Haggard’s comment today that he in fact did buy meth from Jones, is that on the tapes he was in fact asking Jones to procure meth for him.
posted by Bobby on
North Dallas has a point. I watched O’reilly today and the gay prostitute did fail the lie detector test. I stand corrected.
And yet O’reilly did say that Haggard was finished because of the company he keeps. An evangelical leader is not supposed to be doing those things. Remember that ex-gay who lost his job for being photographed in a gay bar?
Since he does have 14,000 parishioners, he could start his own church and keep his job.
posted by Thomas Horsville on
“North Dallas has a point. I watched O’reilly today and the gay prostitute did fail the lie detector test. I stand corrected.”
Really? Will Ted Haggard also take the lie detector test? I wonder how he will do with his “I bought drugs but did not use them” and “I received massages from a male prostitute but did not have sex with him” stories.
posted by raj on
Polygraph tests aren’t any better than flipping a coin. That was virtually the conclusion of a National Academy of Sciences study of the literature a couple of years ago.
There are a number of reasons for that, but one example will suffice. Aldrich Ames, high-ranking official in one of the US intelligence agencies and long time spy for the Soviets, routinely passed polytraph tests. He was told by his Soviet handlers that the key to passing them was to just relax. He did, and he passed.
The sequence of Haggard’s own statements showed that he was lying–at least about the meth issue. Why would anyone believe an admitted liar on other issues?
posted by jomicur on
Well, as usual the right-wingers are defending a major enemy of the gay community and suggesting there’s something wring with the rest of us. Being too impoverished to hire a proper masseur, Haggard hired a male prostitute instead, got naked with him in a hotel room, and…nothing happened, just absolutely nothing at all. Haggard bought meth, left voice messages saying he wanted more, but…never used it, not even one teensy-weensy time. Anyone who believes that would have to be squirrelly enough to believe in something like a virgin birth or walking on water or the dead rising from their graves. Oh, wait…
posted by Bobby on
Whatever Jomicur, you weren’t there, you don’t know what happened. At least I’m being open minded about this case.
“Polygraph tests aren’t any better than flipping a coin”
—And yet they’re often used. Do you think they’re unreliable because some people know how to beat them?
posted by raj on
Poor Bobby apparently doesn’t know anything about the “smell test.” It’s also referred to as the “it strains credulity” test. In other words, “it strains credulity to believe that someone would buy another couple of hundred dollars of meth, only to throw it away.
In this case, it is exacerbated by the fact that Haggard has changed his story a bit too often, and in that story-changing he has admitted to having committed a felony.
posted by D on
North Dallas Thirty: “Turns out said rentboy is in deep financial trouble.”
The referenced article says nothing about Jones’ financial state. Please correct the link or retract the statement.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
I’ve done nothing that you’ve suggested, and you’re pulling “facts” out of your posterior.
Pam, I wouldn’t get too excited about this. ND30’s reputation for invention is well-known here.
posted by Bobby on
Whatever Raj, you know everything as always. Of course, if a democrat was acused of doing the same thing, you’d be doing everything you can to defend him.
posted by dantoujours on
Jones is confirmed to be in financial trouble.
At the same time Haggard confirmed that he did indeed buy drugs and got a massage from the the guy.
This is a change from the initial story when he denied knowledge of Jones. Also, according to AP, Haggard’s church has decided that he “committed sexually immoral conduct”.
Finally the editor of OutFront, a gay rag in Denver, says that Haggard’s sexuality has been the subject of rumour in Denver’s gay community for years.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
If I believed in karma, I would think it was turning around and tenaciously gumming neoconservative derriere. These are the same sorts who specialized in launching their own pogrom against other elected officials for “immorality,” and who have spent countless days decrying gays for “immorality.”
I’m gay, and I’ve never hired a prostitute for any sort of “massage,” nor have I ever used crystal meth. I think I’m probably pretty typical in that regard. One has to wonder, with all the religious rightists getting their hands caught in the proverbial forbidden cookie jar, how typical Haggard and his ilk is of *them*.
As for the shrill GOP apologists scrambling about like noisy cockroaches on the boards to demand that their own people get special treatment from the gay press, I say, no, no, no. They deserve to be hoisted up on their own petards — to be judged by the same standards they use on others, to be outed with the same ferocity they used to out others, to be discussed and ridiculed in the media with the same intensity they’ve applied to all their enemies in the past.
Nothing less will ensure that their reign of error is thoroughly consigned to the dust bin of history, and their anti-gay crusade is judged to be as immoral as the segregationist crusade their precursors waged with equal vigor and venom.
posted by dalea on
Bobby (who else) says: ‘Of course, if a democrat was acused of doing the same thing, you’d be doing everything you can to defend him.’
The difference seems to be that Democrats can find consenting adult partners. Republicans must pay for sex. Wonder why. Is prostitution an endemic of conservative life?
NL, I do believe in karma; have experienced it directly. Great post.
posted by Bobby on
Dalea, Barney Frank has paid for sex in the past. Remember his sex scandal with a prostitute that lived in his office.
The only difference between democrats and republicans, is that when a republican gets caught with hsi pants down, he is fired. Not censured, not excused, not re-elected, but fired.
“Is prostitution an endemic of conservative life?”
—Don’t be an ass, pick up any gay rag and is full of escort advertisements. Prostitution is popular with men who want to sleep with beautiful men without buying them dinner, booze and drugs first.
“I’m gay, and I’ve never hired a prostitute for any sort of “massage,” nor have I ever used crystal meth. I think I’m probably pretty typical in that regard.”
—-I’m laughing out loud, typical? There’s a crystal meth epydemic in the gay community, I would not call you typical.
My God, I didn’t know gays had the ability to be self-rightious. I guess I must be sorrounded by saints here. Nobody does drugs, nobody hires whores.
Personally, I prefer whores to some gay men who have sex with no emotion, no talent, who are as exciting as going to the dentist. You get what you pay for.
posted by raj on
Poor ignorant, pathetic Bobby
Dalea, Barney Frank has paid for sex in the past. Remember his sex scandal with a prostitute that lived in his office.
Steve Gobie lived in Frank’s office? How did Gobie heat his food? On a hotplate? Where did he sleep? On a cot? One might believe that, at some point, someone working in Barney’s office would have noticed.
There’s a crystal meth epydemic in the gay community…
Apparently, there’s a bit of meth usage in the anti-gay televangelist community, too. What do you propose to do about it? Other than blo(g)viate against gay people, that is.
posted by jomicur on
“Personally, I prefer whores”
So Bobby admits he prefers whores. Wow, who could have guessed? On another thread he confessed that he doesn’t understand the difference between fact and fiction. I have to confess that part of me–the part that enjoys freak shows and is always curious about abnormanl psychology–is finding his ongoing self-revelation fascinating. What’s he going to cop to next? A diaper fetish? Scat? Christianity?
But I also feel cheated. Professional therapists get $100 an hour or more to listen to this kind of thing. Can we arrange for Bobby to compensate the rest of us through PayPal?
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
If one prefers whores, he can choose from a wide selection on the ballot in just a couple of days.
posted by Audrey on
I think Bobby is Jewish, jomicur.
posted by Bobby on
Raj and Jomicur, you can both go to hell. You’re not worth my time.
posted by jomicur on
Who taught you about hell, Bobby? Your pal Rev. Haggard?
posted by Bobby on
No, you did Jomicur. You are the typical hateful queer who creates anger and hate in others.
posted by jomicur on
Golly, you sure put me in my place. Yes sirree, your “and you’re another” response sure fixed my little wagon. I’ll never dare to disagree with you again. And you gave me such an intellectual drubbing, I’m sure no one else will either. The board is yours now, Bobby.
posted by Randy R. on
Michael Signorile interviewed Mr. Jones, the gay hooker, and the transcript is available at http://www.americablog.com. There are plenty of details there, and It makes for fascinationg reading!
posted by ETJB on
I do not recall that Rep Frank paid to have sex with the prostitute that he was dating at the time. I also dont think it is especially nice to use the term “whores” so loosely.
Yet, Frank never championed himself as the great defender of traditional family values. Even before he formally came out he was a liberal Democrat representating a fairly liberal district and has gone on to be one of the more intelligent and respected members of the House by both parties.
Everytime I see him in the news, he always comes off as being smart and honest and does not give or take any bs from Republicans or Democrats on camera.
posted by CPT_Doom on
For the record, Barney Frank did admit, IIRC, to hiring Gobie for his professional “services” before he came out of the closet. It was after this, when Frank allowed Gobie to live in his house’s rental unit (in-law aparment) that Gobie use the premises to run his prostitution ring. No evidence ever was found that linked Frank to the prostitution ring, but Frank was censured by the House for his inappropriate contact with the prostitute.
Whatever the results of the polygraph test (which was done on a radio morning show, and even the tester admitted the conditions were not correct for such a test) it is pretty clear that Haggard has been lying through his teeth every day since the story broke, and now has admitted to “sexual immorality” without admitting exactly what he did. At this point, the former prostitute has the credibility edge. Polygraphs, by the way, are not admissible as evidence in court because of their inherent difficulty to read. Unlike the “lie detector” one often sees on sitcoms, polygraphs work by measuring differences in metabolic rates, a rise in which is alleged to indicated untruthfulness. However, as raj pointed out, it is relatively easy to fake a polygraph test if one is familiar with their use, and really easy to fail one if the test subject is in a highly emotional state.
posted by raj on
CPT_Doom | November 6, 2006, 3:48pm |
…but Frank was censured by the House for his inappropriate contact with the prostitute.
That’s incorrect–although it is unclear what “inappropriate contact with the prostitute” refers to. Frank was reprimanded (which is different from being censured) because he “reflected discredit upon the House” by using his House office stationary to try to “fix” Gobie’s parking tickets.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
While I support homophobe Musgrave’s defeat, and certainly like to see hypocrites exposed, stating support for her opponent in no way is equivalent to what you’re insinuating. Cut it out.
Actually, Pam, I backed off said claim in my blogpost after this, mainly because, after looking at it, the only thing that would tie you to it is circumstantial of circumstantial evidence — and, given our past record of at least being honest with each other, even when we disagree, that’s not something I either should or want to think of you. I apologize.
Next to this:
Apparently, there’s a bit of meth usage in the anti-gay televangelist community, too. What do you propose to do about it? Other than blo(g)viate against gay people, that is.
It is that attitude that facilitated the spread of HIV, and it’s that attitude that has kept meth as an epidemic.
And what I think is really funny is that raj is all too ready to call Haggard a criminal for buying meth, but defends Jones for possessing and selling it.