Young gays and lesbians want to be married. And have kids.
That's what the first survey of the aspirations of gay and lesbian youth discovered.
Rockway Institute reported that more than 90 percent of the lesbians and more than 80 percent of the gay males they surveyed "expect to be partnered in a monogamous relationship after age 30."
About two-thirds of the males and just over half of the females said they thought it was very likely they'd have children.
What's extraordinary about this is just how very ordinary it is.
Ordinary for mainstream society, I mean. When we think of straight young people, we assume they want to get married and have children. There are always those who don't, of course, but they tend to be eccentric outliers.
The gay community, though, has long assumed the opposite of itself (especially gay men), and the mainstream world has assumed the same. Gays were thought to be promiscuous. Gays were artists, not parents. Gays were the outrageous life of the party, not couples who were in bed by 10 p.m.
But maybe the ordinariness of the survey results should not be such a surprise.
The survey participants were 16- to 22-year-olds in urban areas; they've grown up in a world where there are out gay members of Congress, out celebrities and rock stars, out mayors and athletes and CEOs and writers.
They've grown up with gay-straight alliances in their schools, with classmates who had out and happy gay parents, with discussions about whether saying "That's so gay" constitutes prejudice.
Gay and lesbian youth want stable marriages and children?
Of course they do.
Because they have grown up in an America where being gay is starting to seem unremarkable. Where being gay doesn't need to mean living a particular way. Where being gay doesn't have to mean putting limits on your future.
Young gays and lesbians don't want to destroy "traditional marriage" the way social conservatives fear. They want to be traditional - and one state, Massachusetts, allows them to do that. Hopefully others will follow.
These young gay people want what many heterosexuals want: a home, a family, a purposeful life, a job they can pursue with passion. They want to work without fretting they'll be fired for being gay; they want to marry their sweetheart without having to hire a lawyer to make sure they can visit each other in the hospital; they want to raise kids without worrying that their child will be beaten up for having gay parents.
It is my theory - but I don't know this to be true - that as gay and lesbian role models diversify, as we have images of lesbians who drive trucks and lesbians who are fashion models, images of gay men who style hair and images of gay men who are dedicated dads, more people will feel comfortable (and have felt comfortable) coming out.
As it becomes clear that gay people are not all one thing, more people will realize that it is not fitting into the "lifestyle" that proves you are gay - it is not the "gay accent," or the lesbian's comfortable shoes, or the love of club music, or being a Democrat - it is simply loving and being attracted sexually to people of the same gender.
There have always been gays and lesbians who wanted monogamous partners and children, but until the past couple of years, they've been hidden from mainstream society by the gays and lesbians who get more attention - the promiscuous, the party-goers, the style tastemakers.
We love that part of our community. The absolutely fabulous gays are the ones that help define us as being creative, artistic, fun. They're the ones who help us feel special. Different.
But we're also the same.
And that basic similarity is what young gays and lesbians see right away. They have access to it. They know - already! at their age! - that they can have the life they want, whatever that life is.
They can do the party circuit. They can be successful government officials, or artists, or business owners. They can be parents.
Being gay doesn't limit them, because being gay is only one part of who they are. Or perhaps it's that the definition of being gay has expanded. It no longer means only eternal singlehood and a furtive life lived in gay bars and dark city parks. If a lesbian wants to be married, she doesn't have to pretend that she's living with her "best friend." If a gay man wants to be married, he doesn't have to marry a woman and then seek sex in public restrooms.
Now she can marry a woman, and he can marry a man.
And our gay and lesbian youth are planning to do exactly that.
53 Comments for “Ordinary, Like Us”
posted by Ginia on
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posted by KamatariSeta on
“”””Ordinary for mainstream society, I mean. When we think of straight young people, we assume they want to get married and have children. There are always those who don’t, of course, but they tend to be eccentric outliers.””””
I don’t think this is nearly as unusual as it may have been in the past. While the ones who don’t get married may still be a small number, there are more and more married couples who just don’t have kids for whatever reason.
posted by James on
In one way I loved this article – anything that reduces the perceived “oddness” is welcome. However, I agree with another responder that being single is not being an “eccentric outlier.” Being single is far more common now. I was married for 22 years and have been divorced and single for 5 – guess which I prefer? I got married because I felt pressured to do so – I should have remained single. I am bi but that is not the main point – society just said that being single was eccentric. The world has moved on. Secondly, I am not sure that the gay population should necessarily follow the straight community in what it does – it might be wrong!
posted by Pepe Johnson on
I think part of this is function of population growth. More people, more visibility. GLBT people are both ordinary and different at the same time. Everyone of us is an individual regardless of orientation. I’m 29, so I’m older than the survey participants, but still young enough to feel much as they do. Thanks for this posting.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
I wonder if others took as much solace in this piece as I did because, the people and the values these gay youth (16-22) are identifying with and expressing -monogamy, settling down, putting down roots in a community beyond the gay ghetto, becoming parents- are values M-M partner and I (as well as a minority of other gay partnered adults) share.
I hope the 16-22 yr olds who have these values and vision for their future can withstand the adverse reactions of most gays in our community… where monogamity is considered “strange, unnatural” by some gsy peers, parenting is downright considered a “sell-out to the breeders” by other gays and thinking of your self or your family as more than “just gay first” is perceived as being a traitor to the true gay nature of today and days gone by.
You may be smiling, but seriously, there is a very sizable segment of our gay community who think the values these young gays are expressing are seditious to the gay lifestyle.
Diversity is a great tool for growth in the mainstream culture, I wonder if this kind of diversity can withstand the adverse tensions in our community writ large?
posted by Charles Wilson on
settling down, putting down roots in a community beyond the gay ghetto, becoming parents- are values M-M partner and I (as well as a minority of other gay partnered adults) share.
How quaint, Michigan Matt. You are a Log Cabinette with “values.” And you are superior to most gay people, including your “friends”, you you described in such glowing terms: “? most of our gay friends (not all) are not upwardly mobile, career advancing or flush with disposable cash. Most gays I know are debt ridden, living paycheck2paycheck, on their 4-5-6th real LTR and still have furnishings left in their household from the 1st LTR move-out and break up.”
But when it came to Matt Sanchez, the never-gay, anti-gay Republican gay whore,/a>, it would seem that your values when on vacation. You pronounced that, at $200-$250 an hour, your friend the ex-Marine hustler “was a bargain in any book. Woof. Damn.”
Would you care to reconcile you publicly-declared lust for a male prostitute with your model rectitude? Or does being a Republican wingnut mean never having to explain yourself? Ha!
posted by Charles Wilson on
settling down, putting down roots in a community beyond the gay ghetto, becoming parents- are values M-M partner and I (as well as a minority of other gay partnered adults) share.
How quaint, Michigan Matt. You are a Log Cabinette with “values.” And you are superior to most gay people, including your “friends”, you you described in such glowing terms: “? most of our gay friends (not all) are not upwardly mobile, career advancing or flush with disposable cash. Most gays I know are debt ridden, living paycheck2paycheck, on their 4-5-6th real LTR and still have furnishings left in their household from the 1st LTR move-out and break up.”
But when it came to Matt Sanchez, the never-gay, anti-gay Republican gay whore, it would seem that your values when on vacation. You pronounced that, at $200-$250 an hour, your friend the ex-Marine hustler “was a bargain in any book. Woof. Damn.”
Would you care to reconcile you publicly-declared lust for a male prostitute with your model rectitude? Or does being a Republican wingnut mean never having to explain yourself? Ha!
posted by Joel on
This survey might come as shock to MANY ppl. Guess when you normalize homosexuality, it becomes what it is, normal.
Im 20… and more from a rural background but still. That embryo adoption i heard not too long ago sounds very intriguing, interesting and would be the first alternative for adoption for me.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Memo to Charles Wilson: the IGNORE button is “ON’. Take your meds.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Memo to Charles Wilson: the IGNORE button is “ON’. Take your meds.
Matt, you do realize that you’re not even telling the truth about “ignoring” me, right? What do they do when you join the Log Cabinettes? Give you some sort of specialized lobotomy? Ha!
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
LOL….we have to remember that Charles Wilson thinks his “partner’s” death was a “normal” part of life for gay people.
On Sept. 22, 2004, he died of the combined effects of AIDS and chronic alcoholism.
Pretty neat trick, considering that, according to Wilson, his partner “wasn’t promiscuous”.
My partner wasn’t promiscuous. I never gave any indication that he was.
So tell us, Wilson; how did your partner, who you claim wasn’t having sex with anyone else and had never at any time been promiscuous, as in having sex with multiple partners, end up with HIV?
Oh, and by the way, I took the liberty of archiving the site where I found you admitting your partner’s death — since you seem to have a habit of deleting website pages to cover your tracks, “willysnout1”.
posted by Charles Wilson on
So tell us, Wilson; how did your partner, who you claim wasn’t having sex with anyone else and had never at any time been promiscuous, as in having sex with multiple partners, end up with HIV?
Long before we met, my partner was with someone else. That person played around on the side and contacted HIV. This was at the time when it was known as “GRID.” He was one of the first people to die from it. Tragically, my partner was infected. Fortunately, I never was.
So, North Liar Forty, I hope you’re satisfied. And let’s hope, for your sake and I suppose mine, that we never meet.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
Long before we met, my partner was with someone else.
Oh, I see; so your partner WAS promiscuous, even though you specifically claimed he wasn’t.
So, North Liar Forty, I hope you’re satisfied.
It’s a start.
And I can’t figure out what you’re upset about, since you consider your partner’s death to have been “normal” for gay people. Aren’t you proud of how he died? After all, it shows that he lived the full promiscuous, substance-abusing gay lifestyle that you champion as being required to really be “out”.
posted by Charles Wilson on
No, North Liar Forty, he was with someone else in a relationship. My partner was monogamous; unfortunately, the other person was neither monogamous nor honest. No, I’m not “proud” of how he died. It makes me sad to think about it. His life could have been so much better than it was.
posted by North Dallas Thirty on
My partner was monogamous; unfortunately, the other person was neither monogamous nor honest.
What do you mean, “unfortunately”?
After all, Wilson, you claimed that those who support monogamy and responsibility in relationships are “from 1958” and that they are out of touch with “more enlightened” people like yourself, who fully endorse and support promiscuous sex outside of relationships.
The other guy is not to blame; he simply took the advice of you and your fellow promiscuous gay libertines who were out having “fun” and insisting that other gays who weren’t following your leftist and promiscuous sexual beliefs were “closeted” and “self-hating”.
His life could have been so much better than it was.
How so? He did the substance abuse and promiscuous sex that you require of “out” gay people. He never fell into that “1958” mentality of sexual responsibility and monogamy; he fooled around with other people and drank, just like “real gays” like you support.
posted by Charles Wilson on
After all, Wilson, you claimed that those who support monogamy and responsibility in relationships are “from 1958” and that they are out of touch with “more enlightened” people like yourself, who fully endorse and support promiscuous sex outside of relationships.
North Liar Forty, I never made any such claims and you know it.
posted by Patrick on
North Dallas 30, Charles has a severe problem with social relationships and interacting with adults; that’s clear from the abundant evidence.
He’s been kicked off many blogs, discussion boards, community forums and internet groups for his angry, mean-spirited, petty personal attacks on other commenters at those sites. Just like here with Michigan-Matt, Brian, Bobby, you and others.
If I had been partnered to the guy, I think I would have been an alcoholic just to cope with his manicly self-destructive, obsessive stalking behavior patterns.
How manic is the behavior today? Probably just as bad as it’s always been. After all, this is the guy who was so vicious and petulant to other commenters that even the Democrat Underground blogmasters (a site well known for particularly drawing angry, frustrated people to its fold) had to delete his personal attacks on fellow left-wingers and ban him for a while from their site. SO even among people just like him, who value pettiness and personal attacks, Charles was too severe.
That is breath-taking!
On one of the travel blogs he’s frequented, his reputation as a pain-in-the-ass and vindictive, mean-spirited commenter has brought many commenters to ask others who engage in a caustic comment if they are willysnout… under a different name. He’s become the very definition of people who wantonly engage in petty personal attacks. That is so lame on so many levels.
North Dallas 30, you are also correct in the claim that Charles tries to eliminate websites and entries to cover his tracks as willysnout, wet willy, ww, willnsnout2, Charles Wilson, CW and more. In one gay blog’s thread on Charles?s most intense obsession, journalist Matt Sanchez, Charles adopted up to 7 different personalities just so he could debate with himself.
Charles makes James Carville look tame, polite and well-mannered by comparison.
The problem is, he keeps spoiling and fouling the threads to a point where rational inquiry is abused and he drives people away with his personal attacks.
What’s his pattern after someone finally bans him from yet another site? He goes to other sites to scream about how fascistic the old site was, then he uses the site he just demeaned for references, and completes the loop as Resident Hypocrite. It’s amazingly anti-social behavior. Charles did it again just this week here on I.G.F.
Yes, I think I would have been an alcoholic if I had had a Charles in my life. I?m sorry for his loss but that can?t be used as an excuse to continue his anti-social, pathological personal attacks.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Patrick, where do you come up with this stuff?!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Patrick, it’s not just that he’s anti-social, it’s a pathology for him.
I too am sorry for the loss of his partner to such a tragic, horrible end, but using your dead partner as an excuse to engage in petty, mean-spirited personal attacks against complete strangers who simply disagree with his radical views, seems pathological.
Pathetic, but pathologically anti-social.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
CharlesWilson asks: “Patrick, where do you come up with this stuff?!”
Can I answer, Patrick?
Patrick gets it from the records you leave behind on the net and your own sordid conduct there. What was that classic line: “hoisted on his own petard”?
How fitting for KingCharles.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Michigan Matt, does this mean you are no longer “ignoring” me? Ha! Woof. Damn.
posted by Patrick on
Charles, I hope he does. I left you a reply to the challenge of finding your “asian stir fry” remark.
Here:
http://independentgayforum.com/blog/show/31517.html#16815
posted by Charles Wilson on
Patrick, I responded to you there. Let’s see if, for once, we can avoid reposting the same thing in several threads at a time.
posted by Patrick on
Charles, that wasn’t a response… that was you avoiding the question, denying any responsibility for your uncivil conduct and spinning it all into another ranting spew-fest with foaming spittle.
Here’s what I wrote in response to the lie you make as a claim directly above.
“Patrick, where do you come up with this stuff?!”
I guess your lying is unstoppable. You were hoping that no one could catch you on your racist remarks about tropical disasters being just “asian stir fry”… and then, when it didn’t happen immediately, you got emboldened and thought you were in the clear… moving into usual attack mode.
You asked for it: on May 8th at 10:56, using the self-admitted pseudonym of willysnout, you wrote
“So why don’t you call yours typhoons and let the Asians call theirs stir fry?”
When a few commenters took exception to the racially motivated remark and challenged you for making it, you threatened them with “legal actions” if they persisted. You then got your buddies (who are blogmasters of the site) to strike the critical comments and what remains is a shell of the original diatribe.
Now, May8th was just LAST WEEK. Care to explain to all of us why you continued to deny making that comment? You’ve done it in these various IGF threads 6 times now.
Comment made on May 8th but denials from you repeatedly since?? Hmmm? even if you use some lame excuse like it was a joke (which the language and resulting interaction clearly shows it wasn’t for some), you can’t claim to have forgotten making a statement like “asian stir fry”. You have repeatedly said you didn’t say them, they were creations, imaginary notions from wingnut liars. Well?
Why lie about these things, willysnout or Charles Wilson or wet willy or CW?
BTW, at that site, commenters run a thread called “Most Outrageous Commenter of the Week” and you’ve won by a landslide. People seem to dislike you there as much as they do at Malcontent, Columbia University’s Blue & White blog, Mudville Gazette, Patterico’s Pontifications, Towleroad, DemocratUnderground, GruntDocs, brawnylads (hmmm), BoiFromTroy, Black5, One Marine’s View and dicussion boards on single malt scotch, segway, and microsoft.
The best advice to you, which you have elected to ignore, comes from the segway community discussion board FIVE YEARS AGO… 5 years ago in 2003,
“willysnout, unhook your questions and opinions from your unveiled hostility and personal attacks and cheap shots and you might get your questions answered and your opinions considered. Just a suggestion.”
And, true to form, you replied with anger and stalked the guy and the fouled the Board for months.
Now, what was that about your claim to Michigan-Matt “that I never made that (remark)” about natural disasters in the Pacific being just “asian stir fry”?
And it was only last week!!
I hope somewhere in your character you still have the capacity for bearing shame… because your conduct is shameful, even if you hide behind the smug exterior of someone on a mission of truth.
posted by MIchigan-Matt on
Patrick, thanks for posting this information and for calling to our collective attention the credibility of someone who had called me a liar at least 1,000x (kidding, no CharlesWilson, don’t rush to all the threads now to count and report the real number of times you’ve used “liar” this week… but I bet it’s close to 1,000).
I noticed he didn’t dispute the racist bigoted comment about tropical disasters should be called “asian stir fry”… to think that some of the recent “lesser tsunami” in Indonesia have claimed 240,000+ lives the racism in that statement is appalling.
Those are a lot of sites to get banned, barred and blocked.
I can also understand why someone would plead, desperately, for you not to share that information as in
“Let’s see if, for once, we can avoid reposting the same thing in several threads at a time.”
Back on topic, I wonder if the age group surveyed indicates just youthful optimism or a cultural shift within our community? I ask because one of the first ploys used by our resident baiter (wink, but ignoring) was typical gayLeft style… that was to smear anyone who takes an opposing viewpoint from the proper gayLeft view with an attack on your morals?
It’s done so often by the gayLeft it makes talk of them being a monolith almost seem self-fulfilling. Like a liberal biased MSM press… which the liberal MSM press is quick to discount. So too with the gayLeft.
Just wondering Patrick. Thanks.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Poor Michigan Matt. He just can’t ignore me. Woof. Damn. Ha!
posted by Patrick on
Michigan-Matt, I too gathered that KingCharles likes to smear people by claiming they lie, when his entire presence on the internet is one big huge lie and it’s been proven here again and again… by you, by me, by North Dallas 30, by other commenters… a life of lies makes for a shallow grave.
KingCharles, don’t pity MM with your insincere fakery. He has a life. He has a family of two beautiful boys. He has a monogamous, honest hubbie of 15 years. He has a fab home in a wealthy, diverse, culturally advanced city. He has decency and honor and leads a constructive life of service to gay parents in his community. He has success in business. He has all the boy toys materialistic gays dream of owning… if we only had enough disposable income.
You? You have a basement apartment in Mom’s home, a series of blogs no one reads, a bitter memory of a partner who played around and suffered through the abuse of alcohol because… because… I wonder, because of you and your personality and need to be center stage ego supreme?
Maybe he, too, found it a burden as many of us here do… and dozens of other blogs where you are roundly hated and scorned.
Gotta hurt to be looking at a shallow grave filled with nothing but all those “badges” you claim you’ve won in your personal war against anyone who disagrees with you.
Gotta hurt.
posted by Patrick on
By the way, KingCharles, I know that lots of your bitterness toward people here stems from your disease and the heart ache your partner brought to the relationship, but really, it’s a shame for you to continue to destroy decent people having honest discussions by fouling, spoiling and ruining things for all.
It’s a shame that racists like you can’t move out of the darkness and into the light of community.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Patrick and Michigan Matt, anyone who looks in here knows what your tactics are: Lie, lie again, change the subject, lie some more, launch vicious personal attacks.
If Michigan Matt has a couple of kids by another man and is a good parent to them, great. His “life of service” to gay parents is more dubious, given the views he has expressed: “Most gays I know are debt ridden, living paycheck2paycheck, on their 4-5-6th real LTR and still have furnishings left in their household from the 1st LTR move-out and break up.”
As for his material success, well, all I can say is that it takes a Log Cabinette to boast about the fab home, toys, and disposable income. Am I supposed to be impressed?
Oh, and I’m not a racist, bitter, etc. Those are wingnut lies, from wingnut liars. And Matt, it’s nice to be off of your ignore list. I knew you couldn’t quit me, cowboy. Woof. Damn. Ha!
posted by MIchigan-Matt on
Wow, Patrick, CharlesWilson the racist loves to project!
He’s only one who has been consistently proven to be a liar… like the “I didn’t say typhoons were asian stir fry” and it’s proven he did just a few days earlier and he tries to spin away from being caught redhanded, flatfooted, big jaw agape and drooling like St Bernard.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He lied about harassing a poor Mom with a daugther suffering in the clutches of MS.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He lied about going onto military blogs and harassing mourning parents and spouses of killed and injured soldiers.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He lied about the unfortunate and tragic events of his partner’s death while trying to divert from his lies by playing the pity card once he was caught in more lies.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He distorts and lies about what is said by others on other blogs, stalks people onto other websites and flames them and then threatens legal action if yet another blogmaster bans, bars or blocks him.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
I think his record speaks for itself, Patrick.
You were right, he has no shame.
As you have abundantly pointed out in many threads and on other blogs, CharlesWilson has made a career out of flaming people, disrupting discussion groups and deliberating berating people with harsh, personal attacks until he is once again kicked from the site.
And he now is advising the world that HE’S the target of unfair personal attacks… good God, the man has no shame, no character, no reserve.
Can we let “KingCharles” have the last word now and be done with him?
posted by Charles Wilson on
Poor Michigan Matt! Just can’t quit me.
Anyway, I didn’t “lie” about the woman on the MS site. Didn’t “lie” about posting on wingnut milblogs and being banned by cowards who can’t stand an opposition. Didn’t “lie” about my partner and his death.
Matt, you’re a good Republican, that’s for sure. Problem is, the country sees through your kind now.
posted by Attmay on
No racist would ever say “Yeah, I’m a racist.”
posted by Charles Wilson on
I think I finally foundthe explanation for Michigan Matt: “My uncle served 57 yrs in Alcatraz for multiple prison breaks, robbery, pistol whipping and killing a guard, and countless crimes in the 9 adult yrs he wasn’t in prison.”
Ha!
posted by Patrick on
And now KingCharles rightly earns the crown of “Village Idiot” and “Town Troll” with that last post.
Charles, you are one sick screwed up troll.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Well, Patrick, one of the biggest differences between me and Michigan-Matt, North Liar Forty, and you is that I post factual material here. You simply make it up as you go along. Michigan-Matt’s uncle was a criminal who did hard time at Alcatraz. At least that’s what he wrote.
Now, what’s so “trollish” about quoting Michigan-Matt’s own words? Here’s another one: When someone complained about a re-write of security clearance rules that would make it easier to exclude homosexuals, Michigan Matt accuses him of being a pervert.
Michigan-Matt loves to throw the accusations, and so do you. The least you could do is make them true. Ha!
posted by Patrick on
KingCharles, look… everyone who reads or comments more than once in this site knows you have a stalker/sicko obsession with both Michigan-Matt and others.
Could you please refrain from these ancillary rants and try to keep at least one thread on-topic?
You have to be the MOST annoying pain in the ass village idiots anyone could ever find. But, I guess, you’ve been told that more than a few times in the past.
Grow up you little spoiled brat; it’s not always ALL about you. We don’t care what you’re obsessive stalker personality thinks about MM… stay on the topic or get on your meds.
posted by Patrick on
And now KingCharles rightly earns the crown of “Village Idiot” and “Town Troll” with that last post.
Charles, you are one sick screwed up troll.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Patrick, do you have anything factual to offer here, or have I finally reduced you to your quivering id? Waaah! Waaah! Ha!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Patrick, I’m sorry you’ve had to get down in the gutter with Charles Wilson, our resident troll, indisputably proven liar on the grandest scale, racist and liar about his racism toward asians, and -as you note- village idiot.
I didn’t read any quivering in your notes, but I do see that Charles Wilson is busy stalking yet another target on the blogsphere on another blog… thanks for the assist, again.
Wet willy is just a creepy, trollish scarey bitter man.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Attmay offers, “No racist would ever say “Yeah, I’m a racist.”
Of course not, Attmay. Nor would Charles Wilson admit to his lying and deception.
He hasn’t the character nor the capacity for engaging truth.
(Careful, Attmay, wet willy is certain anyone who opposes him is a sockpuppet of Patrick’s or mine or NDXX’s)
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Wow, Patrick, CharlesWilson the racist loves to project!
He’s only one who has been consistently proven to be a liar… like the “I didn’t say typhoons were asian stir fry” and it’s proven he did just a few days earlier and he tries to spin away from being caught redhanded, flatfooted, big jaw agape and drooling like St Bernard.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He lied about harassing a poor Mom with a daugther suffering in the clutches of MS.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He lied about going onto military blogs and harassing mourning parents and spouses of killed and injured soldiers.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He lied about the unfortunate and tragic events of his partner’s death while trying to divert from his lies by playing the pity card once he was caught in more lies.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
He distorts and lies about what is said by others on other blogs, stalks people onto other websites and flames them and then threatens legal action if yet another blogmaster bans, bars or blocks him.
But everyone else is a liar, right.
I think his record speaks for itself, Patrick.
You were right, he has no shame.
As you have abundantly pointed out in many threads and on other blogs, CharlesWilson has made a career out of flaming people, disrupting discussion groups and deliberating berating people with harsh, personal attacks until he is once again kicked from the site.
And he now is advising the world that HE’S the target of unfair personal attacks… good God, the man has no shame, no character, no reserve.
Can we let “KingCharles” have the last word now and be done with him?
posted by Charles Wilson on
Poor Matt/Patrick, who have appeared in tandem on various websites for the past two years. But maybe Patrick isn’t Matt’s sockpuppet. Maybe he’s his squire. Ha!
Matt, not “everyone” is a liar. You are. Patrick is. North Liar Forty is. Matt Sanchez is. Have you told your gay “friends” what you really think of them yet? Are they as dazzled by your superiority and your nice house as your squire is? Ha!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
I think Charles Wilson’s time is finally winding down as more people from IGF take a stand and say, “Enough”.
Did you see this latest one, Charles?
“Okay, I’ll bite. Priya Lynn, Charles Wilson’s behavior on this board has been atrocious.”
http://independentgayforum.com/blog/show/31519.html#16932
Oh wait, this will just be another sockpuppet of Michigan-Matt’s, right?
How many sites shall we reference where the blogmasters note you’ve been banned for using puppet identities, Charles? LOL.
Talk about wishing his projections on others! Wet willy has no shame.
I think you might want to reconsider your stalking, belittling, petty personal attacks… people are calling you for what you are, Charles.
posted by Charles Wilson on
“More people?” Matt, the “more people” is your sockpuppet/squire, Patrick. As an aside, may I suggest that, while it does fit the A-Gay, Log Cabinette, Republican mold to a “T” it’s unseemly to boast about your financial success. Moreover, my experience tell me that those who boast most on that score tend to have the least to boast about. Ha!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
No, dear Charles, the only thing YOUR experience should tell anyone is that lying is your byword, stalking is your profession and hate resides in your ample, bitter breast.
That is ALL experience should tell anyone, sir, as far as you can be tossed with the day’s trash.
What, do I detect some concern, some caution from you, Charles the racist, now that people are coming out and condemning your conduct here?
Could it be, once again, that your “gig is up”?
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Charles, you may have missed the condemnation you’re receiving in other threads here… yes, the gig is finally up for you. Decent people are condemning your conduct as… let’s get that main word accurate: “atrocious”.
From Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: atro
posted by Charles Wilson on
Matt, be careful or your head will explode and stain your beautiful new couch. Ha!
posted by Charles Wilson on
Do you realize just how foolish you look? You haven’t written a single true word in these threads, Matt. Nothing at all. You’ve spewed lie after lie, and now you’re reduced to quoting from a dictionary and threatening to publish messages that I never sent.
So, is this what 30 years of residence inside the Log Cabin does? Holy cow! By the way, if you’re really a Catholic, I’d say you’ve got some heavy beggin’ to do for all the crap you’ve spewed here. But hey, Matt, the rules are for everyone else, aren’t they. After all, you’re an A-Gay. Nothing can touch you, right? Ha!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Charles, I think your comprehension in reading is failing you again -as is your memory. Just like the other day when you didn’t recall saying that the tropical disasters in Burma were just a little “asian stir fry”… even though you had said that just 4 days prior. You were counting on being able to hide that racist bigoted comment and you weren’t able to do it in time to avoid detection.
Who’s got the long, long track record of lying around here?
You, Charles Wilson. And readers here are calling you out on it left and right.
And you are PURE projection in the charge that I am “threatening” you. Really?
I think the last time we debated you challenged a blogmaster with legal action if he didn’t do exactly what you wanted.
Remember this exchange, Charles Wilson?
http://malcontent.biz/blog/?p=1489#comment-22741
(No editing from me except for deleting the profanities), it is from that site’s blogmaster -who’s normally a level headed, decent guy:
“Charles, first off, f**k you. What a narcissist you are. You think I really care enough about you to know whether your name is a pseudonym or not? You don?t mean anything to me. So if nobody knows who you are, then it?s impossible for you to be slandered or libeled. You?re on record saying so.
You made a veiled threat of a lawsuit whether you admit it or not. ?Republication? is a legal term. But what a quandary you put me in: You still dangle the possibility of a lawsuit over my head, yet claim actions I would take to prevent that somehow compromise my ?principles.? You truly are a special brand of retard.
As long as you remain pseudonymous, you can either deal with it, or you can stop whining about my open-comments policy and making threats, you little b**ch. I don?t know of ANY major leftist sites with as ?liberal? a comments policy as mine.
Your particular version of trolldom is not unlike barging into someone?s home, taking a piss on the homeowner, and then crying ?assault? when the homeowner warns you that he is apt to eject you if you, ya? know, continue pissing on him. I don?t know what the source of the dementia is, but it sure sounds like dementia all the same.
So the choice is yours. You?re welcome here, unless you persist in threatening me.”
The blgomaster YOU THREATENED then went on with some friendly advice for you, which you ignored… he said
“By the way, Charles, word of fair warning: Words like ?liar? that you use with such casual abandon are much more actionable on their face than anything you?ve taken offense to here.”
And finally, when you threatened him yet again, he had enough and said:
“Charlie Wilson is like sh*t on the bottom of your shoe, even when you wipe it off, the smell still remains. If you step in Wilson by responding to his excrement, you end up stinking up the website.
Wilson is a sad, lonely homosexual with no ?principles? beside self-righteously denouncing heretics and hoping someone will listen. Wilson says he does not suffer from HIV dementia, but somehow the thought that Wilson is not suffering from a major disease makes him all the more pathetic.”
Finally, you threaten others with legal action in other threads and the blogmaster declares:
“It was probably just a matter of time, but I have banned ?Charles Wilson.? The dude threatens me if I don?t censor other people?s speech that he considers actionable, yet he persists in using potentially actionable speech himself. (NDT, to his credit, has never once tried to hold me accountable for all the times Charles has called him a ?liar,? an actionable term on its face.) You can be as far left (or as far right) as you want to on here. But once you become a poisonous malignancy, then you?ve worn out my patience.”
But not before one of the site’s readers comment by saying:
“Charles, before writing here again it might help you blunt your ?creepy fag? image if you made certain ALL your medications reach the needed therapeutic dosage levels first. Before writing again. It?ll help.
Lying is an art when practiced by adept politicians; when you do it, it?s just pathetic. Legal threats you tried to make, check. Racist statements you did make, check. Obsessive behavior you?ve shown, check. Unfounded lies are your forte, check. Creepy fag is your style, check.
You are one creepy, obsessed, stalking fag. You?re the pathetic psycho -that?s the only thing that?s clear.”
posted by Michigan-Matt on
I kind of like that last line…
“Charles, before writing here again it might help you blunt your ?creepy fag? image if you made certain ALL your medications reach the needed therapeutic dosage levels first. Before writing again. It?ll help.
Lying is an art when practiced by adept politicians; when you do it, it?s just pathetic. Legal threats you tried to make, check. Racist statements you did make, check. Obsessive behavior you?ve shown, check. Unfounded lies are your forte, check. Creepy fag is your style, check.
You are one creepy, obsessed, stalking fag. You?re the pathetic psycho -that?s the only thing that?s clear.”
Now, if you’re thinking that sounds like a lot of people around here… expressing very similar sentiments, you’d be absolutely 1000% correct, Charles Wilson!
And you should also be worried that people are stepping forward to confront your special penchant for evil.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Just like the other day when you didn’t recall saying that the tropical disasters in Burma were just a little “asian stir fry”… even though you had said that just 4 days prior.
Stop lying, Matt. I never said that. You know, given that you’re rich, maybe you should consider having that brain surgery reversed so you can tell the truth about anything. Ha!
And you are PURE projection in the charge that I am “threatening” you.
I didn’t write that you are threatening me. I wrote that you are threatening to publish e-mails and IMs. That’s true, that you’re threatening this. Which is funny, because I’ve never IM’d or e-mailed you. Not that this would ever stop you from doing what you do best: just making it up.
You are one creepy, obsessed, stalking fag.
Fascinating. Michigan Matt, I’ve been arguing, among other things, that you and your friends — Matt Sanchez, your sockpuppet/squire Patrick, North Liar Forty, et. al. — are self-hating homosexuals, circa 1958, right out of central casting. And their worst insult? “FAG”
You’re on record calling gay people (other than yourself, natch) a bunch of deadbeats. And perverts. And when someone complains about the attempted murder of four gay people in a gay bar, you belittle the complaint, saying, put away the victim/pity card. And youmocked gay marriage as an idea that comes “from the far radical Left.”
When you research what I’ve written on the Internet, that’s okay because anything that a lying, rich, Log Cabinette, A-Gay who thinks he’s better than everyone else is, well, okay. If if I research your words, then the self-hating, anti-gay, never-gay, Log Cabinette pulls out the big guns and calls me a “stalker” and a “fag.”
Not to mention the utterly outrageous things you’ve written about my late partner and his death.
Michigan Matt, I’ve been called a fag before. If you really think being called a fag by a desperate, lying, Republican, self-hating, “superior” Log Cabinette closet case is going to make me melt, I think you continue to underestimate my tenacity.
Matt, you need some therapy. The two of you should work on your acceptance of your homosexuality. You should also work on your anger. And you should discuss your ethics, or lack thereof. You claim to be a good Catholic, so on the ethical front maybe you can find a priest to give you some pointers. Or, come to think of it, maybe not. Ha!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Charles, I couldn’t agree less with anything you’ve written to date that this ranting above.
This thread was about how it appears the attitudes of gay youth are remarkably different from older gays like you.
You’ve used the thread, even after clear warnings from the IGF Editors to you, noted in another thread comment that you authored, to stop the personal attacks.
Do you?
Nope. Like Hillary Clinton, Ron Paul and the Energizer Bunny, you get right on going your sweet way.
It’s a shame because I thought those warnings attached to one of your comments would temper your conduct.
posted by Richard on
Part of the problem is that some people confuse these mainstream, nuclear-family-type values with one political party or the other.
The reality is that I have known many gay Republicans who were total sluts and whores and gay Democrats who were in committed long term relationships and vice versa.
Seeking out a life-long, serious and healthy commitment with another human being — man or woman — is not liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican or Independent.
Its just that many people really hate being alone, and want someone to help them go through the ups and downs of their personal, professional, socioeconomic life.