You don't have to go far to find examples of our opponents subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) invoking pedophilia and child molestation when they're asked about homosexuality. But you'd be hard pressed to find a more explicit, concise and complete conflation of the two distinct subjects than in this letter from Uganda's Martin Ssempa to Rick Warren about Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill. There are precious few paragraphs that do not explicitly misdescribe the bill's goal in terms of protecting children from rape, and those few fill the gap by repeated use of the word "evil" to describe gays.
The bill's own title does not deter Ssempa from his belief that it is only about child molestation, so I won't bother to suggest that a bill drafted to solve that real problem in no uncertain terms would be unobjectionable, and would meet with almost universal support.
But amidst the comically gymnastic rhetoric, Ssempa stumbles upon something about Rick Warren's own position that is no less true for having been made by a fool. In 2008, Warren supported a Ugandan boycott of the Anglican Lambeth Conference because of the ordination of Gene Robinson as bishop. Warren says Ssempa misquotes him in saying at the time that homosexuality is not a human right; on this, all we know for sure is that both Ssempa and Warren can be disingenuous and/or flexible in stating their positions on homosexuality.
Still, the bigger point is this: Despite some current statements, Warren's personal struggle with the issue has found him saying things that give aid and comfort to the Ssempas of the world and their fellow-traveling bigots. (And yes, I am comfortable concluding that Martin Ssempa falls well within even my own narrow reading of the term "bigot"). Warren cannot be surprised that things he has said and done in the past, including his support for the Lambeth boycott and Proposition 8, could lead people to believe he has the same promiscuously anti-gay position that other prominent church leaders seem so proud to declare.
I am glad Warren has now taken a firm stand against the criminalization of adult, voluntary same-sex relations. He will find, if he takes the time to think about it, that it needs no great leap of logic to see that a love that should not be criminalized might also be worth recognizing - at least if you think committed love is a socially good thing.
But the bigger issue for Warren, I think, is to look hard at the tactics and intent of the people who cite him for his anti-gay support. Warren has distanced himself from Ssempa, but why does Ssempa believe Warren should be at his side? Can he see, in Martin Ssempa, a little bit of what it is we have to fight every day of our lives? I can only hope Warren will understand us a little better now that he, too, is the object of one of our ruthless, amoral enemies.
(H/T, as usual, to Box Turtle Bulletin)
14 Comments for “Rick Warren and Martin Ssempa: The End of the Affair?”
posted by BobN on
I am glad Warren has now taken a firm stand against the criminalization of adult, voluntary same-sex relations.
I’m sorry, but after years of fomenting anti-gay hate, a six-minute YouTube doesn’t cut it for me. A “firm stand” against criminalization would have to include a call to DECRIMINALIZE homosexuality. Did you notice that Rick Warren didn’t do that? Have on you noticed that not a single “conservative” leader who has condemned the Uganda bill has called for a repeal of existing punishments?
You give Mr. Warren far, far too much credit.
posted by BobN on
Whatever your purpose in being vulgar, work your magic on someone else, Debrah.
posted by Jimmy on
Insular?
I always thought it was about aesthetics.
posted by Jorge on
Actually I think I won’t complain too much if Warren gets tarred for this.
I think there are far bigger fish to fry when it comes to the subtle and reckless encouragement of anti-gay sentiment among the religious community in Africa.
But Rick Warren is the most famous.
I don’t know why he’s famous, but so he is.
posted by Bobby on
“I’m sorry, but after years of fomenting anti-gay hate, a six-minute YouTube doesn’t cut it for me”
—Look, Warren is the least of the worst, John Hagee is 100 times worst than Warren. Liberal gays really need to stop being so politically correct and understand that not everyone has the same views on gay issues.
“This from a self-identified member of a group so tendentious and selfishly insular that licking cum from a vagina instead of a well-worn azzhole seems rude.”
—I love your vulgarity, but being fair and balanced, I don’t think straight men do that although some of them will get fornicated by a woman wearing a dildo and according to sex columnist Dan Savage, that doesn’t make them gay.
posted by Jimmy on
Warren is a proponent of dominionism and is in league with The Family of C Street and its aims at world domination. As Frank Schaeffer said, “Pastor Rick is the epitome of the two-faced friendly evangelical leader today: say one thing for the public, believe another thing and work for it.”
posted by Debrah on
“……some of them will get fornicated by a woman wearing a dildo and according to sex columnist Dan Savage, that doesn’t make them gay.”
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Any “straight man” who gets off on that is gay, IMO.
I’m not a fan of Dan Savage and have only seen him on Bill Maher’s show occasionally.
He can be clever, but he comes across as someone trying very hard to be intentionally inflammatory about things that are rather passé.
He and his blond waif “house husband”, as Savage calls him, are like an ordinary boring married couple. What fun is that?
On the shows presents himself as histrionically gay and goes over-the-top with the “girlie gossip”….and I can’t stand his prominent Adam’s apple.
By the way, here’s advice for some of you who are tethered to that marriage thing.
posted by Jorge on
I love your vulgarity, but being fair and balanced, I don’t think straight men do that although some of them will get fornicated by a woman wearing a dildo and according to sex columnist Dan Savage, that doesn’t make them gay.
[Vividly tries to imagine the above…. Gets grossed out.]
I think you’re right.
posted by Bobby on
“however, some gay men swap afterward.”
—I’ve only seen that in a particular brand of porn called “felching” and I find it absolutely disgusting. I watch it for what happens BEFORE the swap takes place.
“I’ve always thought of lovemaking as something more sensually pleasing. Sure, the musk of lust is orgasmic……but only if you’re compatible with the “smells” of the other person.
Pheromones are quite alive and well and are essential for truly hot sex.”
—I don’t think pheronomes works with gay men, in our community is all about looks, I know because I’m absolutely the same way. And any liberal who tells me they care about the person can go f-ck themselves, it’s a freaking lie, they only care about the person after they get to know the body, that is IF they like the body and want to see you again.
“That’s why I could never engage in oral sex with someone I hadn’t known for a long time and was not made totally hot from his touch.”
—Yes, but a lot of women say the same thing about oral sex and other forms of sex. Women delay sex, that’s why straight men love porn, the women in porn talk about being horny all the time and having a huge libido, most women don’t seem to have that. Lisa Lampanelli jokes that she hates giving oral sex. See? No wonder straight men hate us, they’re sexually deprived and jealous of us.
“Any “straight man” who gets off on that [being penetrated by a woman wearing a dildo] is gay, IMO.”
—Well, here is the biological explanation. The prostate gland is located near the anus, which is why even straight men sometimes get off when a woman sticks a finger there, or even screws them there. I don’t think a gay men could get off being penetrated by a woman, unless he happens to be heteroflexible or something like that, but then he woudn’t be gay in the first place.
Still, sexuality is a fascinating thing even among the breeders. Although personally I think we gays are more evolved sexuality.
posted by Debrah on
“…..they only care about the person after they get to know the body, that is IF they like the body and want to see you again.”
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That’s perhaps how it really is with everyone, but lots of embroidery is used under the silky veils of ardor.
I wasn’t talking about waiting forever to become wilder with someone you’re really into; however, I think it would behoove everyone—especially with the added risks that accompany some forms of sex—to move slowly.
I’m a very lustful person by nature and have always enjoyed intensity, but I value my life and health a little more.
You always take more risks when you’re very young. And live to regret a few.
The woman (Lisa Lampanelli) that you mentioned is a real pig. Any man would have to be desperate. Have you seen the HEAVY gams on that woman? They’re heavier than those of Hillary Clinton.
It would take Charlton Heston (now deceased) in the role of Moses to part those legs.
And what are the chances any man would make it out alive? LOL!
You’re right, Bobby.
Human sexuality is a fascinating thing. You only really know someone when you know them sexually.
posted by Bobby on
“I wasn’t talking about waiting forever to become wilder with someone you’re really into; however, I think it would behoove everyone—especially with the added risks that accompany some forms of sex—to move slowly.”
—I know some couples wait until they’ve both been tested, but the average gay like me doesn’t wait. We simply wear condoms and hope for the best. So far I’ve never gotten a disease and I intend to keep it that way. Although as I get older I get pickier, if I can’t get a skinny guy then I’d rather watch porn.
“The woman (Lisa Lampanelli) that you mentioned is a real pig. Any man would have to be desperate. Have you seen the HEAVY gams on that woman? They’re heavier than those of Hillary Clinton.”
—So you must be a lipstick lesbian? I guess you’re not gonna be dating any dykes on bykes anytime soon? Well, Lampanelli knows she’s fat but she has no problems getting blacks since apparently black men happen to like big women. A friend of mine is very skinny and he has a fat girlfriend, he says fat women have bigger boobs and he likes big asses as well. What can I say? To each his own.
“Human sexuality is a fascinating thing. You only really know someone when you know them sexually.”
—Which is really scary because among gays, bad sex usually equals no second date. But you know what’s ironic? My best sexual experiences have been with people that were not boyfriend material.
posted by BobN on
Liberal gays really need to stop being so politically correct and understand that not everyone has the same views on gay issues.
Gosh! The don’t!?!?!?
Warren, as you point out, is clearly not the worst of the worst. He is, however, a central figure in what is playing out in central Africa today. HE went there. HE influenced policy. HE bears responsibility.
posted by Debrah on
“So you must be a lipstick lesbian?”
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Ha!
No, I’m not gay. You know that.
Just a hetero diva-type.
It’s in the genes. My mother is a Joan Collins type and I suppose that sort of thing rubs off.
“….if I can’t get a skinny guy then I’d rather watch porn.”
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Why? Is that your type or because you know they will provide a better experience?
By the way, if a gay guy all of a sudden loses lots of weight, could you surmise that he’s in a heavy relationship and is a “bottom”?
Someone told me that and it’s curious.
There are lots of things about which people might be curious and it’s not a wasted effort to discuss them—even humorously as you and I have done.
As you know, I will chide and criticize all so-called groups, none more than heterosexual women—my own so-called group.
And I think that gay men had best take that as a given as well…….since they love to put themselves out there on display with abandon.
There are a few on this blog who show up with the most semi-literate scribblings—all very dirty and misogynistic.
These are the few who don’t have the capacity for debate, but know that many of the candid issues I have discussed here are real and need tending by those who scream for SSM.
Since these people have no strength with regard to writing and verbal skills, they resort to fantastic invention and lies about the personal details of someone without knowing them at all.
I should ignore such people here because to engage will only lead to more descension into their “trailer park” mentality.
And it’s too bad that people cannot hear the realities and discuss them openly. I don’t mind strong detractors, but invention is another thing.
Since they visit my blog, I know in which town they live….so if there’s further harassment, it will be easy enough for them to be identified.
“My best sexual experiences have been with people that were not boyfriend material.”
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I’ve heard that sentiment from lots of people.
You seem to be a thoughtful, bright, and objective kind of guy. I’m sure you will find someone worthy………
……..when you least expect it!
LOL!
posted by Bobby on
“Gosh! The don’t!?!?!?”
—They don’t, liberal gays use the “homophobe” label for anyone who doesn’t support gay marriage. They have to stop doing that, they’re cheapening the term.
“Why? Is that your type or because you know they will provide a better experience?”
—Well, men are visually-driven so when I don’t sleep with someone I like to look at the experience may not be that great. The exception was a fat german, but then again, I have a fetish for german people so there you go.
“By the way, if a gay guy all of a sudden loses lots of weight, could you surmise that he’s in a heavy relationship and is a “bottom”?
Someone told me that and it’s curious.”
—That person was talking crap. There are guys with huge penises that are bottoms, obese guys that are bottoms, and guys with small penises that are tops. It’s all personal preferences, weight plays no part.
“As you know, I will chide and criticize all so-called groups, none more than heterosexual women—my own so-called group.”
—I’m the same way.
“Since these people have no strength with regard to writing and verbal skills, they resort to fantastic invention and lies about the personal details of someone without knowing them at all.”
—That has happened to me. In some conservative blogs I’m accused of being anti-military because I opposed certain aspects of the military. Fanatics can’t distinguish between anti-war Code Pink types and pro-war people like me who don’t like DADT.
“You seem to be a thoughtful, bright, and objective kind of guy. I’m sure you will find someone worthy when you least expect it!”
—Or when I get down to 180 from 220. LOL.
Thanks for the compliments, you’re very sweet.