The libertarian Cato Institute today hosted a forum on the topic "Is There a Place for Gay People in Conservatism and Conservative Politics?," featuring Nick Herbert, MP, the British Conservative Party's openly gay Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs. Responses to Herbert's remarks (an affirmative reply to the above question) were provided by Andrew Sullivan, a supporter of President Obama who detests the Republican party, and anti-gay activist Maggie Gallagher, who opposes any conservatism that might grant gay people the freedom to legally marry and thus equal liberty under the law.
Rick Sincere has blogged a richly detailed account, which I highly recommend. It's well worth reading.
More. I see that over at Positive Liberty, Jason Kuznicki also has blogged his views of the event (as a libertarian, he's skeptical of the proposition). While Dan Blatt at the proudly conservative and pro-Republican Gay Patriot site takes umbrage at the absence of an actual gay American conservative on the panel.
Corvino, John
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Here’s what it does in Italy:
Uh, Bobby, the Italian government is a rightist government. They’re the anti-progressives.
“There’s such a disconnect in the media regarding what people around the globe think of America. If you ask anyone on the streets of European cities what they think of us, most of what you get is overwhelmingly positive……a kind of admiration.”
—Well, I’d like to think that but sometimes I’m not sure. I read the comments people leave at The Guardian, they’re full of vitriol against Sara Palin, our second amendment, the war in Iraq, our relationship with Israel, etc, etc, etc. I think Europeans admire America but they want us to be more like them which is ironic because if we w ere more like them we would not be worthy of admiration.
“The UC-San Diego Chancellor Marye Anne Fox is a simpleton, and like most who kneel at the altar of political correctness and its insidious, tyrannical agenda, she will be forced to acquiesce.”
—Yeah, she could have used the opportunity to speak about the marketplace of ideas, how some are not popular, to distinguish between vandalism and free speech, but no, she gave a speech about how the school will not tolerate hate. Funny, the school tolerates people who hate Bush, zionists, fat people, smokers, I guess it all depends on whether you hate the right people or not.
“Defamation is not protected speech. ”
—To prove defamation you have to show that the speech isn’t opinion and that there’s malice intended. And when it comes to celebrities or politicians, courts have ruled that they have less protection because they have access to the media and can correct the record. Besides, we shouldn’t be persecuted for what we write in blogs.
“Uh, Bobby, the Italian government is a rightist government. They’re the anti-progressives.”
—There are progressives on the right and the left. Progressive simply means “Big Government.” Have you ever read Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto? The similarities are striking, both works argue for healthcare for all, social justice, workers rights, the evils of the rich… They’re both the same except that one hates the Jews while the other looks at religion at the opiate of the masses.
Italy is like the rest of Europe with speech codes, government involvement in private industry, welfare, and all the rest.
“Besides, we shouldn’t be persecuted for what we write in blogs.”
Why? Sarah Palin’s lawyer would disagree with you.
I already know the parameters for what constitutes defamation. My statement was very clear.
“Why? Sarah Palin’s lawyer would disagree with you. ”
—There is a difference between making fun of Palin and saying that her special-needs baby isn’t hers. See? That’s defamation with malice, thus not free speech. However, if you compare Bush or Obama to Hitler, that’s not defamation, that’s opinion.
So long as you’re clear on the fact that one can defame someone else through what they write on a blog and be sued for it.
Bobby, it’s clear that “progressive” to you is just a dirty word you fling at things you don’t like. It’s also clear you know very little about the policies of the Berlusconi government.
“Bobby, it’s clear that “progressive” to you is just a dirty word you fling at things you don’t like. It’s also clear you know very little about the policies of the Berlusconi government.”
—You need to watch Glenn Beck and learn the history of the progressive movement which has had advocates from Hoover to Roosevelt and FDR. You also need to look at what’s happening in our college campuses, how pro-Israel speakers are shouted down while radical Muslims get to speak their mind in peace.
Did know you prohibition was a progressive idea?
“Susan B. Anthony was one of the many progressives who adopted the cause of prohibition. They claimed the consumption of alcohol limited mankind’s potential for advancement. Progressives achieved success in this area with the enactment of the Eighteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in 1919. However, this was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in 1933.”
Why do you think some progressives compare childhood obesity to child abuse? Why do you think they fight to hard against tobacco, fast food, ATV’s, and anything man enjoys? Because they want to control man, because they HATE individualism and believe in social responsibility.
Here’s another quote:
“One of the hallmarks of progressive thought is the concept of redistribution: the idea that your money and property are only yours if the State doesnât determine there is a higher or better use for it. Teddy Roosevelt made this view clear in his speech on the âNew Nationalismâ in 1910, and I believe most of us recall Obama echoing this modern-day Robin Hood sentiment in his exchange with Joe âThe Plumberâ Wurzelbacher during the last presidential campaign. Roosevelt said that personal property is âsubject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it.â Rooseveltâs thoughts on accumulated wealth were equally illuminating. In the same speech he said, âWe grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary.â Theodore Roosevelt was also the first president to call for national health insurance. See a pattern here?”
Progressives are the enemy, and if you’re willing to get same-sex marriage and lift DADT by sacrificing freedom and embracing big government, you’re not different than a house slave choosing the comforts of his masters house over the perils of freedom.
The American people see through that garbage, Bobby. When they go to Mt. Rushmore, they see the faces of the best America had to offer as examples of leadership and statesmanship. The last modern Republican president worthy of having his face carved into a mountain was Eisenhower. Since then, they have hardly been worthy of having their faces carved into the wood on an outhouse.
The next time a wing-nut snaps and takes out his pathetic grievances against the American people by attacking the federal government, utilizing methods such as we have already seen in recent history, taking out a bunch of innocent Americans with him, egged on by the nasty rhetoric of the Glenn Becks of the world, I hope we drag Beck out of his chair at the station and into the public square and chop his head off.
I’ll pay extra in taxes for a front row seat.
—You need to watch Glenn Beck
What does Glenn Beck have to do with Italian politics?
The next time a wing-nut snaps and takes out his pathetic grievances against the American people by attacking the federal government, utilizing methods such as we have already seen in recent history, taking out a bunch of innocent Americans with him, egged on by the nasty rhetoric of the Glenn Becks of the world, I hope we drag Beck out of his chair at the station and into the public square and chop his head off.
Amazing.
Progressives like Jimmy and their Obama Party want to execute American TV and radio show hosts on the spot merely for what they say, under the assertion that it “causes violence”…..but throw screaming fits over Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his ilk, who not only speak, but actually encourage, fund, support, plan, and carry out the murder of thousands of “innocent Americans” being temporarily deprived of their Koran or getting less than eight hours of sleep.
Then again, 9/11 removed a lot of those “little Eichmanns” that progressives and the Obama Party loathe, and also taught “God damn America”, as Barack Obama and his spiritual mentor refer to it as, a lesson. Perhaps that’s the key; progressives don’t really care about Americans getting killed, as long as it’s by people who share their viewpoint that America deserves it.
” Perhaps that’s the key; progressives don’t really care about Americans getting killed, as long as it’s by people who share their viewpoint that America deserves it.”
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This is cyber-triple-orgasm caliber.
Only Christopher Hitchens and historian KC Johnson elicit this brand of Diva endorsement……..although the full ideologies, sadly, might not be shared.
For further reading related to this subject the latest Dershowitz gem is but one example.
It’s Mad March!
Progressives are the real extremists, these are the people that shout down speeches at universities if the speaker isn’t one of them. I’d rather deal with the reasonable Christian-right than the lunatic progressive left.
Wrong word Bobby. Reactionary would fit the definition better.
“The American people see through that garbage, Bobby. When they go to Mt. Rushmore, they see the faces of the best America had to offer as examples of leadership and statesmanship.”
—I don’t need monuments to know what this country is all about, a copy of the constitution is enough for me. You want role models? George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison and Jefferson should be enough and if all the other presidents that came after them had not tried to mess with the country they created, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in.
“The next time a wing-nut snaps and takes out his pathetic grievances against the American people by attacking the federal government,”
—What are you talking about? The guy you’re referring to wasn’t even a fan of Glenn Beck. Beck is a constitutionalist, he wants America to be what our founding fathers created, not a messy big government welfare state.
Instead of looking for the government to do everything for you, you need to take responsibility for yourself. Want a handout? Talk to your father but keep your manicured hands out of my taxes.
Well, Bobby, Rush Limbaugh actually did have his show screened down here for a brief time in the early nineties. His show ended up cancelled because no-one was watching and it was largely irrelevant to us.
And yep, we have our wingnuts, too, but no-one really listens to them. Talkback radio rates lowly down here, and they’re treated with amused contempt more than anything else. And some of you may be heartened to learn that NZ has ACT (the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers) a vaguely libertarian party, in our current centre-right governing coalition.
I repeat, US gay libertarians and pragmatic centre-rightists need to learn from successful and effective centre-right parties overseas. Sooner or later, the militia/gun-nut/conspiracy theorist/anti-abortion terrorist/racist skinhead/’phobe raving right is going to end up causing one hell of an almighty backlash. And yeah, I’m glad that NZ is too settled for that kind of poison.
Craig2
Wellington, New Zealand
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