I got a very strange phone call last week.
A woman from a marketing and design firm called. I had been recommended to her, she said, as a good writer who had done work for non-profits.
Yes, I said.
She asked me if I would be available to work as a freelancer on a three-year project for a capital campaign.
Yep, I said.
Then she said: "You know, before we go further, I should ask you something."
OK? I said.
She paused.
"How do you feel about working for an evangelical institution?"
Now I paused.
For a very long time.
"An evangelical Christian institution?" I asked. "Like a church?"
"An evangelical Christian institution," she said.
I almost laughed.
My first thought was---Are you kidding me?
But then I started thinking about other things.
There are, of course, circumstances under which I would not write. I would not write for an institution that included anti-gay work as part of its mission.
I think we have a responsibility, as talented gay and lesbian people, not to contribute our gifts toward people and institutions who actively work against us, no matter how much we need the work or how much we might get paid.
But.
But should I turn work-or any sort of association-down just because the institution is evangelical?
My kind of work, of course, is different from other kinds of work. I don't construct buildings or add up numbers, objective things that would likely produce a similar outcome no matter who does it.
My kind of work is persuasive-that is, when I write for non-profits, it's usually my job to connect with an audience in such a strong, emotional way that they will apply to the school or come to an event or call their local politco or send money.
And I was recommended to this woman because I can be very, very persuasive.
So this, really, became a serious moral question for me. Could I take a job that would involve me raising support for an evangelical institution?
I had a quick vision of sitting in a room with a bunch of suited evangelicals. Me, with my multi-colored hair and multi-pierced ears, with my liberal opinions and my willing mouth to voice them.
I almost laughed again.
Then I thought: Well, why not? An institution could be (and now I believe that this one, in fact, is) a college and I'm a strong believer in education. Actually, I know lots of good people, gay and straight, who were educated at evangelical or Catholic colleges. Some experienced openness and acceptance, some didn't.
Yet on balance, I think that evangelical schools do a lot of good work. Maybe not for us-but in the world.
That's the thing I think we forget when we have a whiplash response toward evangelicals. We don't trust them, right? We are sure that they hate us (and yes, some of them do). We are convinced that one of their primary motivations is to eliminate us and destroy our happiness. We think that the way they conceive of the role of women and families is backward and regressive. Many of us think that evangelicals are evil.
But that can't be true-or at least, it can't be true of all of them nor of all evangelical institutions.
I think this is one of our big problems. Gays and lesbians are a large voting block (some say 5 percent). Evangelicals are a larger voting block (about 23 percent). They may not need us-but you know what?
We probably need them.
Perhaps we should start thinking about evangelicals not as evil but as misguided. Think how much good that 23 percent voting block could do! They could get us universal health care! They could make inroads into immigration reform!
Perhaps we should think of evangelicals not as adversaries but as potential partners. Perhaps they need to be persuaded that their time, money and energy is better spent on real problems facing America---problems that Jesus might have cared deeply about, like poor education systems, expensive health care and few affordable housing options.
But if we never work together or associate with each other, how will we ever find common ground on these issues or any others?
Once I started thinking along these lines, I started thinking about this job as a possible educational opportunity. Maybe I could win these suited evangelicals over.
"Are you there?" the woman on the phone said.
"I don't have a problem working for an evangelical institution," I said. "But they may have a problem with me. I'm an open lesbian. I write a column in the gay press."
"Well," she said. "I don't know how much respect you would get in that room. Let me talk to them and call you back."
I haven't heard from her.
It's too bad.
18 Comments for “Talking to Evangelicals”
posted by Casey on
Next time… maybe next time. Still, it makes me so happy to see somebody else come to the same conclusion I have about speaking to people of faith. This time the door may have closed, but another one will open someday, and that time, you’ll be ready for it.
posted by kittynboi on
Sounds like they made the decision for you. Whether or not we will “reach out” to them, I don’t expect them to ever return the favor.
posted by Kary on
Isn’t this amusing…..you, acting the Christian (in the true sense of Jesus’ message), and they (oh, surprise) acting like the closed-minded assholes they truly are. Fuck ’em. All of ’em. Please don’t socialize with the “Nazi’s”.
posted by Casey on
Kary – socialize with whom you will, or not, but calling people nazis doesn’t get us anywhere but even further alienated from people who need to know us before they’ll even have a chance to change their minds. Moreover, I know and love many evangelical Christians, and by and large, they are decent people, often with a greater sense of social justice than the general public. On this issue many of them are wrong, yes – but that doesn’t make them evil, just misguided. We’ll win this by, as you put it, “acting the Christian” until they can’t deny that God is in us and loves us. It takes patience, but it works, I promise.
posted by kittynboi on
, but calling people nazis doesn’t get us anywhere but even further alienated from people who need to know us before they’ll even have a chance to change their minds.
They’ve done a good job of alienating themselves from us on their own.
often with a greater sense of social justice than the general public.
Well, I am not up to turning America in to a socialist paradise, so that doesn’t sway me a lot.
posted by dalea on
As someone who has tried to dialog with evangelicals, in a structured setting, for about 5 years, all I can say is give up now. They will not listen to you, will not pay attention to anything you say that does not directly impact their own projects. In short, it is a lesson in fuitility. And an understanding of what Hannah Arendt meant by ‘the banality of evil’.
Casey tells us all sorts of neat things about evangelicals. Based on my own experience both with structured dialog and personal encounters over many years with tens of dozens; these people are filth. Avoid them irregardless of what they promise, no matter how charming they seem to be.
Been there, done that. Actually reached out to evangelicals. And miraculously survived.
posted by Randy R. on
We should reach out to the children — they can still be saved!
posted by Lori Heine on
I’m all for talking with evangelicals. But I think it’s important to remember that talking with them does not necessarily mean always telling them exactly what they want to hear.
As a regular writer for the GLBT web magazine, Whosoever, I regularly incur the wrath of evangelicals because I give them a taste of their own medicine. I offer them “tough love.” I believe they are grievously sinning against GLBT people — especially those of religious faith — in the way they are dealing with us, and I don’t hesitate to tell them so.
Is this mean? They certainly seem to think so. But they can’t go on claiming they wish to reform or correct us if they aren’t willing to be reformed or corrected themselves. Humility used to be considered a Christian virtue, but they seem to have forgotten that. They’re a lot better at dishing out moral advice than they are at taking it.
posted by kittynboi on
I’m all for talking with evangelicals. But I think it’s important to remember that talking with them does not necessarily mean always telling them exactly what they want to hear.
This is one thing that seems to be left out of these discussions. Many people, when advocating “dialogue”, often seem to be of the position of coddling these people, or not realizing just how resistant these people will be.
Can we help these people out of their ignorance? My dad often says you can’t help anyone who doesn’t want to help themselves. Similarly, we never really address the question of whether or not they WANT to talk or WANT to understand. If they don’t, will our efforts make any difference?
posted by Lori Heine on
Other than the rather cynical difference of exposing some of the biggest frauds for what they really are, I don’t know. Do I, for example, really hope that they’ll all repent? For their sake, of course I do. But if they prefer to remain obstinate (and resolutely dangerous), I’ll settle for making sure that as few other people as possible are duped by them.
Many of the coddlers are under the impression that evangelicals all really care about our souls, and that they’re honestly attempting to save us from what they believe to be our sinful ways. I have come to believe that this is far from always true. People who show absolute zero interest in how their own behavior might be affecting the lives of others cannot be taken seriously when they claim to care about morality. And when they doggedly ignore almost everything the Gospels record Jesus as ever having said or done, they are laughably hypocritical in calling themselves Christians.
They are running a scam, and far too many people are buying into it. As an increasing number of those “in the middle” on the issue of GLBT rights come to realize that, the power of the religious right will decline. That may well be the only way it will happen.
Better than trying to hang them, we should give them all the rope they need to hang themselves.
posted by kittynboi on
Many of the coddlers are under the impression that evangelicals all really care about our souls, and that they’re honestly attempting to save us from what they believe to be our sinful ways. I have come to believe that this is far from always true.
Indeed. Many people say; “These people just think they’re doing the right thing.” Often, its not that simple OR benign. Many people simply want to destroy us.
posted by Casey on
Dead on, Lori – and trust me, a “coddler” I’m not. I as much motivated to talk to them about their erroneous theology against gays for their own sake and the sake of the Church I love as I am for the good of gays and lesbians… and that’s part of the strongest argument I can make to them. The thing about evangelicals is that they love the Word, and they love sharing it. Convince them that there is a greater, better understanding of the text to be had, and that the current (erroneous) interpretation is an unnecessary barrier toward people, gay and straight, being receptive to that Word, and they’ll start listening to you. Typical negotiation – find a way that your interest is in their interest, and you’ve got ’em. Best of all, it’s true.
posted by Casey on
Of course, as Kittynboi notes, this is a matter of whether they really do want to have the best understanding of the Scripture that they claim to base their lives on, and the most effective results in their evangelizing, from which we take their label. I think they do. Of course, there are some small number of big names out there, the ones who have made their fortunes and staked their reputation on their certainty that gays are evil, who are unwilling to change out of pride itself… but the vast majority of folks in the pews are not that way, and can be made to see that pride for the sin it is… when those of us opposing the prideful preachers aren’t being just as bad ourselves.
posted by Randy R. on
Casey: What an excellent idea! I’ve been trying hard for many years to figure a way to talk to these people, and you gave me terrific insight and a way that might actually move them.
You should write about your experiences and ideas for a gay magazine so that others may benefit. Seriously! I know plenty of gay people who come from these types of families, and it might help heal the rift.
posted by Casey on
Randy R. – thanks for your comments, you made me feel a lot better about posting on here, and made my night. I’m glad the insights helped, and while I’m not (yet) ready to write that article, I do have one more point that recently occurred to me while I was reading a note my pastor gave me, and that point is this. I think we sometimes forget how difficult a thing we are asking people of faith to do – we are asking them to admit that they are wrong. To swallow their pride, deny their certainty, and fundamentally change an attitude. To repent – and that’s the hardest thing in the world. There’s a way most of us can make that journey easier, though, and that is to admit that, often, we were wrong about them, too. I loathed evangelicals for years – until I knew them. I discovered that I was wrong to hate them, and rethought a lot of my beliefs because of it, eventually finding much more common ground with them than I ever expected. Having the ability to describe that journey is what, more than anything, helps me communicate with them. Take the hard step first – admit where you were wrong, and demonstrate a humble and open mind in action – and maybe they’ll follow. Love your enemy.
posted by dalea on
Hmmm, I really had no opinion of evangelicals until I came to know them. And despite efforts to engage in dialog, to share with them the commanalities of both our lives, it really did not work. Knowing them, I have come to loathe them. And the grab bag of prejudices and nostrums they call ‘religion’. So, try it and see how it goes. But don’t be overly optimistic. Slightly cynical might be the best approach.
posted by Lou on
Do evangelicals have prejudices? Yes! Can they be closed minded and difficult to find common ground? Yes!
However, I have to empathize with them and I ironically find that the healthy segments of the gay community are actually moving closer to conservative and evangelical beliefs. Consider how many in the gay community believe that gay marriage, civil unions, long term friendships, relationships, family and family values as well as faith are important parts of a healthy life.
Compare this to the drama, the loneliness, the gossip, the promiscuity and shallow values that still exist in transient and adulterous (open) relationships, group sex and relative moral values that add to the loneliness and misery…and escape (drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, etc).
More and more the gay community sees that the christians and evangelicals do not have a monopoly on and cannot exclude gays from the ingredients of a quality life filled with love and meaning.
More and more the eternal truths of happiness grow closer between christians and gays….the difference is that christians need to get over the fact that sex without love is sin…not homosexuality….while the gay community has to get over the fear of christian judgement.
There is so much fear and distrust yet the factions are moving closer and closer. In a couple generations gays will be as controversial in the church as divorce was in the 1950s.
Have patience and reallize that you dont have to rebel or accept the evangelical baggage but that timeless morals and values transcend judgement on either side.
posted by Mike on
Lou said: “Compare this to the drama, the loneliness, the gossip, the promiscuity and shallow values that still exist in transient and adulterous (open) relationships, group sex and relative moral values that add to the loneliness and misery…and escape (drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, etc).”
Uh. I hate to break it to you but the gay community has NO monopoly on “bad” behavior. Ever heard of the swinger scene? I have straight friends who participate. At swinger events lots of straight people engage in group sex and open relationships. Not to mention drugs, alcohol, gambling. At least have the intellectual honesty to address the both sets of facts.
Your statements make you sound like someone who was rejected by gay culture, probably because you weren’t a perfect 10. Gay culture is just so shallow, right? Have you ever seen a heavy female in a straight nightclub? Or at a health club? Straight guys just swarm over the heavy ones. Yeah. Straight guys aren’t shallow.
Don’t point the laser at gay culture. Point it American culture or human culture.
I can respect your position on evangelicals. Whatever. You believe what you want to believe. Doesn’t make you a bad person. In this context you should keep your mouth shut unless you’re willing to point out that straight culture has the same problems. Otherwise you end up sounding really ignorant.
We’re all human.