The National Gay & Lesbian Task Force has a new politically correct obsession, declaring that:
The lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Asian-American community is under-served, under-researched and under-studied.
Well, the gay Asian-Americans I know don't feel particularly under-served in relation to the rest of us, and neither do they lament that they're "under-researched and under-studied."
Last fall the Arcus Foundation awarded NGLTF a $2 million grant, augmented by an additional $1 million from Arcus founder and president Jon Stryker.
The executive director of the Arcus Foundation, incidentally, is Urvashi Vaid, former head of NGLTF, whose book Virtual Equality is an argument against "the mainstreaming of gay and lesbian liberation" and a call for further alliance-building with the left. It's also replete with criticisms of "gay conservatives," among whom she lumps Jonathan Rauch, Bruce Bawer, Andrew Sullivan, Paul Varnell and yours truly. (For more about Vaid, check out my column from a few years back, Who Stole the Gay Movement?)
Incidentally, along with its LGBT focus, the Arcus Foundation's other chief concern is great apes. But I must protest-the foundation is impermissibly excluding and thus further marginalizing the dolphin community.
41 Comments for “Annals of Identity Politics.”
posted by Lori Heine on
Let’s not forget the kelp. Why, there are zillions of them. And what would we do without ’em? (Food chain and all…)
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
This study has the odor of ideological desperation.
I note that one of the partners in the study is Asian Pacific Islander Queer Sisters (APIQS) in Washington, D.C. It is interesting that APIQS is so eager to work with NGLTF, when not once has it shown the slightest interest in practical, local activism to advance gay equality here in Washington. Of course, it is always the groups that are labeled “white” groups that are expected to do all the outreach. The gay Asian groups in D.C. have shown no sign of interest in being anything more than insular social groups. I’ll bet that NGLTF simply went looking for gay Asian groups that they could get to sign on. Well, the Task Force has the money and the staff to go chasing people in this way. This is just another exercise in balkanization and victim-mongering.
posted by Ed Brown on
Some of your best friends are Asian and thus racism does not exist? HA!
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Pardon me, Ed, but to what or whom was that supposed to be a response?
posted by EssEm on
After 20+ years of listening to this victimist blather, I am tempted to have a T-shirt made for myself for Gay Pride this year: “GWM: Exclusive. Insensitive. Homogeneous.” And be done with it.
posted by raj on
After 20+ years of listening to the victimist blather from Irish-Americans (“patty wagons” and “Irish need not apply), Italo-Americans (“dagos” and Mafia), Jewish Americans (“kikes,” and no membership in country clubs), Negroes (I hesitate to list all of the epithets), etc., etc., etc., it is fairly clear to me that sometimes people really have been and sometimes still are discriminated against. Which some of who bitch and moan about the “victimist blather” would rather ignore.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Raj, it is certainly possible to find people who deny that anyone is victimized and that any discrimination occurs, but that is not the point here. The legitimate criticisim of the politics of victimhood is not about denying that there is discrimination but criticising those who embrace victimhood as a way of life — and the opportunists and shakedown artists who stoke it. This professional victimhood is poison to the very people in whose name it is promoted.
posted by dalea on
Hmmm, and just where do we find the opponents of victimization acknowleging this rather obvious fact? Don’t see it here, at all. And don’t think I ever have.
Nor is it clear that anyone actually leads a ‘life of victimhood’. The only evidence for that seems to be that the writer is offended by claims of discrimination. To which rather than investigate and understand, he simply applies a label.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
dalea, I have explicitly distinguished criticism of the politics of victimhood from denial that discrimination exists, yet you pretend I have not in order to sneer. It is you who appears unwilling to investigate and understand. I have been observing and exploring this subject for many years. For anyone remotely familiar with American racial politics to treat it as a fiction requires deliberate self-blinding.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Why does an organization need millions of dollars to “study discrimination against gay Asians?” A competent ethnographic researcher could do it for far less, and likely deliver substantive suggestions which would go a lot farther than the “more government regulations, more laws, more politically correct papering-over-cracks language police” recommendation that Vaid and company will come up with.
posted by Ed Brown on
Steve evidence that gay Asian Americans are not the victims of racism/being under served was the old “some of my best friends are…and they do not seem to complain.” That fact that some how becomes seen as a valid critique of “victimhood” is as revealing as the wiling of some one here to use the term ‘nergo’.
It would seem that some gay white conservatives want to be the ones to decide when a gay person of color is really bringing up an issue of racism or is just blaming the victim, and they want to do so with no serious evidence.
posted by Ed Brown on
Libertarians like to talk about “big government” while not being terribly open about the fact that the even the civil rights act of 1964 is an example of such a case. (can we say America pre-1964?). Soes was the Voting Rights Act.
Such an idea should certainly be debated online and all candidates should have fair and equitable ballot access laws.
How a study about racism is conducted is a valid point to bring up. But that does not mean that racism does not exist or that Steve is capable of knowing if gay Asian Americans are not being properly served by a particular organization by speaking with a few Asian Americans that he knows.
Also, for gay conservatives to cry out agaist vitimhood, when they spend a lot of time being the victim of the ‘gay left’ is funny to read. I know several gay Republicans that do not feel like they are the victm of the gay left or being mistreated. Based on Steve line of reasoning, I could argue that gay Republicans are simply playing the victim card and should go to the back of the bus.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Ed, you seem to be making prejudiced assumptions. You are lumping me in with “gay conservatives” and “gay Republicans,” when I am neither conservative nor Republican. Surely you are not falling into the GWB “If you’re not with me, you’re against me” fallacy.
posted by lurker on
i don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t see any hint of allegations of \\\\\\\\\\\\\\”victimhood.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\” i think you are experiencing a knee-jerk reaction in line with your post-lefty politics. it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’s understandable. however, quickly applying a label and pointing fingers isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t exactly the way to go about things.
gay asian americans are also gay (which makes your comment about great apes and dolphins uncommmonly silly), and therefore, are part of the \\\\\\\\\\\\\\”community,\\\\\\\\\\\\\\” as artificial as that community might be. if a subset of a pre-existing community may have some other concerns that might require some study, don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t you think it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’s a good idea to look into it? question and investigate. why is this a problem?
i do, however, agree with northeast libertarian\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’s solution. throwing exorbitant amounts of money at such a study isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t the answer.
posted by lurker on
i don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t see any hint of allegations of \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\”victimhood.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\” i think you are experiencing a knee-jerk reaction in line with your post-lefty politics. it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’s understandable. however, quickly applying a label and pointing fingers isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t exactly the way to go about things.
gay asian americans are also gay (which makes your comment about great apes and dolphins uncommmonly silly), and therefore, are part of the \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\”community,\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\” as artificial as that community might be. if a subset of a pre-existing community may have some other concerns that might require some study, don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t you think it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’s a good idea to look into it? question and investigate. why is this a problem?
i do, however, agree with northeast libertarian\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’s solution. throwing exorbitant amounts of money at such a study isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\’t the answer.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Actually, it might be good for NGLTF to look into this. It would be the first time that they’ve ever seen a minority that, by and large, has not fallen into the, “it’s not our fault, we’re poor helpless victims” mindset of others.
The end result? Well, when was the last time you heard about the wage, job, education, or property gap between whites and Asian-Americans?
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Libertarians like to talk about “big government” while not being terribly open about the fact that the even the civil rights act of 1964 is an example of such a case
A good point, Ed. Since the Civil Rights Act has been passed, racism has ceased to exist, segregation is nonexistent, and the once-impoverished and crime-ridden central cities of America such as Detroit and Baltimore have flowered into multicultural bastions of tolerance, economic growth, and unrestrained opportunity for all Americans. It’s a good thing the government stepped in!
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Soes was the Voting Rights Act
The voting rights act was “big government?”
Uh, no.
You have a bad habit of confusing libertarians with “states rights” activists, who are more up your alley than they are ours, Ed.
posted by raj on
Richard J. Rosendall | June 19, 2006, 3:42pm |
Come, come, Richard. This “politics of victimhood” claptrap is little more than an extension of “identity politics,” which has been going on in the US since time immemorial. Irish-Americans are more likely to vote for Irish-American politicians, Italo-Americans likewise with Italo-American politicians, white (and black) Americans likewise. Why? Largely because of what can only be referred to as tribal affinities–people in somewhat similar circumstances who distrust the “outsiders,” the “others.”
Gay Americans–to some extent–also form a tribe, although any such “tribal affinity” is usually of second or third tier importance to their other affinities, and that last is one reason why gays have so much trouble in getting gay-rights advocates elected. Example: “I may be gay, but I’m Irish-American first, or Italo-American first, or white first, or black first, or male first or female first.” Being gay takes second rung for more than a few gay people.
posted by raj on
Ed Brown | June 20, 2006, 8:01am |
Libertarians like to talk about “big government” while not being terribly open about the fact that the even the civil rights act of 1964 is an example of such a case. (can we say America pre-1964?). Soes was the Voting Rights Act.
Oh, so what part of the 14th amendment’s requirement that each state give to its citizens equal protection of the law do libertarians not understand? That was the whole point of the Voting Rights Act.
And the fifth section of the 14th amendment authorizes congress to legislate to ensure that the provisions of the amendment be enforced.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
raj, your talk of tribalism is tangential at best, and certainly is no rebuttal of the existence of a politics of victimhood. American racial politics is full of the latter, about which I have written rather extensively. It is widely evident, from Jesse Jackson’s corporate shakedowns to the “Master Plan” paranoia on black-oriented talk radio stations (I have had a running argument with one such radio host for the past decade, so don’t tell me I’m making it up), to calls for Reparations (including by members of the Congressional Black Caucus), to white people being excluded from workshops on racism at NGLTF’s Creating Change conference in order to give blacks a “safe space.” The evidence that the politics of victimhood is thriving is widespread, and only willful blindness or intellectual dishonesty could cause you to deny it.
posted by Ed Brown on
North Dallas
The notion of Asian Americans as the \\\\\\”model minority\\\\\\” is largely a myth.
posted by Ed Brown on
Raj
Libertarians believe that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 violated the ‘right’ of the business owner to keep out blacks, Irish, Jews, etc.
Libertarians believe that the Voting Rights Act of 1965 violates “states rights”.
Oh, so what part of the 14th amendment’s requirement that each state give to its citizens equal protection of the law do libertarians not understand? That was the whole point of the Voting Rights Act.
And the fifth section of the 14th amendment authorizes congress to legislate to ensure that the provisions of the amendment be enforced.
posted by Ed Brown on
“American racial politics is full of the latter,”
Translation: I am using my white male privilege to belittle and degrade the experiences of people of color.
“Jesse Jackson’s corporate shakedowns.”
Translation: Jesse Jackson must speak for all black people, and anyone that is critical of racism of unchecked power must be playing the ‘victim’ card.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Ed evidently cannot respond on the merits, so instead he rewrites my statements into something absurdly cheap and vicious.
Ed, I cited several examples, and pointed out that I have written a great deal on the subject. It is easy to Google my name to find examples. But you’re clearly not interested in having an honest discussion.
What is saddest of all is that it is unscrupulous people like Ed who truly “belittle and degrade the experiences of people of color.” Those of us who insist on treating black people like adults and not infantilizing them are the ones pointing the way forward, while those with a vested interest in keeping “people of color” as permanent victims do their best to paint us as the villains. Incidentally, the expression “people of color” exists solely to serve the obnoxious purpose of locking people into a false racial dualism. Ed’s own racism is demonstrated by his gratuitous and disparaging reference to my being white. This is supposed to serve the cause of liberation. Liberation of whom from what? Of gullible people from their money, no doubt.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Libertarians believe that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 violated the ‘right’ of the business owner to keep out blacks, Irish, Jews, etc.
Libertarians believe that the Voting Rights Act of 1965 violates “states rights”.
While I’ve taken far too much of Ed’s bait, I would suggest to the reader that they allow Libertarians to speak for Libertarians, rather than Mr. Brown the Crazed (and inaccurate) Troll.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Ed’s own racism is demonstrated by his gratuitous and disparaging reference to my being white
I wouldn’t invest too much stock in anything Ed says, Richard. His tactic isn’t to actually debate people, but rather create strawman caricatures which he can rip apart. I suggest that sane folk simply allow him to persist with his incoherent rants in the corner while the rest of us carry on a civil and fact-based discussion.
posted by Ed Brown on
Richard; I pointed out the usage of white privilege in your comments and you have decided to dodge and squirm.
Getting back to the point of the thread; Stephen argues that gay Asian Americans are not being underserved because…well…he formed an opinion by speaking to a few Asian Americans.
“What is saddest of all is that it is unscrupulous people like Ed…”
Ah, since you have been unable to honesty and civilly debate me, you have decided to call me a racist. Cheap, untrue and possibly slander.
You claim to what to treat ‘black people like adults.’ Yet, you are clearly unaware of the concept of white privilege and seem to believe that racism does not really exist, and anyone that suggests otherwise must be a racist. Sounds like the Bush foreign policy doctrine; “agree with me or else you must hate American.”
I have not made any “gratuitous and disparaging reference”. The problem is not your skin color, but rather the unearned power and privilege that comes from your skin color, and how you (and other people here) invoked white privilege to belittle the experiences of people of color with the assumption of “well, racism does not exist so anyone that complains about it must be a no-good victim, a liar or a racist.”
posted by Ed Brown on
Libertarian Party Position on Civil Rights; Libertarians believe that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (and similar laws) violate the right of business owner to keep out blacks, Irish, Jews, gays, etc.
The LP USA platform really makes this clear. “While we do not advocate private discrimination, we do not support any laws which attempt to limit or ban it.”
Perhaps the ‘party of principle’ should be the party of ‘dixie land.’
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
The problem is not your skin color, but rather the unearned power and privilege that comes from your skin color, and how you (and other people here) invoked white privilege to belittle the experiences of people of color with the assumption of “well, racism does not exist so anyone that complains about it must be a no-good victim, a liar or a racist.”
Actually, Ed, what burned me out on the whole racism thing was finding out that blacks regularly taunt and insult black children who do well in school as “acting white”, or call other blacks who succeed in business and don’t vote Democratic “Uncle Toms”, “house slaves”, and “oreos”.
What that tells me is that the black mainstream is interested only in being the victims of others and not in actually succeeding or taking advantage of opportunities.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
ND30: Yes, and when the estimable Dr. William E. Cosby, creator of Fat Albert et al., dares to decry that sort of self-defeating nonsense, people scandalize his name. How it must gall them that he puts vast amounts of money where his mouth is, and goes to rough neighborhoods and sits down with young thugz to give them some of the tough love they have been lacking. But of course none of that can be allowed to matter, because by airing dirty laundry in public he is giving comfort to The Man. But if one is positing a white bogeyman who is comforted by actions that keep black people down, he could hardly be more comforted than by those who accuse a black kid who hits the books of “acting white.”
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Ed, everything you’ve said about me and my views is as wrong as can be. Anyone interested in my actual views on racial politics can visit [REMOVED] and scroll down for my collection of articles on the subject. Considering that I have spent the past quarter century as an activist fighting racism, the notion that I deny its existence is rather quaint. You just think you can intimidate people or distract them by talking trash. But that’s all you have been in this discussion, is a distraction.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
I enjoy watching Ed make a horse’s ass of himself, but it’s becoming too painful to watch. Hint to Ed, Mr. “Defender Against Racism” — before attacking Mr. Rosendall, perhaps you should read his essay about his African boyfriend who he is presently valiantly attempting to save from being deported from Europe back to a life of oppression in Africa. I daresay Richard has a better grasp of realpolitic racial issues from his position in life than you ever will as a gadfly from your basement “office” in lily-white suburban Fargo.
Perhaps you should get out and actually engage people. You’d learn a lot more that way, and perhaps find that your two-dimensional caricatures of people who think differently from you are wrong — and that you’re mostly wrong about the world around you, to boot.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Oh, and Ed, your knowledge and interpretation of the Libertarian Party platform and its implications is about as accurate and honest as Howard Dean’s recent knowledge and interpretation of the Democratic Party platform on gay marriage. Except at least Mr. Dean was articulate.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
Oh, but NL, Ed can simply say that my being involved with an African is but another example of white colonialism, and blah blah blah. No fact ever gets in the way of a dogmatist’s certitudes. Like an old court theologian, he knows his conclusion already; his task is merely to redline the facts and arguments to get him there.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
Having seen Ed in action on other venues, I’m not so sure that he knows what the conclusion is, only that if he does or says things to get attention, he’ll get rewarded with it.
posted by Bobby on
“The problem is not your skin color, but rather the unearned power and privilege that comes from your skin color”
—That is a racist load of crap. You’re judging people on the basis of their race, assuming they’re gonna fail before they even start.
That’s why many blacks like white conservatives more than stereotypical white liberals. We don’t give them pity, we don’t treat them like victims, we don’t assume they can’t do the job or that they need extra help or that the SAT’s are too hard for them. No, we judge them on the quality of their work and their work alone.
posted by Ed Brown on
My ‘interpretation’ of the Libertarian Party platform is fair and balanced. The LP opposes the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the platform is clear about this.
I grew up oversease in the Middle East, and have never lived in Fargo.
The fact that some blacks, you have heard,
say stupid things, is how you judge all black people? Okay dokie.
posted by Ed Brown on
I said: The problem is not your skin color, but rather the unearned power and privilege that comes from your skin color.
Bobby said: That is a racist load of crap.
This from the man thas made numerous racist comments on this message board?
“You’re judging people on the basis of their race.”
No, I am pointing out the existence of white privilege and power. It exists.
“assuming they’re gonna…”
I am not assuming anything, I simply pointed out that white priviledge exists.
This is not an assumption that people will ‘succeed’ or ‘fail’ automatically.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
My ‘interpretation’ of the Libertarian Party platform is fair and balanced
Just like FOX News! How appropriate.
posted by Northeast Libertarian on
This from the man thas made numerous racist comments on this message board?
Bobby is Hispanic, so it’s difficult for a lily-white midwesterner like you to attack him from a faux-moral high horse any more than you’re able to attack Mr. Rosendall as a “racist” despite his African boyfriend. Please, give it up and crawl back into the troll cave. Cheers!