I'm sometimes criticized by fellow gay-rights advocates for being too accommodating towards our opponents. Why dignify gay-rights opponents with a response?
The simple answer is that, like it or not, homosexuality is an issue on which many thoughtful and decent people disagree. Ignoring this disagreement won't make it go away, so instead I strive for productive dialogue.
Against that background, I was especially disappointed when Aquinas College in Grand Rapids revoked my invitation to speak there on April 3rd, calling me on the morning of the event to "postpone" it, and then canceling it one week later. In announcing his decision, Aquinas President C. Edward Balog cited concerns about a policy gap regarding speakers who are critical of Catholic teaching. Local Bishop Walter Hurley was apparently among those encouraging Balog to cancel the event.
In my sixteen years of speaking on gay rights, only once before have I had an event canceled-in Louisiana, a week following Hurricane Katrina. I have presented at religious institutions, including several Catholic colleges. Indeed, I spoke at St. Ambrose College (Davenport, IA) exactly a week before my scheduled Aquinas lecture. These have all been positive events.
My visit to Aquinas was contracted months in advance, and advertising went on for some time prior to the event. Those who invited me knew my position. I aim to promote respect for gay and lesbian persons by critically examining common arguments against same-sex affection. I am not (any longer) a Catholic, and I oppose key aspects of the Church's teaching. I believe that the case against homosexuality is unsound. That said, I have no interest in distorting Catholic teaching. On the contrary, the more clearly a position is set out, the more rigorously we can discuss it.
So when the organizers asked me how I would feel about having an official Catholic response to my talk, I welcomed the suggestion enthusiastically. This is not because I believe that every campus event needs to present "both sides." For one thing, the idea of "both sides" misleadingly suggests that there are two and only two sides to any issue, equally balanced along a clear and non-arbitrary middle ground. In reality, social issues admit of countless possible positions-some reasonable, some less so, and some beyond the pale. It would be both practically impossible and pedagogically undesirable for every event to include every possible perspective. As one critic of my invitation put it, "What's next? Should we invite the KKK to present their views, too?"
Of course we shouldn't. But the KKK analogy fails, and the reason for its failure is instructive. The reason is the same point I make to my critics in the choir: unlike segregation, homosexuality is an issue on which many thoughtful and decent people still disagree. Ignoring this disagreement won't make it go away, so instead let's strive for productive dialogue.
In short, I welcomed the inclusion of a Catholic response because it was entirely consistent with my aims as an educator. It would manifest Aquinas's identity not just as a CATHOLIC College, but as a Catholic COLLEGE-a place where serious discussion of controversial issues could take place. It was a win-win-win proposal: good for me, good for the administration, and (most important) good for the Aquinas students, who presumably attend college in part to learn about diverse perspectives and how to evaluate them. Shutting down the event robbed us all of a valuable teaching moment.
After the cancellation, President Balog was quoted in the Grand Rapids Press as stating, "We want to explore the issue from an academic perspective, not from the perspective of an antagonistic attack to core Catholic values."
This is a gross mischaracterization of my approach, as anyone with even a passing knowledge of my scholarly research or my public advocacy would recognize. It pains me to see such distortion coming from a Catholic college president.
It pains me as an academic, but it also pains me as a former Catholic. I sometimes joke that I'm not a fallen Catholic, because I didn't fall-I leapt. But the truth is that I still have deep affection and respect for the Catholic faith. Affection, because of relationships with countless priests, nuns, and lay theologians who nurtured me in lasting ways. Respect, because of the Church's intellectual and moral tradition, which takes "big questions" seriously and strives to integrate faith and reason.
That affection and respect are sorely tested today.
38 Comments for “Class Dismissed”
posted by Michigan-Matt on
John, good luck to you on your upcoming visit and lecture in GR to the Aquinas College students who will be in your audience tomorrow (Wed) night.
As a current Catholic and moderate, I too think the value of a free, open exchange on great societal issues is fundamental at ANY college campus… liberal or conservative. Aquinas College is correctly well known for being a tolerant, open, diverse community… Dr Balog clearly didn’t take the time to investigate your background and might have even been misquoted in the paper.
Or, he might have been poorly informed and misspoke… kind of like Hillary ducking under the sniper fire while the US Army dropped her and Chelsea off on a runway in Bosnia.
In any event, you’ll have the opportunity to talk and lecture those very students tomorrow night. I hope you spend less time publicly “licking your wounds” and more time fairly addressing the issue at hand. Leave the Catholic Church bashing at the door.
By the way, did you think to invite any leading scholar from either Aquinas or Calvin to provide counterpoint to your lecture tomorrow?
Just wondering.
posted by bls on
“Catholic Church bashing”? Because he disagrees with some aspects Catholic doctrine?
Um, no. The two things are not equivalent.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
bls, nor did I say that… I was anticipating any of John’s impromptu, off-the-cuff remarks that may attend his lecture tomorrow night. You’re right: disagreeing with Church doctrine or dogma or policies isn’t the same as CC bashing… I greatly disagree with the former and current Popes about being gay and the expectation of celibacy on my part… and stem cell research… and the death penalty… and the protections afforded known pedophiles in the clergy… and the concentration of the Church’s wealth… and the non-democratic nature of priest assignments… and so forth.
Didn’t say disagreements are Catholic Church bashing; thanks for letting me clarify your mistaken impression.
posted by David Skidmore on
Catholic Church bashing indeed! It’s amazing how an organisation like the Catholic Church will revel in victimhood whenever its ideas are challenged or when someone points out how they’ve played a major role in anti-gay violence, molesting children, anti-semitism etc. The KKK analogy certainly fails due to the KKK’s history of anti-gay violence, anti-semitism etc (you get the point). Maybe I’m just KKK bashing here.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
David, I’ll give you credit… when presented with a clear explanation, you still persist in latching onto the flag of “CC bashing” -I think the analogy you wanted to posit is not the KKK one, it’s more like how the GayLeft and anti-religionists sometimes practice rabid, foaming intolerance in the apparent face of disagreement… for the GayLeft toward any moderate or conservative gay brethern or any Bush supporter; for the anti-religionists in the face of socially adjusted gays going to Church.
Victim, thy name is not the Catholic Church. David, you had your VictimHoodCrad freshly minted and stamped at the GayLeft altar.
posted by David Skidmore on
I’m not clear about the point Michigan-Matt is making. He does say:
“GayLeft and anti-religionists sometimes practice rabid, foaming intolerance in the apparent face of disagreement..”
It would be interesting to know how many Catholics have been bashed or murdered by gay leftists, how many Catholics have been denied the right to marry by gay leftists and how many Catholics have been made criminals in law thanks to gay leftists. Is there any research available?
I’m also not sure where the “GayLeftAltar” actually is. I am sure that I am proudly gay and proudly atheist and if that upsets people, I can’t help if they choose to be victims.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
David, if you take the time to read the comments here you WOULD understand and comprehend the point… my advice to John on his lecture up in GR was to stop the recent “licking of his wounds” he suffered at the hands of evil Catholic administrators, don’t go into the Catholic Church bashing diatribes that seem to afflict even the most “independent” and “faithful” GayLefties here… stick to the lecture and forego the wound licking. Don’t bash the administration. Move on. (and no dot org either)
I wrote that before your comment. It was in response to the exact same point that bls was making about my advice to John.
But you chose, like all good GayLefties, to target the bashing advice. In the Midwest, we call that going after the easy pickings.
How about the more appropos question?
Is John, that bastion of progressive intellectual exercises, going to have a reasonable counterpoint of a scholar to balance his own lecture?
Probably not. It sort goes to the sincerity of his outrage at being jerked by the Aquinas College leadership… he has the perfect chance to demonstrate to his faulters and detractors why a healthy debate is important in the marketplace of ideas.
Hope that clears it up.
On your point, about how the GayLeft has been treated ever so poorly by religion or specifically by Catholics, I offered to you that all you need do is look to other threads here and you’ll see lots of examples of religion-bashing bigots abounding. If that isn’t enough, head over to some of the more GayLeft sites I mentioned in the BAS-Christian music show thread… it’s a good education to learn how fervently and ferociously the GayLeft hammers people of faith, religion and -some bloggers here- the Catholic Church.
It’s silly for you to argue that the GayLeft animus toward religion doesn’t exist. Almost as silly as those who contend the GayLeft really likes the military. It just ain’t so and spinning it 720 degrees won’t make it so in a lifetime.
posted by James Nimmo on
Loving the Hater While Hating the Hate
(OKLAHOMA CITY) I found a link recently to a blog (www.bilerico.com) that contains a comment (http://tinyurl.com/4qdbph) written in reaction to reading the main story about the Oklahoma City chapter of PFLAG and their recording of Rep Sally Kern (http://tinyurl.com/2zbpgn) that catches Kern in her spider web of hubris and cant.
Like the author, I too, am very disappointed with the approach of “loving the hater while hating the hate.”
Of course, I respect our supporters who use their close relationship with Jesus to try and gain support for LGBT citizens and other minorities who are used for verbal target practice in the war for suppression of civil rights.
I’m delighted the Oklahoma City PFLAG chapter was able to document the duplicity of Sally Kern and record with her permission the lies she later reported as irresponsibility on the part of PFLAG. This single incident should show you the arrogance and madness that is being passed off as legislative Republican leadership. Not one elected official in Oklahoma from either major party has come strongly to the defense and support of the LGBT taxpayers living in Oklahoma.
Had Kern used race, skin color, or ethnic origin as her subject I bet the rent she would be renewing her teaching certificate today and looking for a school that would hire her.
The First Amendment guarantees both sides the freedom to practice their respective religious viewpoints and the market place in which to talk about them.
However, this same First Amendment does NOT give either side permission to encode their religious viewpoints into CIVIL law. I feel this is where we miss the boat in establishing our birthright to equal treatment under judicial law, and not the ten laws of Deuteronomy.
There will always be a bible verse to trump the opposing bible verse resulting in a version of ping-pong skirmishes with Jesus as the referee.
The writer gives some specific examples of public, peaceful protest that we can engage in to show that LGBTs are neither the doormats nor the monsters our enemies make us to be.
It’s odd that our suppressors are either afraid to be in the same room with us, fearing for their own bodily integrity, keeping their knees close together; or they dismiss us as dippy airheads, frivolous and irresponsible. How can we be both at the same time?
Their response shows more about the fiction in their minds then about the truth of our lives.
Until we get out of the religious justification business the more we’ll be dragged into its historical quagmire. Look at the present wars being fought around the world and you’ll see religious intolerance at the root.
Our LGBT equality will have to be established in the legislatures and the courthouses in all fifty states without religious prejudice tipping the scales of justice.
posted by Charles Wilson on
As a current Catholic and moderate
Here’s how “moderate” Michigan Matt is:
Michigan Matt leads wingnut boycott of gay website in Tampa.
Garden variety wingnut Clinton hatred at far right-wing “Gay Patriot” site.
Michigan Matt throws the terrorist card at website he doesn’t like.
Michigan Matt rants against liberals and says (his quotation marks) “gay marriage” comes from the far radical Left.
Someone decries attempted murder of four people in a gay bar. Michigan Matt says: put away the victim/pity card.
posted by queer on
catholic colleges seem to be in the business of hiding information
http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com
posted by Brian on
CW, you know that would verify or certify M-M’s claim you act like an unhinged obsessive stalker.
I read “The Gay Patriot” and “Boy From Troy” and I recall M-M being the only one fighting anti-immigration conservatives at one blog, calling & calling & calling for political moderation to reassert itself in the Republican Party at another, getting yelled at for being a traitor and a Republican In Name Only, and on one of your linkages, M-M is calling on gays to seek justice in the face of hate crimes and not to be just outraged against the crimes. I wish you would be more tolerant and less abrasive toward many here. Firm, vigorous debate is wonderful but your actions are strangely stalkerish. M-M is right about you being obsessed.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Brian I’ve never called ChasWilson “unhinged”.
Thank you for sticking up for me when the bully (or obsessed stalker) attacks other students on the playground.
The simplest truth is that ChasWilson dislikes people expressing opinions contrary to his own version of reality.
I am a moderate, pro-military, GOP, gay parent with a terrific partner in a stable, nuturing relationship, co-father of a growing family, a practicing Catholic, a home-owner and an athlete who’s found greater acceptance in society than ChasWilson THINKS gays are entitled to… and that’s his rub, his irritation, his petty vindictiveness toward me and the reason he’s a stalker who gets tossed off other blogs. Thank you for calling the bully out.
Back on topic…
JamesNimmo declares: “Our LGBT equality will have to be established in the legislatures and the courthouses in all fifty states without religious prejudice tipping the scales of justice.”
Not really, James. We’ve been trying that approach now for about 15 years and it’s gotten us less wins and far more losses -losses like in Michigan where it will take a generation to reverse the political miscalculations of the gayLeft community.
Nationally, in just one election cycle, eleven politically different and culturally diverse states -eleven- chose to adopt constitutional amendments to ban gay marriages and, in the majority, directly or indirectly ban civil unions too boot. Eleven… like the HRC symbol turned on its side.
It’s why your approach of legislating or litigating this issue is one which has led to far more declines for us, not successes.
We need a different approach on the issue of gay civil rights. Many here have suggested securing civil unions and extending marital privileges before pushing on the gay marriage button again. Voters are more inclined to support us on those points than overturn or broaden marriage to include same-sex couples.
Your approach hasn’t secured us the “rights” we need for true inclusion. That inclusion will only come from securing voter and general populaiton support for our agenda of civil rights… and even then, we have folks in our community who think inclusion is “selling out” to the “breeders”.
posted by Charles Wilson on
I wish you would be more tolerant and less abrasive toward many here. Firm, vigorous debate is wonderful but your actions are strangely stalkerish. M-M is right about you being obsessed.
I understand that Log Cabinettes will stick together when one of them is threatened by facts. Michigan-Matt’s words speak for themselves. Of course, you’d have to read what he writes, and we know that the Republican Party has something of a problem with that lately.
posted by Charles Wilson on
CW, you know that would verify or certify M-M’s claim you act like an unhinged obsessive stalker.
I read “The Gay Patriot” and “Boy From Troy” and I recall M-M being
So, if someone cites a lying Cabinettes words critically, he’s a “stalker.” Cites them approvingly, and everything’s okay in wingnut-land. Is that about the size of it?
I am a moderate, pro-military, GOP, gay parent with a terrific partner in a stable, nuturing relationship, co-father of a growing family, a practicing Catholic, a home-owner and an athlete who’s found greater acceptance in society than ChasWilson THINKS gays are entitled to
Since you’ve lied about being “moderate,” I think we can justifiably be skeptical of your claim to be “pro-military” as well. Glad you’ve got a partner; too bad that you don’t want to marry your partner, and that you have expressed derision toward those who do.
As for the practicing Catholicism, I beg to differ. Your church calls you “objectively disordered,” so if you and the nurturing partner are having sex then you’re not a practicing Catholic by the rules of your own church. Which you support, which means that you’re conflicted, self-hating, or both.
I’d like to see gay people accepted for who they are, rather than being forced to turn themselves in deceivers by closeted, lying Republican “moderates” like you.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
I take it back. Brian is right: ChasWilson is unhinged. Someone get the net… quick.
posted by Charles Wilson on
In addition to lying about being a “moderate,” etc., Michigan-Matt has commented more than once about my postings on other sites. Naturally, he doesn’t call himself a stalker, because as a “moderate” Log Cabinette, Michigan Matt applies his rules to everyone other than himself. ‘Tis the way of zealots.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
“I take it back. Brian is right: ChasWilson is unhinged. Someone get the net… quick.”
REAL quick, please!
posted by Matt Sanchez on
Michigan-Matt: Woof! Damn! Back at ya! For you, it’ll be 50 bucks plus all I can eat at Zabar’s.
posted by RIchard on
Well, boys it is clear that their is some overt, sexual tension going on between MM and CW…Either that or they are both acting like twats.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Wrong couple, Richard. The “sexual tension” is between Michigan Matt and Matt Sanchez. Woof! Damn!
posted by Richard J. Rosendall on
John,
I agree with you completely. It is sad that President Balog would add insult to injury the way he did, but it says so much more about him and those for whom he acted than it does about you.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Richard offers: “Well, boys it is clear that their is some overt, sexual tension going on between MM and CW…”
Hey Richard, this isn’t gay.com or manhunt and the purpose here isn’t trolling for ONS no matter how badly ChasWilson needs or wants it. I’m happily partnered and his Mom won’t let ChasWilson out of the basement. But you are right… ChasWilson is obsessed -that’s a different animal all-together, although I can see why, in your book, you’d mistake that for “interest”. LOL.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Returning to the thread’s topic, if that’s ok.
It looks like John had a good reception at the follow-up event.
The event was organized by Aquinas College student Rebecca Kirk… the story has pictures and everything!
http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/04/gay_rights_activist_john_corvi.html
posted by Charles Wilson on
Michigan-Matt, I’m not the one who took a look at Matt Sanchez, Republican porn star and male prostitute, and called “a bargain in any book. Woof. Damn.” What’s the matter, MM? Have you fallen out of love? And so soon!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ChasWilson, the juvenile nature of your jesting taunts has long passed the annoyance stage. Get some help… or we’ll get a net and cage you in your Mom’s basement.
In the meantime, learn about your addictive, obsessive tendencies by reading the following:
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Abuse/Site/Transcripts/stalking_and_obsessive_love.htm
The money quote from the psychotherapist is: “I often say that a stalker acts like a child. He’d rather have your love, but he’ll take your anger if there’s no alternative. The worst thing is to be ignored. But often, that’s the best tactic and hope that he will get bored and go away.”
Sounds good to me, Chas. I’m pressing the IGNORE button. Thanks for proving creepy can, indeed, go beyond way beyond simple annoyance.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Poor Michigan-Matt. First he calls himself a “moderate.” I disprove that. Then he calls me a stalker for having read what he wrote. I show that he’s done the same thing. Now, having been thoroughly whipped, he kicks ‘n screams ‘n stamps his little feet and pressed his “ignorance” button.
Quite the university-educated liar you are, Matt. In any case, I advise you not to post lies on the Internet, because Google collects everything. Ha!
posted by Charles Wilson on
I forgot to mention the other one. Matt also told the lie that I was somehow “in love” with his pal, Matt Sanchez. Turns out that it was Michigan Matt who had the hots for him.
And along with his other buddy, North Liar Forty, Matt called me “obsessive” about Mr. Sanchez, the ex-gay, never-gay Republican closet case male prostitute who so well symbolizes everything about the Log Cabinettes. Turned out that North Liar Forty has posted at least six times as many messages about Matt Sanchez on the Internet as I have.
Seems to me that you use a cross to scare a vampire, and a fact to scare a Republican. Ha!
posted by Brian on
Question.
What do CharlesWilson and a 3 year old brat acting up in his Mother’s grocery cart in the speedy check lane share in common?
Answer.
Childishness ran amuck. A practice of crying louder when Mother won’t listen and then crying louder to drown out everyone’s shout of “Shut-up”. Boorish and bratty behavior on maximum.
It’s guys like Charles Wilson that prove the point we need corporal punishment for the brats in the blogs. Maybe a reverse current electric shock sent by popular vote through his keyboard.
M-M, you’ll have you hands full trying to ignore this brat.
posted by Brian on
Nice job M-M; missed your post.
ChasWilson, the juvenile nature of your jesting taunts has long passed the annoyance stage. Get some help… or we’ll get a net and cage you in your Mom’s basement.
In the meantime, learn about your addictive, obsessive tendencies by reading the following:
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Abuse/Site/Transcripts/stalking_and_obsessive_love.htm
The money quote from the psychotherapist is: “I often say that a stalker acts like a child. He’d rather have your love, but he’ll take your anger if there’s no alternative. The worst thing is to be ignored. But often, that’s the best tactic and hope that he will get bored and go away.”
posted by Brian on
And I missed this perfecto quote –
The money quote from the psychotherapist is: “I often say that a stalker acts like a child. He’d rather have your love, but he’ll take your anger if there’s no alternative. The worst thing is to be ignored. But often, that’s the best tactic and hope that he will get bored and go away.”
posted by Amicus on
When I read the title of this article, I thought it was about another one of Dale Captenter’s no-reply lectures.
Sure enough, one showed up three days later.
posted by Charles Wilson on
Poor Brian. First I prove that North Liar Forty merits the nickname. Then I prove that Michigan-Matt is a liar about being a “moderate.” And that he’s engaged in the same “stalking” as me, i.e., looking up what someone wrote. Only, because he’s a Republican, he calls it research.
Then I show that Michigan-Matt, not me, has the hots for the ex-gay, never-gay, rentboy porn actor-turned wingnut hero. And, finally, I show that the Cabinette axis — North Liar Forty and Michigan Matt — have posted at least six times as often as I have about their friend, Matt Sanchez.
Your response? That I live in ma’s basement. If you only knew!
posted by Michigan-Matt on
Brian, thanks for telling it like it is but the best policy for ChasWilson is to just hit the ignore button. He’s well known to be a blithering ass; leave him to continue to prove it.
“What?s possibly the funniest thing, among MANY funny things, about Charles Wilson is his rather sad and hamfisted attempt to make the term ?Log Cabinette? part of the lexicon. The phrase brings up an anemic 275 Google hits, a huge number of which happen to be comments on this very site (which generally doesn?t censor assholes like him, so enjoy your freedom, Charles), and the vast majority of the hits attributable to Charles himself. Charles, every URL that I searched with the term ?logcabinette? in it is available. Why don?t you put your money where your mouth is and try to ride your old, gray, lexical mare across the finish line?”
or this follow up
“Wilson is like the scavenger pigeons in the park, the more you feed him the higher odds are he?ll shit on your head.
These are the effects of HIV dementia, from someone who has nothing better to do than stay at home all day bothering people online.”
I’d add, in his Mother’s basement, but someone has already released that gem of truth.
posted by Charles Wilson on
And then there’s the claim from Michigan Matt and his alter-ego North Liar Forty, that I have “HIV dementia.” This is a lie recycled from their friend Matt Sanchez. They know it’s a lie, yet in typical Republican fashion, they keep telling it.
posted by Michigan-Matt on
ChasWilson, the ignore button is “ON”. Sorry, move on.
posted by Charles Wilson on
ChasWilson, the ignore button is “ON”. Sorry, move on.
You keep saying that, but you keep replying. Ha!
posted by ola on
Testing……….this
or this
posted by Allie on
As we know, many countries are forbidding the same-sex marriage. However, I think it’s really great. I have a friend getting married with the same sex under the help of the site BiLoves.com. And they live happily and wonderfully now.