Unlike my partner, I haven't been a fan of NBC's "Will & Grace" for many a year. Sidekick Jack McFarland (played by Sean Hayes) was, to me, the ultimate gay Stepin Fetchit, despite his accolades from the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. And the show's fawning before pop celebrity guest stars made my skin crawl.
But W&G was once kinda sorta ground-breaking for network television, successfully featuring a gay character in a title role. The Washington Post's Hank Stuever presents some interesting parting shots, including his observation that "Marcia Brady got more on-screen action in five seasons of 'The Brady Bunch' than Will Truman got in eight."
29 Comments for “Ta Ta, W&G”
posted by Randy R. on
Since when has TV EVER protrayed a group in a good light? oh sure, maybe some cops or lawyers or doctors — but that’s about it, and certainly not with any consistency. But just about everyone is ridiculed to a degree by TV.
And in America, there is no such thing as bad publicity. The show raised our visibility and helped people get more comfortable about us. Maybe they are more comfortable about laughing at us rather than respecting us, but I’d rather have that than hating us.
posted by kittynboi on
Since when has TV EVER protrayed a group in a good light?
What about the way the x files depicted the government
posted by Michael S on
I loved Amos n Andy when I was a kid, never imagining it was gong to be callled racist. I laughed at the situations Kingfish got himself in; it was funny. They were a whole lot more good time than Cosby, that’s for sure. But they went by the wayside, and now I laugh a lot at W&G. My late friend Gregory Hines thought enough of the show to be in it, and I loved Gregory. The only character in the show who doesn’t ring true is Wil, for the same reasons Geere was never able to portray a gay man convincingly. The rest of the actors more than make up for it, especially Sean Hayes.
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
I thought Michael Boatman’s character on Spin City was lightyears ahead of Will Truman on W&G. That is partly due to the fact that Boatman played a supporting role, but unlike Sean Hayes, Boatman’s character was sharp and not buffoonish. I agree that W&G depended too much on celebrity appearances, though some years back there was a very funny episode where Jack meets the real Cher but is convinced she is a drag impersonator. The character of Karen was amusing for a while, but it all got old for me very quickly. I don’t see much point in having a gay character who is basically not allowed to be really gay. The long-running Friends had more men kissing each other, and they had no gay characters.
posted by Les on
I always hoped for a “Jack and Karen” show – I loved those characters. Closest thing we have to Absolutely Fabulous in the USA. Will & Grace, on the other hand, were so painfully difficult to listen to I haven’t watched the show for years, after being a loyal watcher for a while. Oddly, Jack and Karen in a way were always more real than Will and Grace: W&G always had an ulterior motive, were never honest with themselves or other people; while Jack & Karen were who they were with no apologies.
That Cher episode was hysterical.
posted by Lori Heine on
I always thought that Grace, especially, was pathetic. It was never really clear what she wanted from Will: the perfect girlfriend (who’s perfect because he isn’t a girl), a chaste lover, or simply the one person who never got tired of hearing her whine.
I know she was supposed to be the classic “fag hag” (I really think Karen did a better job with that), but I always got the feeling Grace wanted the one thing from Will that he could never give her — that he would fall in love with her. Not understanding the dynamics of gay-straight friendships (or maybe simply not knowing how to accurately portray them to obtuse mid-America), Hollywood made a confused mishmash out of what might have been a much more interesting relationship.
The real disappointment was that Will never got the chance to really enjoy a satisfying love relationship with any of the men he dated. Grace is shown as being hungry for love — but he’s always looking for the next big score (and rarely even allowed to have that much).
posted by Kevin on
I know it’s a silly, far from perfect show, but in the fall of ’98 when I was still closeted and began to watch it (Being sure to not let my church friends know, of course.), I remember envying how freely the characters of Will and Jack could live their lives. “If only,” I thought. Well, a few months later, I got to live out that freedom. So, I do have a warm spot in my heart for the program, and will have to get my Karen and Jack fix in syndication from time-to-time.
posted by Anthony on
Is it wrong of me to be leaving the house shortly to attend a “Will and Grace” final episode party? Perhaps. Is it wrong of me to be angry that my fellow Republicans are fanning the flames of marriage again this summer in Georgia, Alabama and elsehwere? No, but realitistically I see the point of firing up the base. And don’t tell me the Dems wouldn’t be doing it too if the issue worked for them! At any rate, I will enjoy the final episode and hope that the next “gay” show focuses more on common, everyday people rather than what the urbanites choose to depict.
posted by Attmay on
Surely I can’t be the only one thinking “Good riddance,” can I? I mean, “Amos ‘N’ Andy” was pulled from reruns by CBS Films in 1966 and this is allowed to run?
posted by kittynboi on
And don’t tell me the Dems wouldn’t be doing it too if the issue worked for them!
If you weren’t so blind, then you would see that they ARE doing it even though it DOESN’T work for them.
At any rate, I will enjoy the final episode and hope that the next “gay” show focuses more on common, everyday people rather than what the urbanites choose to depict.
The URBANITES? Please explain what an “urbanite” is. And tell me what “common, everyday” gay people are like.
posted by Anthony on
Common, everyday gay people aren’t you “boi”
posted by kittynboi on
Do you have anything more specific than that?
posted by Anthony on
Kittynboi, I owe you an apology. I have been rather harsh and cynical in my posts to you. Please accept the gesture. Having said that, I guess I’d like to see a show that depicts gay life as it in the vast swath of America, i.e. suburbs and small towns, as well as rural areas. My partner and I live in a community of about 60,000 people with a university. It’s quite conservative but also has strands of progressive thought too. Does that answer your question?
posted by Boo on
Anthony- most tv shows in general don’t focus on common, everyday people, e.g. Friends, Sex in the City, ER, all the L&Os, 24, etc etc etc. TV execs tend to be “urbanites.”
posted by Ed Brown on
W&G had its moments, I never really got into it, but then again I really do not watch much TV.
I liked Q as F, although I only seen seasons 1, most of 2 and all of 4.
posted by kittynboi on
Please accept the gesture.
I accept.
Does that answer your question?
Yes, I suppose it does. Though I think you expect more from tv than you will get. Gays are not the only ones depicted unrealistically, as others have pointed out. TV shows are dramas, comedy, fantasy, sci fi, horror, etc. By their very nature, they demand a degree of unrealism.
I like “gay’ shows like Queer as Folk and The L Word, and find little fault with them, but things like that don’t get me going too easily either. I don’t watch tv shows for a realistic depiction of the world. If I want a realistic view of the world I can turn the tv off and go outside. Not all shows can be as realistic in its portrayal of what America is like as The X Files was, after all.
posted by kittynboi on
And I’ve managed to come this far in this discussion without ever seeing a single episode of Will and Grace.
posted by Anthony on
I was actually very sad to see the series end. Perhaps that’s because W&G’s first season coincided with my decision to come out in the winter of 1999. It was a huge time in my life. I remember being so excited about going to a gay club! I danced many nights away and just had a great time. Then reality came crashing down on me and I soon began to see how hard it could be to be gay. Still, I look back on those spring, summer and fall days of ’99 with a smile on my face.
posted by kittynboi on
I’ve only been to a gay club once in my life. And it was on a special event at that.
I typically dislike dancing. I hate it, actually. I’m terrible at dancing, and I’ve only done it at goth and industrial clubs.
I don’t like slam dancing/moshing either. Only during a few specific incidents of slam dancing did I not somehow get injured or notably inconveinienced.
posted by george86 on
Like Stephen Miller and so many others above, I never could get into W&G. I tried to, “for the cause,” but I just couldn’t stand it. It did have some some funny moments — but overall there was too much grade school bathroom humor in it, and unimaginative story lines. I always felt that a potential was there to do something really great for us, and the show always missed it.
But one positive thing that came thru in the show was how closely the actors clicked with each other, both on and off stage. They connected, and this connection is something that I think held an appeal for gay people. I think it also held the same appeal for a lot of straights, but moreso for gays.
I’m not sorry the show is ended. I do hope they eventually come up with another one, preferably a comedy, that has quality writing and creativity in it.
posted by kittynboi on
I don’t care for non sitcoms much anyway.
posted by J. Peron on
I will have to disagree with with the main comments. I found the show entertaining. Perhaps Mr. Miller doesn’t know a character like Jack but over the years we’ve all seen them. Sure the characters were exaggerated but humor often relies on exaggeration. And at no point did I see it as malevolent. It was often clever, always funny. And if millions of people found out that they liked Jack or Will characters, albeit fictional characters, they also saw themselves liking someone they saw as gay.
Certainly the religious Right was convinced the show undermined their agenda. It probably did though, unlike their paranoia, I don’t think that was a major purpose of the show, just a happy by product.
As for Amos & Andy if you check you will find a huge fan base in the Black community. I was able to get a full set of the show on DVD because of it.
posted by Ed Brown on
I liked ER somewhat better then W&G, it had a great mini-series of sorts about the Darfur Genocide.
Perhaps they will do one on the genocide in Iraq.
posted by Attmay on
We’ve all seen the Jack McFarlands of the world. I, for one, find them embarrassing; the same way I would feel if I were black and saw pimps, ho’s, and gangstas. I also hate Queer as Folk and Queer Eye For the Straight Guy, and I consider the word “queer” no better than the n-word.
And the Amos ‘n’ Andy DVDs are BOOTLEGS. CBS still holds copyright on all 78 episodes, and they will not expire until 2046 (the 95th anniversary of the show’s premiere).
George, your longing for a comedy with quality writing and creativity will go unfulfilled. Even a competent sitcom will probably not come around any time soon.
posted by marc on
Will & Graace was a sitcom, not a drama, and not unlike Seinfeld in its structure. Here were four people with various idiosyncrancies, who found a common bound in their own shallowness at times. The sitcom als centered around Will and Grace, and, hence, made perfect sense that these characters must remain together. So maybe Will should have had more boyfriends, but that’s a moot point. The show also occasionally raised gay issues, but had to do so in the context of its sardonic tone. W&G is an important point in gay entertainment, but it also grew tired simply because its formula could only mine the same jokes for so long.
posted by raj on
More bull crap from Stephen. Willa & Graceless was nothing more than a slightly modified version of I Love Lucy: two opposite-sex couples who primarily interacted between themselves, and who sometimes interacted between each other. (And it probably wasn’t new with I Love Lucy.) The “I’m Gay!!!” aspect of Willa & Graceless was done 30 years ago with the Billy Crystal character in the sitcom Soap. Please, I don’t need to be pandered to by network clap trap.
We stopped watching Willa & Graceless a number of years ago when (i) the formula became way too obvious, (ii) GE’s (the defense contractor) NBC network kept moving the show around so that it was difficult to figure out when it was on, and (iii) the laugh track became completely obnoxious. Regarding (i), I was somehow waiting for Willa and Jacqui to start pressing grapes with their feet in a grape barrel (to channel an I Love Lucy episode). As far as I know, it didn’t happen.
posted by Anthony on
How about a new show that depicts gay people in the reality they live? My partner and I share a wonderful life here in sleepy Arkansas. We are blessed with friends and family. Of course, that’s not what a network is looking for in a series. Too bad.
posted by Ed Brown on
I found the final episode to be terrible. It felt like the entire thing was rushed, as if they could have used a few more episodes to build up to this.
W&G demonstrated how far we had come and how far we have to go in terms of LGBT on network television.
posted by George on
The conceit of the show was always the false hope that Will and Grace would eventually “get in on” in order to make it palatable to the public. The problem with Will’s lack of boyfriends( or boyfriends who were ciphers) was the still impossibility of presenting two bright, attractive, well-adjusted men in any kind of physical relationship on comedic or dramatic network TV. And such relationship depictions are still quite rare on cable or in film. Even “Brokeback”, which is really a story about the deadly emotional consequences of the closet, stays far away from depicting anything approaching straight sex versions of eroticism availble on soap opears every afternoon.
When we see two sternly-vacuous stud muffin lawyer/doctor/vague-business type guys tongue-kissing on the “Bold and the Beautiful” at three o’clock in the afternoon maybe we will have gotten somewhere. But, don’t hold your breath boys.