Most everybody who's at all interested in gay rights has an opinion about Dr. George Rekers' recent vacation. The Miami New Times did some good journalism in discovering the noted anti-gay doctor's weeklong trip to Europe with a sexy, young male companion/rentboy/prostitute/sex worker.
Rekers presents himself as a scientific authority on homosexuality, and Florida's Attorney General, Bill McCollum (who is now running for Governor, and from Rekers) bought the pitch and paid him $87,000 as one of only two witnesses to defend Florida's gay adoption ban. Rekers testified under oath that lesbians and gay men are mentally unstable and thus unsuitable to be adoptive parents.
I have no idea why Rekers, a 61 year old married man, was taking a vacation in Europe with a 20 year old male; perhaps his wife knows. His explanations covered a lot of territory in their various incarnations: He needed someone to "lift his luggage" because of a recent surgery; He was just evangelizing a sinner (and paying a few thousand dollars for the opportunity, perhaps from the money earned from McCollum and the Florida taxpayers); He had no idea the young man advertised on the explicit Rentboy.com, touting his endowment and willingness to please customers; He was "never involved in any illegal or sexual behavior with his travel assistant."
It may not have been illegal, but if the "travel assistant" is to be believed, reasonable people could conclude that nude body massages involving "the long stroke" across Rekers' penis, thigh and anus is "sexual behavior." I guess it depends on what the meaning of "penis" is.
But as the right once again curdles in embarrassment, and the left piles on, I'd like to offer this observation: If the glaringly obvious conclusion is true, that Rekers is, in fact, a frustrated homosexual who won't allow himself to actually have sex with another man, then he has created for himself, exactly the hell he and his colleagues believe homosexuals are headed for or deserve. I can't imagine what it must be like to share a room - naked - with an attractive young man I've paid a lot of money to, and not have sex with him. Whether that's hell or not, it's certainly got all the earmarks of earthly torture.
And that's really the point. This is the torture closeted lesbians and gay men were forced to negotiate in the days when any disclosure of their sexual orientation could land them in jail, or worse. Even the most private moments could result in exposure, prosecution or blackmail, and the fear of going too far distorted the most intimate relationships. That was daily life for a person of homosexual orientation.
And this is the way the anti-gay side continues to believe the world ought to be. Rekers is, in fact, living in that world, the one so many of the rest of us have left behind as we've claimed our self-respect. His world - his hell - is now inhabited only by those who want it, or believe it is their fate.
That's the small, mean justice of this story.
65 Comments for “Wrecking Rekers”
posted by BobN on
I’ve asked this question in a few places and not gotten any reply, so I’ll try here among the conservatives.
Isn’t anyone outraged at the “expert witness” fee? $87,000 can’t be typical, can it?
And I sure hope someone checks to see if Rekers made any “campaign contributions” after the case.
posted by David Link on
Oh, expert witness fees can go into the millions. It depends on the expertise and experience of the witness, not to mention his or her abilities on the stand to withstand cross-examination (a skill worth plenty).
I’ve never seen Rekers in action, but given the quality of his hedging and flapdoodle here, my guess is he got the better end of the deal with McCollum — who is now stuck with Rekers testimony and subsequent but very real credibility problems.
posted by BobN on
Well, I realized qualified testimony was costly, but his tripe? $87K seems like quite a bit.
I’m hoping, hoping, hoping that some of it turns out to be kickback to the pols who selected him.
posted by Les on
Is Rekers married? I’ve read that he isn’t, but can’t find any verification one way or the other. As the parent of two daughters, 18 and 21, what creeped me out most about this is he adopted a 16 yo boy four years ago. So that young man is the same age as Rekers’ rentboy. This must be VERY disturbing for him.
posted by Bobby on
The rentboy is 20 and is not his son, there is a difference between 20 and 16. What does creep me out is that he could have hired anyone to carry his luggage, I’m sure there are people in his church that wouldn’t have minded a free trip to europe. Instead, he hires an expensive rentboy for who knows how much money.
posted by Les on
Rekers adopted his son 4 years ago, when he was 16, so both Jo-Vanni Roman (the rentboy) and Rekers’ son are currently 20. I know that if, at 20, I learned not only that my dad was hiring hookers (male or female) to “lift his luggage,” but that they were the same age I was, I would have found that more than a little creepifyin’. Maybe it doesn’t bother him, but I can’t help but think here’s another life Rekers has had a negative impact on. A very direct one, if only for the discomfort it will bring the young man socially.
Rekers’ current story was that he hired a prostitute so he could witness to him, just as Jesus ministered to prostitutes. So (presumably) hiring someone from his church to carry his bags would have defeated the point of that ministry.
posted by Jorge on
I’ve asked this question in a few places and not gotten any reply, so I’ll try here among the conservatives.
Isn’t anyone outraged at the “expert witness” fee? $87,000 can’t be typical, can it?
I have no idea. If you’re one of the top 1-3 experts in a small field and your time is precious (which I don’t know if he actually is), maybe. Since you all mention it I’m a little uncomfortable about it.
And this is the way the anti-gay side continues to believe the world ought to be. Rekers is, in fact, living in that world, the one so many of the rest of us have left behind as weâve claimed our self-respect. His world â his hell â is now inhabited only by those who want it, or believe it is their fate.
Well that is a common trait of rightists and conservatives. Whether they succeed or fail, they live the way society ought to be. Yours is a very strange argument. Don’t you know there are people who don’t know they’re gay who are happier than people who know they’re gay (hiya!)? Truth is healthy, but so few people live it that we really need to pay attention to the rest of us who are down here on earth.
posted by Jorge on
Correction. I mean to say the live the way they think society ought to be.
posted by Throbert McGee on
Well, that seems a bit overwrought. I’ve heard stories from gay senior citizens that some of them used to have themselves a grand old time as “closeted” men enjoying full-blown sex in tearooms and out-of-the-way corners at the YMCA — without sneaking out of the country and paying a younger guy money for an erotic backrub.
Anyway, if Rekers’ personal “comfort level” for homosexual contact is strictly limited to massage, then hanging around naked in a hotel room with a rentboy and not having sex wouldn’t be torment; it would feel “just right” to him.
posted by Bobby on
“Isn’t anyone outraged at the “expert witness” fee? $87,000 can’t be typical, can it?”
—What’s outrageous about that? Conservatives and libertarians believe in supply and demand, if you’re an expert witness and people are willing to pay $87K, they’ll support that.
As for the hiring of a 20 year old, how old was Monica Lewinsky when Billy Clinton was sticking cigars in her hoohoo? 21? At least this dude hires his hookers instead of harassing his interns.
“Rekers adopted his son 4 years ago, when he was 16, so both Jo-Vanni Roman (the rentboy) and Rekers’ son are currently 20. I know that if, at 20, I learned not only that my dad was hiring hookers (male or female) to “lift his luggage,” but that they were the same age I was, I would have found that more than a little creepifyin’. Maybe it doesn’t bother him, but I can’t help but think here’s another life Rekers has had a negative impact on. A very direct one, if only for the discomfort it will bring the young man socially.”
—I really don’t see why age is such a big deal, I mean, I don’t know how old was Ted Haggard’s escort, but I don’t think Haggards kids would have cared if the escort was 20, 30 or 40, I don’t think it makes a difference. The fact that your dad is doing those things is bothersome.
Frankly, I am jealous of Reker because he got a very sexy young man, the kind of men I can’t get. His excuses are really pathetic, you don’t pay someone to minister them about the gospel, and you certainly don’t take them to Europe!
posted by BobN on
Conservatives and libertarians believe in supply and demand, if you’re an expert witness and people are willing to pay $87K, they’ll support that.
I happen to know a few people who have provided expert testimony for lawsuits in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Unless he was on the stand for days and days, $87K is out of line. It’s not like he had to do a lot of prep work for his testimony; it’s all bogus theories from the 50s.
Open your tax-payer eyes, Bobby. There are dozens of anti-gay hacks who could spout the same nonsense as Dr. Rekers. Hell, give me a day or two to dig up some “research” and I could do it.
OMG!!! With the files he has, ND30 could corner the market!
posted by Eric Whitney on
You really hit the nail on the head, David. These closeted homophobe hypocrites really are in their own special hell. I’m an escort and have had some guys like this as clients. Though a full-fledged, card carrying member of the liberal homo agenda, I have to say their suffering kind of breaks my heart. Hard to find it in myself to hate them.
posted by Throbert McGee on
As long as they’re paying, of course.
posted by Debrah on
This is a very amusing thread.
Not David’s post. I think Mr. Link writes well. Too bad he’s a Far Lefty or I could shower him with cyber bouquets.
These comments are priceless.
And leave it to Bobby and Throbert to inject some reality.
Here we have a bunch of men—one even a self-described escort!—excoriating another man who apparently is ashamed that he’s turned on by the come-hither azz cracks and the genitalia of other men….of any age.
Deep gaydar denial! Quick! Attack!
An unenlightened global traveler!
Some of you guys need to step back and comprehend how you look……always so worried what other men are doing or not doing in order to evaluate their “allegiance” to your “Man World”.
Which often doesn’t come off as very “manly” at all.
If the guy wanted a regular family and now wants to hide his butt-effing desires…..it’s none of anyone else’s business.
If this scenario is true, then his hypocrisy shines brightly on the old massage table; however, I would be a bit more concerned, and certainly save some of that disgust, for the young man who whores himself out to a married man who’s stumbling in the darkness of the down-low.
Why not mind your own business.
It’s a heck of a lot better than those gay men out there who want to be “out” socially and “in” professionally…….and slink around like girls in their gay gowns when the mood strikes.
They also expect to have it both ways.
posted by Jorge on
I’m an escort and have had some guys like this as clients. Though a full-fledged, card carrying member of the liberal homo agenda…
If I *were* a full-fledged, card carrying member of the liberal homo agenda, I’d be so insulted I’d have to introduce a motion to expel you from said agenda. But if I did that… then I wouldn’t be a full fledged, card carrying member of the liberal homo agenda anymore.
Nothing personal. That’s just the way it is.
posted by Bobby on
“Open your tax-payer eyes, Bobby. There are dozens of anti-gay hacks who could spout the same nonsense as Dr. Rekers. Hell, give me a day or two to dig up some “research” and I could do it.”
—Maybe the others are more expensive, maybe they’re busy. What do you care? It’s just like real estate, you’re free to put your house on the market for $10 million dollars, and other people are free to offer you much much less than the asking price. Reker is obviously a talented individual, he’s probably a great salesman, maybe he looks credible when testifying, maybe he wrote a book. There are plenty of reason why that man could be worth $87,000, of course, right now I don’t think anyone’s gonna hire him, not after the escort incident.
“Here we have a bunch of men—one even a self-described escort!—excoriating another man who apparently is ashamed that he’s turned on by the come-hither azz cracks and the genitalia of other men….of any age.”
—I know, I find it ridiculous. First of all, Reker is not that old. Secondly, a lot of escorts actually prefer old men because they are less likely to be rough in the bedroom.
I can condemn Rekker for being a hypocrite and closet homosexual, but I will not condemn him for his taste in men. When you’re paying good money for a guy, who are you gonna get? A 40 year old or a 20 year old Chances are you’ll look for someone cute in his 20s or 30s.
posted by Gus on
In the tortured logic of the Christian closet, if there in no penetration, you are not lying with a man as you would a woman, therefore you are not gay. It is always just a massageâ¦
posted by Allan on
Total fee was not $87,000, it was $120,000. Fact.
posted by Jorge on
You could do us all a kindness and explain how you know this. We could use a little confidence when there is some dispute.
posted by Jimmy on
“Why not mind your own business.”
Because, this motherfu**er is in my business.
“….I’d be so insulted I’d have to introduce a motion to expel you from said agenda. But if I did that… then I wouldn’t be a full fledged, card carrying member of the liberal homo agenda anymore.
Nothing personal. That’s just the way it is.”
According to whom, Jorge?
It’s always the same with the folks – Screw as I say, not as I screw (knod to Dan Savage).
posted by Throbert McGee on
Um, that’s maybe the “tortured logic” of the Orthodox Jewish closet. Conservative Christians think ANY kind of homosexual contact is an abomination, even if there’s no penetration involved.
posted by Bobby on
“Because, this motherfu**er is in my business.”
—I have to agree with Jimmy, if you make a living testifying against gays you better make sure you aren’t gay yourself. If you are then you have to be exposed.
posted by John on
BobN: Isn’t anyone outraged at the “expert witness” fee? $87,000 can’t be typical, can it?
Yes, but then I have a pesky idealistic streak that thinks such experts should give such testimony out of a sense of duty and public service, while being reimbursed only for their time and expenses at reasonable rates. This streak is rather annoying at times actually and really pisses off the little capitalist inside me.
Bobby: Frankly, I am jealous of Reker because he got a very sexy young man, the kind of men I can’t get. His excuses are really pathetic, you don’t pay someone to minister them about the gospel, and you certainly don’t take them to Europe!
Um…Mr. Reker’s “luggage lifter” advertises on Rentboy.com. For the right price I’m sure you too can find someone with very little effort, though your wallet will be thinner. Sheesh, never heard of this website until this scandal broke. I naively thought the prostitutes – oh sorry “escorts” – all peddled their…wares…on Craigslist and every single singles website.
Bobby: I really don’t see why age is such a big deal, I mean, I don’t know how old was Ted Haggard’s escort, but I don’t think Haggards kids would have cared if the escort was 20, 30 or 40, I don’t think it makes a difference. The fact that your dad is doing those things is bothersome.
If I were the adopted son I personally would be creeped out by the age of the “escort” in this scandal in addition to the fact that my adoptive father was paying to get it on, vanilla-style at least. Beats me how the real adopted son feels about this. He’s completely innocent in this so I wish him the best.
Eric Whitney: I’m an escort and have had some guys like this as clients.
Um…wow. I’m speechless.
If the guy wanted a regular family and now wants to hide his butt-effing desires…..it’s none of anyone else’s business.
This is one of the very few times I find myself in agreement with Rachel Maddow. If it weren’t for the man’s profession, I wouldn’t care. We’re all hypocrites at one time or another in our lives. I also dislike the “outing” practiced by the Left. Yet what makes this news-worthy, and frankly “fair game”, is the profession Rekers chose and his public activities over 3 decades. No, Rekers brought this on himself.
posted by Bobby on
“Yes, but then I have a pesky idealistic streak that thinks such experts should give such testimony out of a sense of duty and public service, while being reimbursed only for their time and expenses at reasonable rates. This streak is rather annoying at times actually and really pisses off the little capitalist inside me.”
—Think about this, many of these expert witnesses may or may not have a full time job, they might have expenses, their books may not be selling enough. So if the market is willing to pay them $80k or more, why not? The lawyers are certainly making 30% or charging big hourly rates, congressmen make $174k in a job filled with perks, the president, the ultimate public servant makes $400,000 a year and gets retirement for life. Think about it this way, if I’m a famous hair stylist and all the celebrities love me, why shouldn’t I charge $500 a haircut? At that rate I can make a good living and keep out the rif raf. Buy the same token, an expensive expert witness gets to make more money with less cases, sounds like a sweet deal to me.
“Um…Mr. Reker’s “luggage lifter” advertises on Rentboy.com. For the right price I’m sure you too can find someone with very little effort, though your wallet will be thinner. Sheesh, never heard of this website until this scandal broke. I naively thought the prostitutes – oh sorry “escorts” – all peddled their…wares…on Craigslist and every single singles website.”
—Sexy escorts are expensive, a guy like that will cost you at least $150, if not $300 for just one hour (and normally you don’t get them the entire time since they tend to make you cum really quickly so they can get leave). Did Reker get him for 7 days? That might cost him $3,000 plus food, lodging and airfare. Rentboy.com actually does require some effort, you have to register as a user before you can even look at the merchandise. Oh, and craiglist is dangerous since sometimes the cops are putting fake ads there to catch unsuspecting users.
“If I were the adopted son I personally would be creeped out by the age of the “escort” in this scandal in addition to the fact that my adoptive father was paying to get it on, vanilla-style at least. Beats me how the real adopted son feels about this. He’s completely innocent in this so I wish him the best.”
—You’re trying to draw an unfair parallel between pederasty and lawful sexuality. Reker may be a lot of things, but I don’t think he adopted a 16 year old because he wanted to molest him, that’s a really creepy thing to imply, and it’s completely unfair. Normal people don’t get sexually excited by their own children, I don’t think Bill Clinton ever molested Chelsea Clinton even though Monica Lewinsky was only a few years older than Chelsea. The only thing that’s gonna creep out his son is finding out that his father may be gay, and that’s universal, Mel White’s own kids went through that.
“I also dislike the “outing” practiced by the Left. Yet what makes this news-worthy, and frankly “fair game”, is the profession Rekers chose and his public activities over 3 decades. No, Rekers brought this on himself.”
—I don’t dislike it, heterosexuals don’t get the luxury of being in the closet, if they get married, get pregnant, get divorced, widowed, have an affair, people eventually find out. Outing simply treats close gays as heterosexuals, instead of saying “you’re special and we’re gonna protect your dirty secret” the media is saying “you’re no better than straight people so you have no right to privacy when you get caught in a lie.”
posted by Jimmy on
“I also dislike the “outing” practiced by the Left. Yet what makes this news-worthy, and frankly ‘fair game’…”
John, is there really that much outing done by the Left that doesn’t involve reprobates such as this specimen, Reker? So, if you’re OK with this spec getting his just desserts, what is it that you find disconcerting, generally speaking?
posted by Jimmy on
spec-speck
posted by Jorge on
According to whom, Jorge?
Sometime when people go against their allies, they decide to break from them instead of (or in addition to) accepting defeat. That has been my experience, although I exaggerated a bit. I do have values. It’s not something I relish.
Oh, and craiglist is dangerous since sometimes the cops are putting fake ads there to catch unsuspecting users
Of all the reasons Craigslist is considered dangerous, why did you pick the one that makes you sound like the dangerous one?
Reker may be a lot of things, but I don’t think he adopted a 16 year old because he wanted to molest him, that’s a really creepy thing to imply, and it’s completely unfair.
I don’t want to admit this, but I find it kinda gay creepy, too. Still, you do hear a lot of stories about old men having affairs with trophy babes who are their daughters’ age.
it does happen more often in straight families.
posted by Jorge on
You know, I don’t really consider this an outing so much as a pure sex scandal.
Now if I hear that there’s a bunch of pro-gay people of the correct politics engaging in illegal or creepy sexual activities of the same sex variety and it’s being covered up, then I’ll be a little upset.
posted by cls on
It turns out that Rekers got $120,000 not $87,000 for his questionable testimony. Don’t assume his testimony is worth what “people will pay.” Remember it was tax money and politicians spending it. And they aren’t concerned about cost, the politician who did it wanted someone to testify a specific way and Rekers was happy to do it because of his theology.
posted by Arthur on
As I surf the gay blogs, many seem reactionary. It is possible for Rekers to not consider himself a homosexual and certainly not gay, especially in the political sense. In the minds of many American males, he is not. Neither is Ted Haggard. Being homosexual is defined by emotional attachment and a specific behavior, anal intercourse. If a male does not participate in âlying with a man as a womanâ he is not homosexual. The charges of self-hating homosexual are everywhere on the gay blogs. This attitude ignores the sexual behavioral continuum, and how lives are lived outside of modern metro labeling.
There are a whole range of behaviors the gay world considers homosexual or at least homoerotic, but are not by many straight identified men. From personal experience, there are men who will touch and be touched from the nipples to the knees, only on the front of the body, but will not use their mouth, that would be gay. Some men use sports as a justification to rub against another man but would never climax with him, some enjoy the nudity and adolescent antics of the shower and locker room, but itâs foreplay for when they get home. There are men who engage in certain sexual acts with a man because it is not really cheating on the wife, it is just the âsex playâ many experienced in adolescence.
Which brings us to the fundamental premise of the reparative therapy movement. The therapy I experienced in the 1970âs was based on maturing past the ‘sin’ of exploratory adolescent sex play. The behavior was considered almost normal and forgivable for a teen, the councilors might have experienced it themselves. But if you continued the behavior into adulthood, you had not become a man. Many mainstream pastors, psychotherapists and psychiatrists thought homosexuality was just a symptom of arrested development. How many times did we hear, âIt is just a phase,â in mainstream culture of decades past. This was also the basis for discrimination. If a man was still behaving in a sexually adolescent manner, his other decisions and actions were likely to be immature.
Just as our national politics have become polarized, so have our sexual politics. You are either straight or gay, thatâs it. Bisexuals complain about this all the time. There is a subset of gay men who hunt for the straight man, he is the best âget,â then they are angry when the man does not participate in the annual parade down Main Street. There are straight men who are truly repulsed by the thought of gay sex, which by their definition is anal sex. And sometimes, especially for males, getting off is just getting off.
Both sides of the sexual culture wars need to mature.
posted by John on
Bobby: Think about this, many of these expert witnesses may or may not have a full time job, they might have expenses, their books may not be selling enough. So if the market is willing to pay them $80k or more, why not? The lawyers are certainly making 30% or charging big hourly rates, congressmen make $174k in a job filled with perks, the president, the ultimate public servant makes $400,000 a year and gets retirement for life. Think about it this way, if I’m a famous hair stylist and all the celebrities love me, why shouldn’t I charge $500 a haircut? At that rate I can make a good living and keep out the rif raf. Buy the same token, an expensive expert witness gets to make more money with less cases, sounds like a sweet deal to me.
Hear that? That’s the sound of the little capitalist inside me cheering. He’s a bit verklemped too. Nevertheless, that pesky idealistic streak remains probably because I’ve read too much about the Founders and their notions on duty and public service. Eh, I’ve learned to live with my inner contradictions.
Bobby: Sexy escorts are expensive, a guy like that will cost you at least $150, if not $300 for just one hour (and normally you don’t get them the entire time since they tend to make you cum really quickly so they can get leave). Did Reker get him for 7 days? That might cost him $3,000 plus food, lodging and airfare. Rentboy.com actually does require some effort, you have to register as a user before you can even look at the merchandise. Oh, and craiglist is dangerous since sometimes the cops are putting fake ads there to catch unsuspecting users.
I prefer not to know the sordid details of what Reker may have done with his “rentboy”. I trust he got his money’s worth, though the cost to his dignity isn’t worth the price IMO. Then of course there’s the “escort” and what this is costing him. Whether it’s from Craigslist, Rentboy or some other source, I can understand the ease in obtaining some gratification but personally find it not worth the cost. Money comes and go but personal integrity lasts a lifetime.
Bobby: You’re trying to draw an unfair parallel between pederasty and lawful sexuality. Reker may be a lot of things, but I don’t think he adopted a 16 year old because he wanted to molest him, that’s a really creepy thing to imply, and it’s completely unfair. Normal people don’t get sexually excited by their own children.
I’m not saying he is a pederast. He has enough problems without dealing with that one too. Yet the adopted son is 20 now just like the “escort” is. I’m saying that if I were his adopted son I would be creeped out wondering if part of the reason he adopted me at such a late age was because he is attracted to young men, even if he never did anything with me. You know that that thought has got to be on the son’s mind.
Bobby: I don’t dislike it, heterosexuals don’t get the luxury of being in the closet, if they get married, get pregnant, get divorced, widowed, have an affair, people eventually find out. Outing simply treats close gays as heterosexuals, instead of saying “you’re special and we’re gonna protect your dirty secret” the media is saying “you’re no better than straight people so you have no right to privacy when you get caught in a lie.”
Nevertheless, given the personal nature of this I do not care for it even if the person in question isn’t supportive of gay rights legislation. What makes this case different to me are the 3 decades of activities isn’t just political differences but this man actively working to keep gays as outcasts and subject to legal penalties because of who we are. The worst IMO was his testimony against gays adopting. One can argue for a traditional family without the kind of lies and garbage this man put out, dehumanizing a group of people.
posted by John on
Jimmy: John, is there really that much outing done by the Left that doesn’t involve reprobates such as this specimen, Reker? So, if you’re OK with this spec getting his just desserts, what is it that you find disconcerting, generally speaking?
I don’t keep score but there’s enough. I answered most of your question in responding to Bobby. I would only add that those folks who by their own actions are exposed, a la Larry Craig, are “fair game” too. What I don’t like is the “outing” practiced by the fellow online whose name escapes me at the moment. Anyone who isn’t an out-and-proud gay liberal Democrat seems to be what he targets and frankly I find that to be despicable.
posted by John on
Jorge: I don’t want to admit this, but I find it kinda gay creepy, too. Still, you do hear a lot of stories about old men having affairs with trophy babes who are their daughters’ age.
it does happen more often in straight families.
Indeed. I find that to be VERY creepy as well. Sure, if you’re in your 40s or older someone half your age can be physically attractive but to me much more is involved then rutting. I’m almost 41 and yes I find some men attractive who are in their 20s but maybe I’m just getting old or something because the thought of having sex with someone who could be my son age-wise at least is a huge turn-off. A 5 year difference? No problem. 10 years? Maybe. Beyond that and the creep factor goes up expontentially.
posted by John on
Being homosexual is defined by emotional attachment and a specific behavior, anal intercourse. If a male does not participate in âlying with a man as a womanâ he is not homosexual.
There are plenty of gay men that very much dislike and do not engage in anal sex. There are also plenty of closeted gay men who lead heterosexual lives while seeking pleasure from other men on the downlow, which again may not even include anal sex. Yes, being gay does involve an emotional aspect but closeted gays seeking only physical release while eschewing any emotional attachment is not exactly unknown. Is Reker gay? Beats me. Yet I do not know any straight men, especially 61 years of age, who deliberately seek out gay “escorts” for massages. If anything they themselves would classify this a homosexual behavior and question Reker’s sexuality because he does do that. Now a good-looking blonde Swedish female massuese? No problem. Scandalous given that Reker is married, but not something that would raise eyebrows about Reker’s sexuality. Physical contact with other males in sports or other such activities – even expressing affection for close friends? Again, not much of a problem. Yet full-body massages which include more intimate touching? No.
posted by Arthur on
” Yet I do not know any straight men, especially 61 years of age, who deliberately seek out gay “escorts” for massages ”
Maybe trying to capture the essence of youth, in a classical Roman sense.
posted by Debrah on
Arthur (9:27 AM)–
Yours might just be the best and most thoroughly significant comment I have read since entering the cyber gates of IGF.
As I’ve stated before, humanoids are extremely complex creatures.
Sometimes attractions and behavior are a moving target. Existing between same-sex and opposite-sex and all in between.
From my experience, many gay men do remain a bit socially-arrested simply because they have kept themselves contained inside the world of men. A quickly forgiving comfort zone which gay men are loath to acknowledge…..because many enjoy the benefits of the so-called “victim” status.
Every negative occurrence is played up to the hilt. The unfortunate Matthew Shepherd case was exaggerated to an extent that even ultra sympathizers became fatigued.
The truth of the matter is that most people are concerned with their own lives and don’t spend much time wondering—or caring!—what someone’s sexual orientation is. Invariably, some gay men and women want to bring in those issues and contaminate every arena in which they might participate.
Both men and women benefit from the natural contact and experiences that result in their having relationships on various levels throughout their lives…..which is why so many gay men are stunted in emotional and psychological ways.
There are gay men who love to be around women because they might share interests and become close as a result.
Then you have gay men—the majority, I think—who know or care nothing about women, and if there is any way to divine a man’s gayness, it’s that kind of emotional sterility and indifference that manifests itself when around women.
This makes the man a very warped human being in his private life.
Likewise for women who have no interest in men.
And there is no doubt that sports, gym workouts, weight-lifting, and body-building are very often used as a way for gay men who are not flamboyant with their gayness to have an excuse to be around male bodies.
On the internet, “respectable” and subdued gay men will subscribe to a bodybuilding site of guys with muscular bodies because that provides a cover for how they really use those videos.
Everyone is attracted and enjoys great physiques; however, the gay male culture takes this aspect of human existence to almost comical levels.
That’s why many are socially-inept and incapable of handling situations on a personal level outside the comfort of the “man zone”.
What you have illuminated, Arthur, is very significant.
I think many men do not want the label of “gay” or “homosexual” and many people—including some inside the gay community—understand, and perhaps share, the natural repulsion with regard to the practice of anal sex.
IMO, and from what I’ve gleaned, gay male culture is the primary reason that SSM has had, and will have, such an uphill battle.
Not lesbians.
But no one wants to discuss the elephant in the room.
When parents have a difficult time trying to explain to their small children how “mommy and daddy” have sex…….it is an enormous visceral dread when entertaining the idea of “schooling” them on how gay men “make love” and that the posterior—the major player during their potty-training—is where gay men go for sexual release.
You can be as liberal as one can be. You can be so far to the left that you are touching Ralph Reed…….
…….but this is still something that most parents do not wish to be brought—even indirectly by passage of SSM into law—into the classrooms of small children.
posted by Bobby on
Hey John,
“I prefer not to know the sordid details of what Reker may have done with his “rentboy”….Money comes and go but personal integrity lasts a lifetime.”
—I don’t think hiring an escort is demeaning to someone’s personal integrity, unless you happen to work in a moralistic professional setting like Rekers does. I mean, we hire mechanics, doctors, gardeners, painters, exterminators, so why “do it yourself” when it comes to sex? Think about Donald Trump, the man changes wives like I change my underwear, he’s too proud to hire a hooker so instead he spends thousands of dollars dating and trying to impress gorgeous women, yet eventually they all divorce him. It’s true that a wife/husband provides an emotional connection a hooker can’t give you, but sometimes doing what’s “right” is not right at all, it’s actually totally wrong.
“I’m not saying he is a pederast. He has enough problems without dealing with that one too. Yet the adopted son is 20 now just like the “escort” is. I’m saying that if I were his adopted son I would be creeped out wondering if part of the reason he adopted me at such a late age was because he is attracted to young men, even if he never did anything with me. You know that that thought has got to be on the son’s mind.”
—If my father had an affair with a 20 year old, I would be freaked out but I would also understand that 20 year olds are prettier and society values prettiness. Also, does the adopted son look anything like the escort? I would doubt that. Look at it this way, guys in their 40s and 50s go to strip bars to put dollar bills in girls as young as their daughters, 20s and 30s. I think men are very good separating love from lust, and I don’t think they lust for their own children, adopted or otherwise.
Jorge:
“Of all the reasons Craigslist is considered dangerous, why did you pick the one that makes you sound like the dangerous one?”
—Do you think it’s fun being arrested for soliciting a prostitute? I’ve never had that experience, and I don’t want to. In the end the media exaggerates too much about craiglist, maybe I’m lucky, maybe I’m not the type that serial killers want, but of all the men I’ve met on craiglist none of them have committed crimes against me.
posted by BobN on
if there is any way to divine a man’s gayness, it’s that kind of emotional sterility and indifference that manifests itself when around women.
This makes the man a very warped human being in his private life.
Yeah, better the heterosexual man whose only interest is women is — how to they put it? — tapping them.
Some men won’t stare at your cleavage, Debrah, get over it.
posted by Debrah on
BobN–
Are you serious?
I’m crestfallen. Totally.
However, I’ve always put more work into legs and azz, myself.
The T’s don’t hold up well for a lot of women after their breast-pump rendezvous.
Go for the annuity.
ROTFLM-tits-O !!!
posted by Jorge on
Neither is Ted Haggard. Being homosexual is defined by emotional attachment and a specific behavior, anal intercourse.
I’ll remember that line if I ever get captured by Islamic fundamentalists. Until then, no.
Do you think it’s fun being arrested for soliciting a prostitute? I’ve never had that experience, and I don’t want to.
Exactly. I am not sympathetic.
posted by Jorge on
I’m crestfallen. Totally.
However, I’ve always put more work into legs and azz, myself.
The T’s don’t hold up well for a lot of women after their breast-pump rendezvous.
Fortunately, the surgical option is much more… uplifting for women than it is for men.
I do hope I am not proved wrong on this.
posted by BobN on
Are you serious?
Yes, though I was snippy. Apologies.
if there is any way to divine a man’s gayness, it’s that kind of emotional sterility and indifference that manifests itself when around women
I’ve had more than one woman tell me that she knew I was gay because I looked her in the eyes and paid attention to what she said. One said it was “refreshing” that I could not only remember the question she had just asked me but actually answered it thoughtfully.
posted by John on
Arthur: Maybe trying to capture the essence of youth, in a classical Roman sense.
A defunct culture that the average modern person has little or no understanding of. Straight men I know of usually try to recapture lost youth through affairs with younger women, attempts to engage in sports or other activities they used to do or dreamed of doing, etc. What I’ve never heard once was a straight man seeking to recapture his youth under the tender ministrations of a gay “escort” giving him an intimate massage. It suppose in a theoretical sense it is possible but in normal discourse it stretches the bounds of credulity a bit too much for my taste.
posted by John on
Bobby: I don’t think hiring an escort is demeaning to someone’s personal integrity, unless you happen to work in a moralistic professional setting like Rekers does. I mean, we hire mechanics, doctors, gardeners, painters, exterminators, so why “do it yourself” when it comes to sex?
None of the other professions you list have the complexity in human affairs and one’s own personality as sex does. I do not agree with debasing sex to be a commodity sold to the highest bidder. It has a degrading affect on the buyer and the seller. As for Donald Trump, his serial monogamy is just as unimpressive and frankly far more damaging to the “sanctity of marriage” than the fevered imaginings of the FRC et al when it comes to gay couples tying the knot.
I think men are very good separating love from lust, and I don’t think they lust for their own children, adopted or otherwise.
Indeed. Yet this would not stop me from being creeped out if I were Rekers’ adopted son. I’m willing to bet that the real adopted son is having thoughts along this line as well. It matters not whether they appear to be rational, such line of thinking would seem to be expected in this situation.
posted by John on
BobN: I’ve had more than one woman tell me that she knew I was gay because I looked her in the eyes and paid attention to what she said. One said it was “refreshing” that I could not only remember the question she had just asked me but actually answered it thoughtfully.
The last woman I dated whilst in the closet years ago was an Hispanic immigrant. I recall her telling me how surprised she was at how passionate I was when the stereotype she had of American men was quite that we are all cold and aloof. Needless to say I was stunned by her comments for many reasons. Poor thing. A good woman that I hope met a straight American man who didn’t fit the stereotype she had about them.
posted by Debrah on
BobN (3:21PM)–
Yes, I’m aware that you can be an introspective and thoughtful person……..
…….with subtle and measured delivery that provides a nice cover for a rather sensitive one, albeit occasionally irritable.
But I chalk all that up to the possibility of your having been born under the Sun Sign of Cancer with a Libran Ascendant.
LOL!
posted by Bobby on
“I do not agree with debasing sex to be a commodity sold to the highest bidder.”
—But it IS a commodity. In the straight world women judge men by the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their job and education. In the gay world we judge guys by looks and penis size. Sex is always a transaction, even if you’re not getting paid for it you’re basically making an offer (your body, your dick) and seeing who accepts your offer.
“It has a degrading affect on the buyer and the seller.”
—Why? When all cards are on the table and you know exactly what you’re getting, how can you get hurt? Sex for money is a lot less traumatic than falling in love, getting a guy to sleep with you, and then find out that he’s cheating on you, or that he ridicules you when he’s angry, or that he’s an abusive boyfriend, or that he’s only with you for your money. If Rekers wanted to experience degradation, he should go to a gay bar and try to hit on men. Frankly, I’d rather hire a whore that pays attention to me than hit on a gay man that ignores me.
“As for Donald Trump, his serial monogamy is just as unimpressive and frankly far more damaging to the “sanctity of marriage” than the fevered imaginings of the FRC et al when it comes to gay couples tying the knot.”
—Good point.
“Indeed. Yet this would not stop me from being creeped out if I were Rekers’ adopted son. I’m willing to bet that the real adopted son is having thoughts along this line as well. It matters not whether they appear to be rational, such line of thinking would seem to be expected in this situation.”
—I would not make any assumptions about the son. A teenager that was adopted at 16 doesn’t have the same bond with his parents as a 5 year old or baby that was adopted. I would not be surprised if the 16 year old refers to his adopted father by his first name. So, with the bond not being a strong I don’t think there’s any chance of trauma unless of course the kid is homophobic.
Either way, I think it’s horribly unfair to make allegations about Reker and his son, we should judge him for what he did, we should not imply that the kid is a child molester or that he wants to screw his own son. When gay couples adopt kids they often face that kind of defamation from the homophobes, so why play the same game with Reker?
posted by BobN on
When gay couples adopt kids they often face that kind of defamation from the
homophobesGeorge RekerNo one deserves that slander, not even the man who made $120K making that slander.
posted by John on
Bobby: But it IS a commodity. In the straight world women judge men by the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their job and education. In the gay world we judge guys by looks and penis size. Sex is always a transaction, even if you’re not getting paid for it you’re basically making an offer (your body, your dick) and seeing who accepts your offer.
Sex feels great, can be a lot of fun even though messy if done right but there’s still more involved than gratification. Well, there should be more involved because when love and commitment are removed from the act it impacts peoples’ views on all 3 in a negative or unrealistic way.
Why? When all cards are on the table and you know exactly what you’re getting, how can you get hurt? Sex for money is a lot less traumatic than falling in love, getting a guy to sleep with you, and then find out that he’s cheating on you, or that he ridicules you when he’s angry, or that he’s an abusive boyfriend, or that he’s only with you for your money.
Love, as with all good things in life, comes with risk that’s certainly true. Yet love and commitment are also what enable us to grow as individuals and sustain us. It’s your life and you are responsible for what you do while living it, just as I am with mine. I do not view hiring prostitutes as anything good for either party in the long run, momentary physical gratification and monetary compensation for the “escort” aside. It sure as hell is not a lifestyle I want any of my family members involved in. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
If Rekers wanted to experience degradation, he should go to a gay bar and try to hit on men. Frankly, I’d rather hire a whore that pays attention to me than hit on a gay man that ignores me.
He wouldn’t be the only one to experience that, which heteros can testify to in their own search for love as well. Frankly, I never liked the whole bar scene and while I’m sure there are exceptions it never seemed to me like a place to meet “Mr. Right” but instead just and endless parade of “Messrs. Right Now”.
I don’t think there’s any chance of trauma unless of course the kid is homophobic.
That’s a possibility given the extreme Right circles Reker must have had him in whilst the young man was living at home. Yet homophobia aside, I still wager the young man is creeped out by more than just that his adopted father’s scandalous relationship with a gay “escort”.
When gay couples adopt kids they often face that kind of defamation from the homophobes, so why play the same game with Reker?
Again, I doubt that Reker is a pedophile. There certainly isn’t any evidence or even rumor of him being such. One doesn’t have to have a completely rational basis to be creeped out by others and their behavior.
posted by Bobby on
“Sex feels great, can be a lot of fun even though messy if done right but there’s still more involved than gratification. Well, there should be more involved because when love and commitment are removed from the act it impacts peoples’ views on all 3 in a negative or unrealistic way.”
—You’re being idealistic, love and commitment isn’t for everybody, in the 1970s gays often had open relationships, gay couples often hired hookers for threesomes and other activities. Do you know what it feels like to go to a gay bar, hit on every cute guy you find, and be rejected by all of them? Do you know how maddening that experience is? How angry it makes you feel? Prostitutes allow average and ugly looking men to experience the pleasures of someone pretty. I call it “sexual democracy” because instead of sexual feudalism where only the “Kings,” “Lords,” and “Nobles,” get the beautiful people, suddenly beauty is available for a price. On the other hand, the path of love and commitment is filled with rejection, denial, degradation, exploitation, suffering, sadness… who needs that? I have more faith in prostitutes than I do in “decent” people.
“Love, as with all good things in life, comes with risk that’s certainly true. Yet love and commitment are also what enable us to grow as individuals and sustain us.”
—Hiring prostitutes on the other hand let us satisfy our desires, demystify beauty because we get to touch it and feel it instead of looking it from afar. A person can grow without love and commitment, people don’t have to follow heterosexual rules of love, marriage and family to achieve happiness.
“I do not view hiring prostitutes as anything good for either party in the long run, momentary physical gratification and monetary compensation for the “escort” aside. It sure as hell is not a lifestyle I want any of my family members involved in. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.”
—I think working in advertising is a lot worse than being a prostitute. I have been exploited, insulted, treated like crap, made to work extreme hours with no overtime pay whatsoever. I’ve had had to carry chairs and tables while the executives had lunch while I was going hungry since copywriters like me are expected to stay in the office to make such office look busy. A talented hooker can make thousands of dollars, a talented copywriter needs to manipulate his way to the top. I have seen copywriters with 25 years of experience get fired and struggle finding work again. You’re right about one thing, I’d rather see my family as porn directors, producers, stars, rather than prostitutes. However, a beautiful person who doesn’t exploit his beauty as either a prostitute, porn star, future porn director, model, actor, is basically wasting a God given gift. For you see, beauty IS a commodity, beauty IS valued by society, beauty IS worth something.
“He wouldn’t be the only one to experience that, which heteros can testify to in their own search for love as well. Frankly, I never liked the whole bar scene and while I’m sure there are exceptions it never seemed to me like a place to meet “Mr. Right” but instead just and endless parade of “Messrs. Right Now”.”
—You know, I learned that there is very little joy from the knowledge that others suffer just as much as you do if not more. If Rekers goal is to experience beauty, why submit himself to the masochistic dating scene? Why not just hire hookers and perhaps later on focus on dating? The beauty of a free society is that you are free to choose what’s right for you, why submit to sexual feudalism and let the Kings and Lords have all the fun?
“That’s a possibility given the extreme Right circles Reker must have had him in whilst the young man was living at home. Yet homophobia aside, I still wager the young man is creeped out by more than just that his adopted father’s scandalous relationship with a gay “escort”.”
—Well, we’re all creeped out by our parents in one way or another. Ever seen your parents french kissing in a swimming pool? Ever caught your mother naked? Ever seen your father walk in his underwear? At least the kid didn’t see his father with the escort.
Either way, I think Reker is spinning the story, maybe he convinced his son that the escort was there only to carry his luggage.
posted by Throbert McGee on
Bobby, maybe the problem is that some of the cute guys actually have personalities and think of themselves as more than a “commodity,” and it’s completely fucking obvious to them that you’re just interested in adding another “scored with a cute twink” notch to your bedpost tally so that you can artificially inflate your wretchedly low self-esteem?
posted by Throbert McGee on
Just to drop another free clue-brick on your head, Bobby: Young guys in their early 20s — the age range you seem to go for — often tend to be idealistic, and frequently have romantic notions about silly stuff like love. So if you approach these idealistic young dreamers while reeking of Eau du Jaded Old Queen, should you be at all surprised when they give you the cold shoulder?
posted by Bobby on
“Bobby, maybe the problem is that some of the cute guys actually have personalities and think of themselves as more than a “commodity,” and it’s completely fucking obvious to them that you’re just interested in adding another “scored with a cute twink” notch to your bedpost tally so that you can artificially inflate your wretchedly low self-esteem?”
—I’d believe you, but when you approach a guy and say “Hi, wassup?” and he acts like you’re not even there, like you’re invisible, then it’s obvious that looks are the most important thing in the world. No look? No conversation, no getting to know you, no first or second date, no nothing. As for my self-esteem, yes, I suppose plenty of guys get pride of screwing someone pretty, why not? Straight guys are the same way.
“Just to drop another free clue-brick on your head, Bobby: Young guys in their early 20s — the age range you seem to go for — often tend to be idealistic, and frequently have romantic notions about silly stuff like love. So if you approach these idealistic young dreamers while reeking of Eau du Jaded Old Queen, should you be at all surprised when they give you the cold shoulder?”
—My age range is 20s and 30s, and if you really think they are idealistic then you obviously can’t tell the difference between someone who’s nice to you because he wants sex and someone who wants to get to know you.
I have seen too much reality to believe in any romantic notions whatsoever. Guys are full of shit, they’re under no pressure to find a boyfriend, they’re too busy with friends, tricks, parties, work, college and a million other distractions.
Opposites don’t attract, even when a guy says “I like hairy guys” he’s really saying “I like hairy guys with a six pack and a tight body.” Love happens by accident, two people must spend enough time with each other to fall in love. How the hell is that possible with all the distractions the average gay man faces today? I remember dating a guy who defined dating as going out with 5 or more friends at the same time.
Throbert, you really are an optimist, I don’t know if you’re like Snow White and have all the birds flying around you singing happy songs, I don’t know if you ignore reality or simply choose to focus on the positive, but I got to tell you, your experience is NOT universal.
Either way, what kind of guy do you think an old guy like Reker could get if he came out of the closet? Do you realize that most 50 and 60 year olds are probably looking for someone younger? Face it, kiddo, Reker is fucked, he might as well stay in the closet because our gay community has nothing to offer him.
posted by jpeckjr on
Late to this, but here’s a question I haven’t seen anywhere. If Dr. Rekers needed a 20-something to accompany him on his trip to Europe to help with luggage, why didn’t he ask his own adopted son to go with him? Perhaps there is a good reason — the son is in college somewhere and couldn’t go, for example. Still, there is a bit of sadness in finding that question needs to be asked.
posted by Jimmy on
Debrah,
This contrived image you peddle that gay men are filled up to their ears in misogyny is baseless and pretty phony. Most of the gay men I know have deep and abiding relationships with wonderful women of all stripes and this nonsense you portray needs to be called just that, nonsense.
posted by Bobby on
“This contrived image you peddle that gay men are filled up to their ears in misogyny is baseless and pretty phony. Most of the gay men I know have deep and abiding relationships with wonderful women of all stripes and this nonsense you portray needs to be called just that, nonsense.”
—Hmmm, I have a deep and wonderful relationship with a woman, but she’s unlike any woman. She does not believe in marriage (although she did get married), she has allowed her boyfriends to sleep with other women, she’s very independent, she’s almost like a man.
Other women I don’t necessarily trust, I kinda resent the fact that they have stolen my best straight friends from me, I don’t like having to say hello to the parents when I’m taking a girl friend out, I resent that they are treated like queens at work while I was treated like a slave, I also hate how I can’t talk to a straight guy without a pair of boobs distracting him… What can I say? I have some misogyny although not to a level of outright hatred.
There are some women I do like a lot, strong women, women who are able to torture men like Pvt. England, women who are loyal and don’t stop being friends with you if they get a boyfriend, women in the military… The problem is those girls are the exception. As for Debrah, I think I like her a lot, she’s very cool and quite fascinating, I could probably get along with her.
posted by Debrah on
“As for Debrah, I think I like her a lot, she’s very cool and quite fascinating, I could probably get along with her.”
***********************************************
Once again, Bobby displays amazing depth and astounding laser beam analysis of character!
I have always admired Bobby’s unvarnished dialogue. It takes strength and courage to discuss topics with such candor as he always employs.
He tells the truth of his experiences without regard to the way others might respond.
And Jimmy, I am quite aware that many positive and significant relationships exist between gay men and hetero women. Duh!
I have said so many, many times.
But that does not eclipse the fact that in many gay quarters, misogyny is displayed ad nauseum and with gusto and giddy approval.
Personally, I couldn’t care less.
I would handle it the same way I handle such things when exhibited by hetero men.
In the end, when I’m done, they feel as though they’ve had a public castration.
Lastly, there is no doubt that many gay men do not feel comfortable or enjoy the company of women.
If this “man world” were so welcoming of women, then the “gay community” would not be seen as being synonymous with “gay male culture”.
Almost everything gay is geared to gay men and their grotesquerie.
posted by Throbert McGee on
No, Bobby — thou hast nothing to offer him. Try speaking for thyself by using first-person singular forms like “I” and “mine”, and stop hiding thine own deeply personal hang-ups in the fog of “we” and “us” and “ours”.
posted by Jimmy on
” As for Debrah, I think I like her a lot, she’s very cool and quite fascinating, I could probably get along with her.”
I completely agree with that statement.
“But that does not eclipse the fact that in many gay quarters, misogyny is displayed ad nauseum and with gusto and giddy approval.”
In many quarters of western civilization, misogyny is well represented. So what? Why single out?
“…there is no doubt that many gay men do not feel comfortable or enjoy the company of women.”
Many? I haven’t experienced it as nearly as I have from straight men. Oh, they have adapted a bit over the last 25 years, thanks to Dave Matthews and Jack Johnson music, but straight men, and the hetero world, has enough misogyny to answer for with shaming and blaming anyone else.
“If this “man world” were so welcoming of women, then the ‘gay community’ would not be seen as being synonymous with ‘gay male culture’.
We don’t make the gay community about gay male culture; people like you do.
“Almost everything gay is geared to gay men and their grotesquerie.”
Completely your opinion, of course.
posted by Debrah on
Jimmy–
As a side issue, it has become quite clear that I will have to provide guidance, and perhaps even an ongoing Diva fitness/diet program for you, Bobby, and Throbert.
I have read whiny effulgences from all of you lately and my senses tell me that you’ve all been letting yourselves go.
You whine about being overweight.
How on earth can you expect to stay as hot as I am if you don’t stop eating so much and develop a strict regimen?
You have to make up your minds that you want to do it!
There is no excuse for anyone—especially men—not to be in good shape……unless you have an illness that impedes the process.
It’s always a bit more difficult for women……but it is easy once you actually decide that being hot is more rewarding than instant gratification.
Again, do I have to go back and retrieve my post to Bobby about the regimen that all of you should be following?
Do you want other people to stare in admiration when you walk into a room……or do you want to be ignored as just bland “average guys” ?
posted by Jimmy on
I recall the regimen; I will not eat like that.
I nearly died, and because of this, I tend to be circumspect about this sort of thing. I’ve been fat, and I’ve been thin – yeah, thin is better. My life is changing right now, and I’m on the move much more than ever. I will lose the weight I’ve put on due to over indulgence. Not being able to eat for months, and weighing in at 110lbs at the time of surgery, are experiences that inspire my gastronomic bacchanal. I spent 20 years at a normal weight, having been a fat kid. I will bring the balance back. Thanks for your concern.
When I walk into a room, people react the way I want them to react.
posted by Bobby on
“How on earth can you expect to stay as hot as I am if you don’t stop eating so much and develop a strict regimen?”
—You don’t know me, you don’t know how I eat, and I resent to be lectured about my diet habits by someone that has never met me. As a 5’11 guy at 216, I’m actually average, I often say “fat” because I compare myself to the guys at Abercrombie & Fitch, who happen to be impossibly thin and toned.
“There is no excuse for anyone—especially men—not to be in good shape……unless you have an illness that impedes the process.”
—That’s ridiculous, there are plenty of excuses. There’s no magic formula for weight loss, no scientific method, there are thousands of little variables between counting calories eaten, calories burned, weight training vs. cardio, increasing or decreasing metabolism, taking suplements or not taking them, getting 8 hours of sleep, not having stress, etc, etc, etc.
Most of the a-holes in good shape were born that way, they grew up playing sports and then graduated to gyms where they flirt with men and work out. Many of them don’t even follow specific diets unless they’re trying to go from 10% body fat to 5% bodyfat. Of course, bodybuilders understand how frustrating losing weight and gaining muscle can be, they know it’s NOT easy.
So no, don’t post your regiment, is useless to me. I track my weight daily, I remember what I eat, I know what works and what doesn’t work. I just get frustrated because results don’t come fast enough, but they do show up eventually.
“Do you want other people to stare in admiration when you walk into a room……or do you want to be ignored as just bland “average guys?”
—I just want to be a skinny bitch so that I can hook up with other skinny bitches. I doubt I’m ever gonna have people staring at me with admiration, if a gay man wants to find something ugly about you, he will. I know, I’m a great judge of beauty myself, I can nitpick like any queen.
posted by Debrah on
Jimmy–
Yes, I seem to recall that you posted something about a health issue.
110 lbs. ? !!
Then you do know what skinny is.
Thanks for being civil. You know I didn’t mean to offend you.
Bobby–
You are most accurate when you say that I do not know you. Never mentioned that I did.
It was not I who brought up those issues. You and the guys were discussing them.
As you should have gleaned by now…….my comments were half serious and half jest.
However, I do stand by the regimen.
But let me just end by saying that the models in Abercrombie & Fitch catalogues don’t look that way either.
Many of the “effects” are lighting and airbrushing.
And it’s obviously quite effective…….although not something I would obsess about.
And you should dismiss with the fact that straight men are not as concerned with their physiques as are gay men.
Straight men—or most of them, anyway—don’t make the issue front and center of their lives.
They love to eff women, raise a family, work to support the family and work even harder on all the spoken and unspoken responsibilities they have that you and most gay men will never have.
So I shouldn’t get started on the realities of those contrasts.
posted by jimmy on
No offense taken.
My Crohn’s Disease is arrested, behind bars, where it belongs. It’s the Hannibal Lecter of diseases.
posted by Bobby on
“As you should have gleaned by now…….my comments were half serious and half jest.”
—Sorry, I took it too personal.
“But let me just end by saying that the models in Abercrombie & Fitch catalogues don’t look that way either.
Many of the “effects” are lighting and airbrushing.
And it’s obviously quite effective…….although not something I would obsess about.”
—Well, I disagree. You can’t airbrush shit. You can’t create abs out of a flabby belly, you have to start with a guy who has abs and then you can exaggerate them. The A&F guys look real because when you go to a gay bar and look at the men there, you’ll find some that look like A&F models, specially the go go boys. So basically, a guy could be skinny yet feel fat because he doesn’t have a six pack, that’s how A&F fucks with your mind.
“And you should dismiss with the fact that straight men are not as concerned with their physiques as are gay men.
Straight men—or most of them, anyway—don’t make the issue front and center of their lives.”
—That’s because women don’t appreciate male beauty as much as straight guys appreciate female beauty. Ms. USA is watched by both men and women, Mr. USA is barely watched by anyone (if it actually makes it to cable). It’s true that women are becoming more picky about the way men look, but beauty alone does not get a guy a girl.
Ironically, some straight men do get obsessed about their looks. Steroid use and abuse, the minority of heterosexuals, straight guys who read GQ, they’re all obsessed about looking their best. Some African-Americans for example make huge efforts to wear expensive Nike shoes, the latest FUBU threads (they’re not cheap), develop great physiques and drive fabulous cars.
“They love to eff women, raise a family, work to support the family and work even harder on all the spoken and unspoken responsibilities they have that you and most gay men will never have.”
—Well, some do, others simply get their girlfriends pregnant, love working late and having affairs while the wife stays home, neglect their children, etc. Besides, straight men are pressured to have that lifestyle, gay men aren’t. When Dan Savage and his partner decided to have a baby they had to spend big money and waste lots of time doing an open adoption. Surrogate mothers are also expensive. Besides, gay men take time doing these things because before you bring a child into your home, you want to make sure that your partner is gonna be there for the long run. Unlike Bristol Palin, we don’t get pregnant by accident and then find out we no longer like our boyfriend.