One of the most oppressive burdens gays have to carry in the fight for equality is the permission some heterosexuals give themselves to talk explicitly in public about specific sexual practices some homosexuals may prefer. Any particular sexual act, described in lurid enough detail to a nonparticipant, can be made to sound repellant, particularly to someone who does not share the participants' taste. The Marquis de Sade was not even trying to disgust people in describing his catholic sexual escapades - most all of them heterosexual -- yet remains to this day the brand name for sexual disgust.
Which is why heterosexuals nearly always leave one another's sexual proclivities at the bedroom door. With the exception of frat-boy braggadocio (usually among single men, and usually in private) it is rare to hear public discussion of specific heterosexual acts, from the mundane to the exotic.
But anti-gay heterosexuals (and even some who are neutral) exercise something close to voyeuristic exuberance in peppering discussion of gay civil rights with vulgar and extreme descriptions of sexual acts. In 1991, California's state senator David Knowles set the standard, in an obscene tirade on the Senate floor during debate on a bill that would have done no more than prohibit employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. Knowles insisted on describing "the specifics of the lifestyle" in shocking terms that left members speechless, and fearful about whether the publicly broadcast debate would violate obscenity laws. After an uproar in the chamber, Knowles's fellow conservative Republicans had to shout him down.
This is still a preferred tactic in opposing gay equality, both at home and abroad. In our own country, Liberty Counsel's Matt Barber has been quoted (by his anti-gay supporters) reducing homosexual sexual orientation to "one man violently cramming his penis into another man's lower intestine and calling it 'love' " In Uganda, a full-page newspaper ad, headlined "Top Homos In Uganda Named" provides a Sadistic catalogue of the sexual preferences of various homosexuals there.
Of all the inequalities lesbians and gay men have to endure, this one is among the most degrading. No heterosexual would stand for being diminished to the sum of his or her sexual activities, and homosexuals should not be held to a different standard. Without sex, we would all be less than human, but not even a beast is composed only of its carnality.
This obsession among some heterosexuals is more than disrespectful; it is really the only distraction they can come up with to keep us off the subject, which is equal rights under the law. We are having a civil discussion, here, and I don't think it's out of line for us to expect heterosexuals to show us the same courtesy about private matters they enforce and expect among themselves.
Corvino, John
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“But, as I said to Bobby above, parenting, while absolutely essential to the continuation of society and its ability to take care of itself, is expensive, both in terms of resources and time, and I have no problem with encouraging people to do it.”
For most of human history,they did not NEED to be “encouraged,” by the government, to do it. It was simply what most people did. The human race perpetuated itself quite nicely without single people being expected to bear the burden of helping couples with children raise their kids.
It is fundamentally immoral for a majority of any sort to decide somebody died and made them God, and that they have the right to gang up electorally on any smaller group, essentially put a gun to their heads, and confiscate a portion of their earnings. It may be called taxation, but it is theft.
I understand your argument, NDT, but it is essentially yet another version of Hillary Clinton’s “It Takes a Village” line of thinking. I reject it regardless of whether it comes from the Left or from the Right. Statism has a funny way of coming around to the same point, from whichever direction it begins.
I can’t blame Bobby for wanting to be able to keep the money he works so hard to earn. And I don’t think the government should be in the business of rewarding some people’s choices and not others. When liberals do it, it’s called “social engineering.” When conservatives do it, it’s the same thing.
Statist philosophies are twins under the skin.
Tonight I finally had that argument with one of the friends with whom I spent Christmas. I couldn’t stand it anymore. She started talking about how the rich all want the poor to stay poor because they want to use them as “cannon fodder.” It was simply too much.
I asked her who died and made HER God, that it was her job to determine how rich was rich enough and how rich was too rich. I also asked her what ought to determine that decision — sheer numbers? That’s tyranny, no matter how you slice it. Tyranny of the majority was something the founders of this country warned us against.
I don’t think her reasoning is much different, though it was on a different subject. Statism always tries to justify itself in terms of raw numbers.
I had to ask my friend if she SERIOUSLY believed that she — at nearly sixty — and I, just over ten years younger than she, would be deliberately kept poor by the evil rich so they could use us for cannon fodder. Not surprisingly, she changed the subject.
We quite simply need to make the idiocy in this country stop — while we still have a country.
To my statement: âNo, actually I’m not. Just as I stated earlier when you brought up the child marriage and single marriage distractions.â
North Dallas Thirty claims: âYes, actually you are.â
No, actually, I’m not. Your serve.
Selfish… Is that how you see all civil rights movements, or just ours?
I am âdemandingâ the right for same-sex couples to be given legal parity with opposite-sex couples. And if you didn’t care so little about people being treated equally and fairly; if you didn’t have a moral issue with homosexuality, you’d agree. But then that’s what makes you, a supposed homosexual, particularly pathetic.
Ah, but I don’t. Children and animals cannot consent. I have concerns about polygamy because in the past it has been an archaic patriarchal system in which women tend to be abused, but unlike you I wouldn’t be supporting amendments to ban it. I used to know a non-religious, liberal-minded, heterosexual woman, an artist in fact, who was quite outspoken in favor of polyamory. But I have yet to see a compelling case in regards to incestuous relationships.
I’m still waiting for an explanation of the supposed harm that allowing same-sex marriage brings… Ah, but then you don’t have one. Just socially conservative prejudices against homosexuality and biblical interpretations about marriage. Funny thing about that, your bible has all kinds of polygamous marriages in it. Odd that I don’t see you taking up the torch for it…
No, I don’t. This is more of your deliberate LIES. Adults having sex with children most definitely has harmful affects on them and society. Same-sex relationships between adults does not harm anyone. Quit being a coward and explain just what it is about same-sex relationships that you find so offensive and harmful to society. Make your damn case already…
What does recognizing same-sex marriage have to do with an âunlimited right to do whatever we wantâ? Not a fucking thing. But you’re just a liar so you’ll twist and make things up to further your backward, anti-homosexual agenda.
Discrimination against interracial couples was wrong. Such relationships did not and do not harm society. Discrimination against same-sex couples is wrong. Such relationships did not and do not harm society. And you have yet to provide one iota of an argument to the contrary. Because you don’t have one. And you are no doubt well aware that hauling your bible out to back you up isn’t going to win your argument.
That’s because I have nothing to prove to you. I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think of me. And I’m damn sure not going to give a bigot like you who clearly hates homosexuals more ammunition to use against us. Obviously, due to your religious and socially conservative perceptions, you are disgusted at a perceived inherent immorality of same-sex relationships. You’re just too much of a coward to admit it, so you hide behind isolated incidents, specious logic, and deliberate mischaracterizations to make your arguments for you.
There’s that talking point again. Since the Supreme Court didn’t take up same-sex marriage once, it’s a done deal. Just as the Supreme Court refused to strike down sodomy laws in Bowers v. Hardwick (1986), but then struck them down in Lawrence v. Texas (2003). Clearly, not everything is set in stone.
That very case in particular illustrated a recognition of a right to privacy; for adults to have a right to choose who they want to have sexual relations with set a precedent, and this will be used in arguing against current bans on same-sex marriage.
But then I already provided all this information to you earlier. You just ignored it, like you do everything that contradicts your BS claims and specious arguments. So now here you are rehashing the same old tired talking-point from the homosexual hate camp.
A very inconvenient reality for bigots like yourself, isn’t it? The same sort of rationale used to deny us marriage today is that which was used against interracial couples, but you don’t like the comparison, because while its easy to bash on the gays, even a bigot like yourself knows that while a few might for some bizarre reason respect these bigoted notions of yours, likely no one here would stand for you to tear down interracial coupling.
~LOL~ Oh really! Race is most certainly NOT simply an artificial construct. Aside from varying degrees of physiological differences, you can see this in how certain diseases disproportionately effect certain racial minorities. In spite of this, it is also not a legitimate criteria for discrimination. Nor is gender. Nor is sexual orientation.
By the way, gender is addressed in the constitution. And discrimination based on gender is prohibited by multiple pieces of legally binding legislation which were legally enacted by the Congress and signed into law…
What were you even trying to suggest by all this? That it is constitutional to discriminate based on gender since it isn’t covered as comprehensively as race? Are you having to go so far as this just to rationalize why it is appropriate for the government to discriminate against couples based on their gender mix? Not that I’d be surprised, this coming from you, but that is daring.
To my statement pointing out the inconsistency of the anti-equality movement: âFunny that, all the procreation and child-rearing issues are relevant when it comes to ‘the gay’. However, older couples & infertile couples get a free pass.â
North Dallas Thirty replies: âAh, the hilarity.â
Ah, the inconsistency. You and your ilk oppose same-sex marriage on the grounds that same-sex couples are unable to procreate without surrogates, but yet this is no factor whatsoever when it comes to other {heterosexual} couples who cannot (or choose not) to procreate. Thus proving that the procreation excuse is a red-herring.
I notice you offer no explanation for your inconsistency. Typical.
Nope, I’m saying you and your ilk are hypocrites. You deny same-sex marriage on the basis of a lack of procreation, but yet you don’t deny this to infertile couples. It’s inconsistency. Unlike you, I wouldn’t deny marriage to couples who are infertile, same-sex, older, or who simply choose not to have children. You, however, apply the dubious procreation prerequisite only where it is convenient to push your anti-homosexual agenda.
Again I will ask you, why do you deny marriage to same-sex couples simply because they cannot bear children?
True. And compelling case, at that. In our relationships, however, such an outcome is not a factor. So you can’t use that as another of your flimsy excuses.
Why give them the benefit of the doubt? How do your rationalize such an inane thing from a legal perspective â give one group the benefit of the doubt, exclude another group?
And how, then, do you excuse and elderly couple who clearly are not going to be procreating together? Inconsistency…
All of your smoke and mirrors here is avoiding many very important issues, but one in particular is that many same-sex couples DO have children, either through surrogates or adoption or even through previous heterosexual marriages. Why deny these families the protections and legal benefits that heterosexual parented families are granted? Just sheer prejudice.
Someone like you would assume such an absurdity. A conspiracy theory that âprogressiveâ judges are all trying to ruin your bigoted, heteronormative system that you worship so much.
Actually, judges asking hypothetical questions like these are common in such cases. To help better determine things like the motivation for the case. Why do the parties involved feel the case has merit, why are they pursuing a case that may be quite weak. It’s a very common practice. But you’re too busy looking for conspiracy theories and avoiding the actual subject of the exchange. More smoke and mirrors. Typical.
This isn’t a criminal case, genius, try again.
Yes, yes, all gays are rich… And therefore you rationalize why it is appropriate to discriminate against us. You certainly seem to have a very strong vitriolic vendetta against us. I wonder what that stems from? Some sort of extreme cognitive dissonance over possessing physical attractions that are ‘immoral’, ‘ungodly’, ‘non-traditional’ and all that…? Uh huh. I think so.
And nice attempt to avoid the point, too. Predictable.
To my remark: âAnd that’s just how you like it. The evil gay kept in its proper place to conform to conservative traditionalism and biblical standards.â
North Dallas Thirty responds with a: âYawn.â
I’ll take that as a nod of agreement.
Nope, I call this supportive:
âWe must be careful to keep our eyes on the prize–equal rights for every American. We must continue to fight for the Employment Non Discrimination Act. We must expand hate crime legislation and be vigilant about how these laws are enforced–.continue to expand adoption rights to make them consistent –and we must repeal the âDonât ask, donât tellâ military policy.â ~ Barack Obama
âI opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will also oppose any proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying. â ~ Barack Obama
“When it comes to federal rights — the over 1,100 rights that right now are not being given to same-sex couples. I think thatâs unacceptable, and as presidentâ¦Iâm going to fight hard to make sure those rights are available.” ~ Barack Obama
“It is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided…and that in years hence I may be seen as someone who was on the wrong side of history.” ~ Barack Obama
You don’t hear that kind of stuff from old McCain, or very many Republicans… In fact, I can’t think of one.
There is no getting around it, no matter how hard you try. Your anti-gay Republican party is actively working against us. Has been for a very long time now. A vote that party, generally-speaking, is a vote against homosexual equality, period.
What little support and progress we’re making is coming from Democrats. And as I have stated repeatedly now, I will support those candidates who are most viable and most with us, not those who are against us. That counts you and your ilk out.
Of course you can’t, conveniently. It’s all our fault that they, and you, hate us so much. Nice cop out. But you bring up one good point, the Republican party has rarely been one for âdoling out favorsâ based on minority status, other than their favorite minority â the rich.
Oh, the ultimate hypocritical lie! If you did, then you’d support same-sex marriage to help provide the support and encouragement that same-sex parents need… The dividends would become obvious later. But your prejudice and your warped ideologies get in the way.
Another inconsistency; another lie. If you did truly encourage people to engage in parenting, then you’d be encouraging same-sex parents, not insulting them, marginalizing their significance, and certainly not advocating for restricting access to the very sort of benefits they need. Shameful.
By the way, ND30, I’ve been meaning to ask, which technique do you prefer for eliminating the ‘homosexual problem’: reparative therapy, the reorientation therapy of Richard Cohen, or gas chambers? Or do you go for something a bit less invasive, like a good old fashioned closet of shame?
~âIt is fundamentally immoral for a majority of any sort to decide somebody died and made them God, and that they have the right to gang up electorally on any smaller group, essentially put a gun to their heads, and confiscate a portion of their earnings. It may be called taxation, but it is theft.â ~ Lori Heine
Then you must be really worked up over what ND30′s band of homophobes have been doing to us…?
“Then you must be really worked up over what ND30′s band of homophobes have been doing to us…?”
I don’t think they’re ND30′s band of homophobes. I don’t choose to get into the middle of your fight with him. I get myself in quite enough trouble by getting into my own fights, and lately I’ve been enjoying the relative peace.
I don’t approve of the government being used, by a numerical majority, to infringe on the freedoms of others by force or fraud. This is true regardless of whether it’s being done by homophobes or by anybody else.
“Let’s put it this way, Bobby; in 50 or so years when you don’t feel like climbing up on your roof to fix it, you’ll be glad those kids are around.”
—Please NDT, this isn’t one of those sci-fi films when suddeenly nobody can get pregnant and everyone starts getting old.
“Parenting is a huge drain of time and resources for folks, and I don’t have any problem with providing them support and encouragement, even though it costs now; the dividends become obvious later.”
—Read Freakanomics and you’ll see that more abortions equals less crime. Parenting is a choice, I agree with Lori’s points about statism, in a free society you should have to pay for your own choices and not demand help from the government. Breeding is not a virtue, assuming you live in Dallas I’m sure you’ve deal with an increasing traffic problem.
“As for schools, that’s a requirement of a modern democracy; either we limit voting to those who are educated, or we make an honest stab at educating everyone.”
—Considering that a lot of educated college students voted for Obama I don’t think it matters if people are educated or not when it comes to voting.
“But I for one do think we non-married, non-childraising folks should have a say in what exactly is going on with these things, especially since the Obama Party lunatics who run them now are cutting science classes because they think they overly benefit white people.”
—The Obama administration is actually cutting something? I’m shocked, I thought wasting money was their fetish. Well, I can’t believe i’m saying this but kudos to Obama.
And if you didn’t care so little about people being treated equally and fairly; if you didn’t have a moral issue with homosexuality, you’d agree.
And, I suppose, if I didn’t care so little about people being treated “equally and fairly”; if I didn’t have a “moral issue” with pedophilia, bestiality, child marriage, incestuous marriage, and plural marriages, I’d agree with those, too.
Next:
Adults having sex with children most definitely has harmful affects on them and society.
Which is, of course, why the gay community demands that five-year-old children be taught gay sex in schools, argues that sex with children is normal and “common” in the gay community, and screams “homophobe” when anyone dares investigate complaints of gay couples having sex with children.
And your response when confronted with that?
And I’m damn sure not going to give a bigot like you who clearly hates homosexuals more ammunition to use against us.
Thank you for that clear outline of your priorities. Even though you claim to think that adults having sex with children is harmful to them and society, it is more important to you to avoid what you think is negative PR for the gay community.
You clearly demonstrate the infantilized mindset of the gay and lesbian community. You are incapable of even condemning one of the most basic and visceral crimes out there because of your childish fears that doing so makes you look bad.
What kind of a community encourages this behavior? I think we know the answer to that; the kind that answers any sort of criticism with this.
By the way, ND30, I’ve been meaning to ask, which technique do you prefer for eliminating the ‘homosexual problem’: reparative therapy, the reorientation therapy of Richard Cohen, or gas chambers? Or do you go for something a bit less invasive, like a good old fashioned closet of shame?
So let’s see; first you tried to deny I was gay, then you tried to claim I was a self-hating gay, and now you’re claiming I want to eliminate all gay people. Instead of actually dealing with the promiscuous, irresponsible, and criminal behavior you claim to oppose, you attack the people who pointed it out.
Oh, the ultimate hypocritical lie! If you did, then you’d support same-sex marriage to help provide the support and encouragement that same-sex parents need.
Nope.
If we fixed the problem with heterosexual parenting, you’d eliminate 99.9% of same-sex parenting — because there wouldn’t be any babies left to be adopted or fostered off.
Wouldn’t you agree that it would be better for society to avoid having the need for kids to be adopted or fostered off in the first place? Or is your concern for children only so that you can “adopt” one of them and use it to whine for how you need “marriage” as you dress it as a sex slave and take it to sex fairs to show off for your friends?
And the remaining 0.01% that want to figure out ways to rig the game to get around the fact that they’re incapable of doing something that even the lowliest heterosexual couple can do naturally don’t need any sort of subsidy or encouragement.
“If we fixed the problem with heterosexual parenting, you’d eliminate 99.9% of same-sex parenting — because there wouldn’t be any babies left to be adopted or fostered off. ”
—Not all kids are wanted, most people want to adopt babies, specially white babies. Teenagers are rarely adopted. Even Bill O’Reilly has gone on the record supporting gay adoption after realizing that gays adopt the kids nobody wants, including those with special needs.
“Which is, of course, why the gay community demands that five-year-old children be taught gay sex in schools, ”
—Where’s the sex in Heather has two mommies, King and King, and It Takes a Family? GLESN doesn’t demand gay sex books, just gay tolerance materials. Only South Park’s Mr. Garisson was teaching kindergarteners how to put on a condom with your mouth, and he’s a fictional character!
There you go again, equating things that don’t compare again. So explain, in your oh-so-non-homophobic mentality, just what it is you find so immoral about homosexuality…
Don’t be a coward. State what you really feel. Which biblical passage is motivating you? Genesis chapters 18 and 19; Leviticus 18 and 20; Romans 1:26-27?
There’s that lie again. Correction, the âgay communityâ does not âdemandâ that five-year-old children be âtaught gay sex in schoolsâ. The âgay communityâ does not argue that âsex with children is normal and commonâ among us.
As for investigating complaints of same-sex couples for having sex with children, I don’t know who is arguing against such things (and I don’t need you to repost some blog comment someone made somewhere suggesting such a thing), but as long as such investigations are fair and motivated by reasonable complaints rather than mere prejudices like ‘they’re gay, I’ll bet their having sex with those kids’, then I’m sure most of us, myself included, wouldn’t have any problem with such investigations at all.
What is a legitimate concern is that such investigations would be no more automatic for us than they are for opposite-sex adoption.
I know you don’t answer most of my questions but I try anyways. Why do you hate homosexuals so much? Is it just because more of us don’t vote for your anti-gay Republican party, or is it because you just think people who have sex with members of the same sex is gross? Inquiring minds want to know!
There you go again. Condemning sex with children to pacify you here is not going to save one child from being abused. It is not going to further convince those of us here who already know that such things are clearly wrong.
What it would do is give some miserable, homophobic bigot like yourself satisfaction and more propaganda to further your gay-hating agenda. I’m not playing along no matter how you spin it, twist it, insinuate, accuse and otherwise distort, so kiss my ass.
Another blanket indictment of the entire homosexual population â more evidence of your unreasonable, bigoted hatred for âthe gay and lesbian communityâ.
To the contrary, I condemn such things when it actually counts, and when I’m dealing with reasonable people, and when someone is offering legitimate concerns. I don’t do it on demand here just to make you look good. I know where I stand, and I have nothing to prove to a disgusting, miserable bigot like yourself.
I’m part of that community, and yet I don’t encourage this behavior. Just as most here who are part of that community don’t encourage that sort of behavior.
And not just any sort of criticism, only the bullshit, generalized, bigoted sort of criticism spouted by people like you.
Frankly, I still don’t believe you’re a homosexual. I think you are a very, very persistent troll who is trying to push right-wing partisanship and anti-gay social conservatism and has chosen to do so as an ‘insider’.
You still haven’t bothered to admit here in all of these exchanges that you are even remotely homosexual, even if a greatly conflicted one. You just haven’t formally denied it either. So we’re just supposed to assume you are and how dare any of us suspect otherwise.
In all sincerity, you are as bad or worse than any heterosexual, homophobic bigot that I have ever had dealings with. And I’ve been doing dealing with this shit, particularly online, for a long time now.
Just like those many bigots I’ve had dealings with on local or more mainstream blogs, you rely on assumptions, stereotypes, taking isolated incidents as evidence of a
systemicno, an all-encompassing problem, the use of sweeping generalizations, questioning the motives of the entire community, impugning the character of all who don’t agree with you or who don’t offer what you deem to be sufficient criticism of bad behaviors (which would include attacking the entire community as a whole), using issues and concerns about rights and equality derisively, repeatedly suggesting through such blanket, negative caricatures that there is something inherently dysfunctional about being a homosexual, even using insulting labels like âgay-sex marriageâ, etc. It’s all in there. All the typical red herrings and non sequiturs.Your abhorrence of homosexuals and homosexuality is more than obvious. And it’s a bullshit, flimsy excuse that you are simply attempting to point out âpromiscuous, irresponsible, and criminal behaviorâ. In actuality, you are clearly trying to make a case against any efforts for homosexuals to be treated with dignity and be given legal recognition; you’re building a case against homosexuality in general.
I condemn promiscuity and what I believe to be irresponsible and certainly criminal behavior in our community, but unlike you, when I do so I don’t implicate the ENTIRE HOMOSEXUAL POPULATION.
Nice spin job, but it fails. You simply reveal more of your inconsistency.
I support giving married couples {same-sex and opposite-sex} and families the sort of legal protections, benefits and support they need. You, on the other hand, are a hypocrite on this issue. You only support giving heterosexual families the support they need. The same-sex couples out there today who are raising children or planning to in the near future, these you want to give NO support to. None. Zip. Zero. In fact, if you had your way, they probably won’t be permitted to have or adopt those children anyway.
Of course it would. It would be a far better world if there were less orphaned children. But let’s get back down to planet Earth now, shall we?
There currently are some 130,000 orphaned kids in this country every year. This in spite of all the legal and financial support that married families receive now. There are currently at least tens of thousands of same-sex couples who are raising children right now or will in the immediate future. There are currently millions of children around the world who are orphaned and will NEVER be adopted. And the sad reality is, there will always be children who will be orphaned by dead, incapacitated or irresponsible parents.
Like I said, if you ACTUALLY believed that we should give support and encouragement to parents who are raising children then you’d support same-sex marriage… But you don’t. Because you’re a hypocrite with a prejudice against homosexuals and same-sex couples.
I don’t know what more the reading audience here would need to figure you out for what a hateful, despicable person you are, but I think that disgusting little blurb there sums it up nicely.
This is what you think of all those same-sex couples who have given of themselves to have or adopt children… You reduce them to this. You are pathetic.
Frankly, I still don’t believe you’re a homosexual. I think you are a very, very persistent troll who is trying to push right-wing partisanship and anti-gay social conservatism and has chosen to do so as an ‘insider’.
(shrug) It’s a free country. Believe what you like.
You still haven’t bothered to admit here in all of these exchanges that you are even remotely homosexual, even if a greatly conflicted one. You just haven’t formally denied it either. So we’re just supposed to assume you are and how dare any of us suspect otherwise.
Actually, what I find most fascinating is your belief that anyone who criticizes the gay community cannot possibly be gay. It explains a lot about why the gay community acts the way it does, though.
Case in point:
I don’t know what more the reading audience here would need to figure you out for what a hateful, despicable person you are, but I think that disgusting little blurb there sums it up nicely.
And I think your reaction, especially given the facts, makes the point for me.
Some of the most unlikely attendees of Sunday’s kinky leather fetish festival were under four feet tall.
Two-year-olds Zola and Veronica Kruschel waddled through Folsom Street Fair amidst strangers in fishnets and leather crotch pouches, semi and fully nude men.
The twin girls who were also dressed for the event wore identical lace blouses, floral bonnets and black leather collars purchased from a pet store.
Fathers Gary Beuschel and John Kruse watched over them closely. They were proud to show the twins off……
Father of two, John Kruse said it is an educational experience for children. He said there were conservative parents against having kids at the event.
“Those are the same close-minded people who think we shouldn’t have children to begin with,” he said.
Notice your disgust and your cries of “despicable person” and “pathetic” are NOT about the gay “parents” who dressed their toddlers as sexual slaves, took them to a sex fair to “show off”, claimed it was an “educational experience”, and argued that anyone who disagreed with taking children to such an event was “close-minded”.
It’s with the person who pointed it out.
Interesting. Neither an admission nor a denial.
Also interesting that you are so nonchalant about the assumptions and conclusions of others, except when it comes to your certainty that the entire homosexual population, myself included, are advocates or even perpetrators of the inappropriate, despicable, or criminal behaviors depicted in a small handful of isolated incidents which you’ve managed to compile over the years and repeat ad nauseam as propaganda…
And our refusal to adequately condemn such incidents and behaviors to your satisfaction, to you, simply further proves that we somehow agree with or engage in them.
I suppose you feel that YOU know the truth about your sexual orientation and that YOU have nothing to prove to me or anyone else. Then I’m sure you can appreciate what I think of YOUR assumptions about me. I know the truth, and what you think of me, is irrelevant.
As I clearly stated before, it is not just any sort of criticism that I find bigoted or incompatible with a self-identifying homosexual, it is the generalized, irrational, insulting, baseless variety which you propagate here that simply doesn’t pass the smell test.
Yes, I know. We’ve all read the fucking thing already. You’ve posted this expansive indictment of the entire homosexual population at least a dozen times now! And yet it no more makes your point now than than it did the first time. If it were really such a HUGE epidemic in the entire âgay communityâ then you would have no problems producing new examples of it each time you wanted to make the fallacious point.
Here are the facts, it is completely irrational, unreasonable and illogical to conclude that if one guy or a dozen takes their kid to a parade and dresses them in bondage apparel, then most or all same-sex couples merely adopt children to, as you put it, dress them like âsex slavesâ and take them to âsex fairs to show offâ to friends. Sadly, insultingly, disgustingly, this sort of gross mischaracterizing of the entire homosexual population is precisely what you engage in here over and over and over again.
â
Remember what you said about âbelieve what you likeâ? Well, ditto.
If the person (you) weren’t trying to use such examples as a bludgeon to beat, shame and blame the entire âgay communityâ with, I’d be more willing to tell you exactly what I think about such fairs and those who would let their children participate in them. I suspect that a lot of other people would to.
But cry and moan and have your grand inquisition all you want, I won’t pacify you, I won’t perform for you, nor meet your demands, nor jump through your hoops. In summation, you can kiss my ass.
I suppose you feel that YOU know the truth about your sexual orientation and that YOU have nothing to prove to me or anyone else.
Naah, I just figure people can read.
Was that expecting too much?
If the person (you) weren’t trying to use such examples as a bludgeon to beat, shame and blame the entire âgay communityâ with, I’d be more willing to tell you exactly what I think about such fairs and those who would let their children participate in them.
Actually, what would seem to be more shameful to the gay community is this babbling fool of a psychiatrist “parent” stating that this sort of behavior is normal for gays and lesbians and that anyone who disagrees is “close-minded”.
It really is classic projection. You aren’t capable of criticizing other gays and lesbians because you’ve been conditioned to think that anyone who does so is a traitor and wants to put all gay people in gas chambers, so you attack the people who point it out.
~“Actually, what would seem to be more shameful to the gay community is this babbling fool of a psychiatrist “parent” stating that this sort of behavior is normal for gays and lesbians and that anyone who disagrees is “close-minded”.” ~ North Dallas Thirty
Among other things, what bothers me is when such fools are used as evidence that we’re all morally bankrupt, craven individuals and our entire community is dysfunctional.
~âIt really is classic projection. You aren’t capable of criticizing other gays and lesbians because you’ve been conditioned to think that anyone who does so is a traitor and wants to put all gay people in gas chambers, so you attack the people who point it out.â ~ North Dallas Thirty
Oh, sure, I’m not capable of it, and that’s why I made these remarks:
At the Daily Beast
At Queerty.com
At the Daily Beast
At the Independent Gay Forum
I can criticize inappropriate behavior, including that from homosexuals, but I don’t do so to satisfy bigots. I also apply some reason and objectivity when I do instead of indicting the entire homosexual population, or the entire âgay communityâ, or all âgay-sex marriageâ supporters (as you derisively refer to us), or all same-sex parents.
I don’t set up some strawman which suggests that it is homosexuality, in itself, that is dysfunctional. You should try it sometime. For a change.
I can criticize inappropriate behavior, including that from homosexuals, but I don’t do so to satisfy bigots.
Of course not. That’s your convenient excuse so that you can avoid doing the right thing when it would make you unpopular; you just call someone who opposes dressing children as sex slaves and taking them to a sex fair a “bigot”, and then you don’t have to criticize or hold your fellow gay person responsible for their behavior, or explain why the gay-sex marriage movement claims it needs marriage so that it can adopt more children as sexual toys, like these fine examples of the gay community have.
Meanwhile, as for your “criticism”, this is typical of it:
I agree that is rather hypocritical that our heteronormative, male-dominated society salivates over lesbian kisses and then moans that a kiss by two men is “shoving their lifestyle down our throats” or some other homophobic suggestive innuendo.
Blame heterosexuals. What a surprise. Again, it’s never the gay person’s fault; it’s always the heterosexual’s fault.
Wrong, I refer to you as a bigot for using single incidents like this one as an excuse to insinuate that ALL same-sex couples do the same as he.
I refer to you as a bigot for indicting the entire homosexual community in the inappropriate or despicable behaviors of some.
I refer to you as a bigot for your derisive usage of such terms as âgay-sex marriageâ.
I refer to you as a bigot for your rabid, sweeping attacks on the ENTIRE homosexual population.
No matter how you try to spin and evade this reality, it will still remain; your words are still here for all to read in astonishment and disgust.
That’s because the SAME-SEX MARRIAGE movement doesn’t claim that it needs marriage so that it can adopt children as sex toys, you’re just a liar with a massive resentment of homosexuals because most of us don’t support your anti-gay Republican party.
North Dallas Thirty attempted to downplay the following quote from me as a typical example of my criticism of some in the homosexual community:
âI agree that is rather hypocritical that our heteronormative, male-dominated society salivates over lesbian kisses and then moans that a kiss by two men is “shoving their lifestyle down our throats” or some other homophobic suggestive innuendo.
Still, let’s apply some objectivity, shall we? No need to invent things which aren’t there because there are plenty of negative things which actually do exist that are well worth opposing. â ~ DragonScorpion [a comment I made in regards to the claim that Adam Lambert was unfairly criticized by ABC for being a homosexual]
Yep, and that’s a fact, jack.
Typical. Blame ‘the gay’ for the factual hypocrisy that I pointed out. You wouldn’t want heterosexuals to get a bad rap, you’d rather blame ‘the gay’. This is why you have a reputation as being self-loathing, because you blame everything on homosexuals, ALL of us, and allow for zero accountability and zero criticism of the despicable behaviors and double-standards employed by heterosexuals.
You see, to the objective individual, like in all other instances, it is the homosexual’s fault when it is, and when it isn’t, then it isn’t. But you’re too consumed by anti-homosexual hatred to know the difference, and too eager to serve your homophobic masters to criticize their hypocrisies.
Meanwhile, as for my criticism, this is typical of it:
âThis article is completely misguided; yet another knee-jerk reaction because a homosexual was criticized and possibly censored for being over-the-top. There is nothing in Adam Lambert’s behavior to defend here. But in doing so, some voices in our community are playing right into the narrative that we are an oversexed, anything goes, radical minority which has zero respect for decency.â
âIt’s stunts like Mr. Lambert that continues to perpetuate stereotypes about us. And for what, because he can? Sure, that’s mature. Until we realize that this kind of stuff isn’t ‘just being like everyone else’, and link this to our argument that deep down we’re really just like everyone else, little is going to change. Fight, rant, scream, invoke bigotry and double-standards all you want â you’re just making a spectacle out of us and garnering more hostility that we’ll all pay for.â
âWe can’t control what Adam Lambert and Perez Hilton do, but we can choose whether or not we condone their behavior. Shall we take the high road and show the content of our character or shall we act like spoiled children in desperate need of recognition for our antics?”
âThis is what I’m concerned about. This is MY point which YOU missed and one that our community ignores at our peril. We will never earn legitimate respect if we’re not willing to call out impropriety, most especially that in our own community.â
âWe’re not all flamboyant fashionistas who are obsessed with sexual innuendo and can’t manage to carry on a conversation without double-entendre and camp. We’re a diverse lot, and we should be portrayed as such.
I think it does far more for our cause when average homosexuals just be our unfabulous selves, than it does to have a silly but lovable caricature on every TV channel. But then this doesn’t get headlines. Militant, cartoonish thugs like Perez Hilton makes headlines.â
âI can agree that Perez Hilton is a narcissistic douche-bag, yes, but Perez Hilton no more represents the gay community than Carrie Prejean represents Christendom.â
“I know where I stand, I will point out bigotry and hypocrisy when I see it, but I will not toe-the-line and cry foul every time someone from our community is criticized for outrageous behavior.â
And my blog post about the loaded questions by certain gay forums and their bogus defenses of indecency on TV
Ooh, look at that, I can criticize homosexuals and indecent behavior, and I do, regardless what the liar claims…
This is why you have a reputation as being self-loathing, because you blame everything on homosexuals, ALL of us, and allow for zero accountability and zero criticism of the despicable behaviors and double-standards employed by heterosexuals.
Did you miss this above?
So yes, it is safe to state that those things do not represent all heterosexuals, because heterosexuals are out there condemning, arresting, and convicting the heterosexuals who do those things. Furthermore, you don’t see heterosexuals in the street shrieking that such arrests and convictions are “homophobic”, or that those heterosexuals who object to the behavior are “neurotic” and “prudes”.
Meanwhile, I can show you innumerable similar condemnations of the behavior that takes place at “girls gone wild? Spring Break almost anywhere? Mardi Gras” by heterosexuals and heterosexual organizations, as well as arrests and convictions of heterosexuals for misbehavior during those events, and I heartily concur with both.
For some reason, I have no problem condemning bad behavior by either homosexuals or heterosexuals, even when it “gives ammunition” to bigots like yourself. The reason is that I am concerned about the behavior, not the PR; I don’t think it’s any better for homosexuals to rape and molest children than it is for heterosexuals. You clearly have a problem with that because, since your minority status is clearly the center core of your life, for you to criticize other gays would be akin to criticizing yourself.
Typical. Blame ‘the gay’ for the factual hypocrisy that I pointed out.
Let me see, what was that factual hypocrisy?
I agree that is rather hypocritical that our heteronormative, male-dominated society salivates over lesbian kisses
Right, which is why lesbians are screaming that they’re being discriminated against for kissing, or even better examples.
I think it’s funny how the natural defense of the gay community is to project its own obsession with hypersexuality, porn, and public promiscuity onto everyone else to make theirs appear normal. You’d think if they were truly “proud”, they wouldn’t be trying to whine that “everyone else does it” to explain their behavior. But that’s just it; the vast majority of gay and lesbian community members, in my opinion, are aware that the promiscuity and pedophilia they endorse and support aren’t a good idea, but they lack the emotional and intellectual strength to do anything but go along, given that they’ll be called “traitors” and told they want to eliminate all gays otherwise.
I don’t like anyone speaking against Adam Lambert or Perez Hilton. Lambert is the future, gay artists doing what straight artists do without shame. Where was the outcry when Madonna was going s/m and kissing Britney Spears on stage? If straights can do it, gays can do it. Straights don’t apologize for their sexuality, neither should we.
As for Perez Hilton, he’s just a successful gossip columnist. What’s wrong with that? Other than calling Prejean a cunt and referring to will.i.am as a fa–ot, he’s done nothing wrong.
You should see some of the nasty comments people leave of Perez website.
http://perezhilton.com/2010-01-01-malawis-first-gay-couple-wed-but-at-risk-of-imprisonment#respond
What people need to understand is that visionaries like Hilton and Lambert march to the beat of their own drums. I don’t remember Picasso painting what was popular or Mozart taking the King’s advice when it came to “too many notes.” And unlike that disgusting piece of shit Allen Ginsberg, neither of them are pro-pedophilia, so give them a freaking break.
Nope, and I didn’t miss all these examples of your blaming all homosexuals for what few examples of inappropriate behavior he could find
And my post following it, as well.
I thought Robert summed this up nicely, above:
âPeople probably are too busy being fucking offended that you’d ask them to apologize for people who are not them, or condemn the actions of another human being just because they have the same orientation they do.â ~ Robert
I suspect that the more you demand, the less you will get, if for no other reason our of sheer spite.
Arresting? Oddly enough, as I stated earlier, a lot of that isn’t being enforced stringently for most perpetrators. (be sure to check out the comments…)
Innumerable, even… In other words, mostly the (heterosexual) Christian religious organizations who are condemning us for merely existing. Whereas some of your average folks that might attend at a Mardis Gras-type event don’t seem to have a problem with all this nudity, etc. (see comments of link above) Yes, my, what a bold statement by the ‘heterosexual community’.
Except when you don’t bother to condemn them… Instead, nearly every post you make here is yet another indictment of the entire âgay communityâ and how we ALL either engage in or condone despicable behavior.
You see, unlike you, I’m not a bigot because, unlike you I don’t blame all heterosexuals for the actions of some. I don’t indict the entire heterosexual community because of rampant promiscuity which is so visible these days. I don’t demonize heterosexual people for adopting kids, in spite of the fact that some use them for sexual exploitation.
So, nice try, but you cannot legitimately accuse me of engaging in the sort of prejudiced, deliberate intellectual deception that you engage in.
Odd that you don’t show it. If true, then you should make this more clear instead of singling out homosexuals, which is what you’ve done in the entirety of the three separate debates we’ve had ad nauseam on the subject. And, no, I’m still not going to jump through hoops for you, so, tough luck, you’ll just have to wait until this subject comes up again when you’re not demanding everyone condemn homosexuality. Then, I think you’ll see the sort of criticism which you want to believe no one but you would ever have the ‘courage’ to display.
Oh sure, and that’s why I had no qualms about those criticisms I offered above at gay sites and mainstream sites… Try again, liar.
You read it when you responded to this, but yet you dishonestly act as though it doesn’t exist. Okay, since you want to be purposefully difficult about it, I’ll repost it, liar:
âI agree that is rather hypocritical that our heteronormative, male-dominated society salivates over lesbian kisses and then moans that a kiss by two men is “shoving their lifestyle down our throats” or some other homophobic suggestive innuendo.
Still, let’s apply some objectivity, shall we? No need to invent things which aren’t there because there are plenty of negative things which actually do exist that are well worth opposing. â ~ DragonScorpion [a comment I made in regards to the claim that Adam Lambert was unfairly criticized by ABC for being a homosexual]
Ah yes, that again. No, I think these are better examples: Girls gone wild
A rather comprehensive list of girl-on-girl in media.
Dude, where are the cops!?
Ah, but North Dallas Thirty has his blinders on, he sees nothing of the public nudity that heterosexual get away with, he sees nothing of the heteronormative, male-dominated culture in which many heterosexual males from adolescence on have a peculiar fascination with woman kissing and groping each other (as long as they’re not REALLY lesbians). He sees nothing of the double-standard in society that while girls kissing is often seen as “hot”, men kissing is usually portrayed as “gross”.
There’s that âgay communityâ again. See, this is why you are accurately described as a bigot. This is what bigots do, they resort to such utter logical fallacies of blaming ALL for the actions of some. For instance, few here display any sort of “obsession with hypersexuality”. But North Dallas Thirty is like a Rorschach test, show him a homosexual and he sees “hypersexuality”, “promiscuity”, and “pedophile”…
At least you are a little less declarative this time, and starting to admit that maybe, just maybe this caricature that you are attempting to create here on every thread doesn’t actually reflect ALL of us.
But, you’re still playing the victim, again. I think I can hear those violins now.
If you want to not be treated like a bigot, then stop acting like one. It’s really that simple. If you want to criticize promiscuity, indecency, and child abuse in society then do that. Criticize all of it. All examples. Don’t just pick and choose what few homosexual examples you’ve been able to find, repost it about 20 times, claim it’s some sort of epidemic and demand that everyone condemn it and explain why our entire community is so messed up.
Or, just troll for your gay-bashing elsewhere, no one here is biting.
I suspect that the more you demand, the less you will get, if for no other reason our of sheer spite.
No worries. That demonstrates the point nicely — that gays and lesbians are so infantile in their responses that they will refuse to condemn child molestation and exploitation out of sheer spite and a desire to defend and protect their fellow gay and lesbian pedophiles.
Which brings us to this.
If true, then you should make this more clear instead of singling out homosexuals, which is what you’ve done in the entirety of the three separate debates we’ve had ad nauseam on the subject.
Ah, but I have made it clear that I am concerned about the behavior, not the PR; I don’t think it’s any better for homosexuals to rape and molest children than it is for heterosexuals.
However, the difference is that there is no question in the heterosexual community that child molesters and rapists should be arrested, imprisoned, and publicly condemned. In the gay community, that isn’t done because gays a) don’t want to give ammunition to bigots, b) don’t want to have to criticize their fellow gays, and c) are simply spiteful individuals who would rather see children raped and molested than admit to any bad behaviors.
Next:
Oh sure, and that’s why I had no qualms about those criticisms I offered above at gay sites and mainstream sites.
Your “criticisms” that, as I pointed out, blamed heterosexuals for gay people acting like idiots and insisting that gay people aren’t really wrong, but that heterosexuals are hypocrites.
Case in point:
Ah, but North Dallas Thirty has his blinders on, he sees nothing of the public nudity that heterosexual get away with, he sees nothing of the heteronormative, male-dominated culture in which many heterosexual males from adolescence on have a peculiar fascination with woman kissing and groping each other (as long as they’re not REALLY lesbians).
Again, I think it’s funny how the natural defense of the gay community is to project its own obsession with hypersexuality, porn, and public promiscuity onto everyone else to make theirs appear normal.
And finally:
This is what bigots do, they resort to such utter logical fallacies of blaming ALL for the actions of some.
Except that, when the “all” endorse, support, and protect the actions of the “some”, it’s a fair cop to hold them responsible.
Put some effort into condemning gay pedophiles instead of making excuses for them and you might have a point. But until then, you’re just demonstrating once again that the PR for the gay community is more important than anything else.
As I’ve told you before, your guilt trips aren’t working. You can twist this however you want to serve your gay-hating agenda, but as you can see no one is buying it. No one here is accountable for what others do, and I have not yet seen anyone here defend child molestation or exploitation, least of all me. Your distortions to the contrary, are lies.
Furthermore, your insinuation that all âgays and lesbiansâ defend & protect pedophiles; and that all âgays and lesbiansâ are pedophiles just further reveals you for what you really are â a gay-hating troll who is attempting to portray homosexuality as inherently immoral, dysfunctional & an extreme danger to society.
Except that you point out no examples of child rape and molestation among heterosexuals. No links, no outrage, no sweeping generalizations about the ‘straight community’ engaging in or condoning child abuse, you make no mention of the fact that most sex abuse against children in this country are performed by what would otherwise be characterized as heterosexual persons. Instead, you focus solely on child abuse or neglect perpetrated or condoned by a few supposed homosexuals, and regurgitate the same old tired blog posts to support your twisted narrative. And worst of all, you then use the fact that some homosexuals engage in despicable behaviors to implicate the entire â not segments of, not ‘some’ â but the ENTIRE homosexual community.
And this, among other things, is why few here take you seriously. This is why few, if any, will ask ‘how high’ when you demand that we jump. I suspect that no one, other than Debrah, wants to feed your gay-bashing or your ego.
Oh really? Oh sure, and all these heterosexuals out there who are abusing these children really believe that they should be arrested, imprisoned, and publicly condemned for what they do… As do the lawyers who defend them, and the folks who think that a young boy who gets to lay his adult female teacher is âluckyâ… and… (read comments, seemingly posted by actual heterosexual human beings)
There’s that broad brush again: âthe gay communityâ, âgaysâ (read: all) don’t do this and don’t want to do that. Your ability to convey rationality and reason=fail; your ability to argue closed-minded bigotry=success.
Nope, wrong. My criticisms, unlike yours, are directed at THOSE who are at fault. The heterosexuals, the homosexuals, whomever. Read my posts again, note that my criticisms of the likes of Perez Hilton and Adam Lambert. No caveats. No exceptions. No excuses.
Ah, wrong again, liar. It is factually incorrect that the âgay communityâ âproject[s] its own obsession with hypersexuality, porn, and public promiscuityâ. What is factually accurate is that some homosexuals in the gay community have an obsession with hypersexuality, porn and public promiscuity; some homosexuals project these moral failings upon others.
Furthermore, I do not project the problems of those in the âgay communityâ onto others. I do not excuse the inappropriate or despicable behaviors exhibited by some homosexuals. I do not pass the blame of bad behaviors among certain homosexuals onto heterosexuals. Any claims you care to offer to the contrary is a lie.
What I do when I point out that hedonism is, in my opinion, all too common among many heterosexuals, or to point out the double-standard of what is deemed appropriate, is to put things into their proper perspective. A perspective you try so hard to avoid.
I believe that there is too much promiscuity in society, period. Sex, in my opinion, is treated too casually in heterosexual culture, homosexual culture, American culture, Western culture, period.
But, unlike you, I don’t have an anti-homosexual agenda. Unlike you, I don’t have to look for scapegoats nor rely on sweeping generalizations, nor implicate the innocent with the guilty, nor lump disparate groups of people into monoliths and demand that they, collectively, atone and condemn the transgressions of others.
And, as I have pointed out numerous times while you’ve tried so hard to dance around it and dishonestly twist it into what you want it to mean, there are many unfortunate double-standards in our heteronormative society, particularly in American culture, in which girl-on-girl kissing is often promoted as âevery man’s fantasyâ, while two men kissing is generally seen as âgrossâ and âshoving the gay lifestyle down the throatsâ of heterosexuals, particularly men who don’t think they should have to ever see it. This is in no way, shape or form an excuse for anyone behavior, it is, nonetheless, a fact of a double-standard that does exist.
There is one massive flaw in your rationalization: the âallâ, in your words âthe gay communityâ, does not endorse, support, and protect many of these actions which has been discussed to nauseating length. Already here we have seen multiple examples of others who have not endorsed, supported, nor protected these individuals and the behaviors they engage in. So, no, you have absolutely no legitimacy in holding those who do not engage in nor endorse child abuse as somehow responsible for child abuse.
I’ve made zero excuses for homosexual, heterosexual, or any other -sexual pedophiles. Period. You’re just a fucking liar.
As I told you so many posts ago, this has nothing to do with PR. You can make this BS claim all you want, you can guilt trip and lie and distort and pervert all you want, but it’s not going to work. You’re not going to get your way. I’m not jumping through your hoops, I’m not going to condemn despicable behaviors on command from the likes of a gay-hating bigot like yourself.
No links, no outrage, no sweeping generalizations about the ‘straight community’ engaging in or condoning child abuse
That’s because it’s pretty obvious that, when the straight community is having them arrested and imprisoned for doing it, that makes it patently obvious that the vast and overwhelming majority of straight people neither engage in or condone child abuse, and in fact are more than willing to criticize and punish other straight people for doing it.
Meanwhile, we have the leadership of gay rights organizations arguing that sex with children is “common” among gay and lesbian people, gay and lesbian psychiatrists stating that it is an “educational experience” to dress up children as sexual slaves and take them to sex fairs, and gay and lesbian researchers demanding that five-year-old children be taught the pleasures of gay sex.
The gay community’s response?
You’re not going to get your way. I’m not jumping through your hoops, I’m not going to condemn despicable behaviors on command from the likes of a gay-hating bigot like yourself.
How utterly convenient. All the gay and lesbian community has to do is claim that someone is a “bigot”, and they get out of criticizing free.
What I do when I point out that hedonism is, in my opinion, all too common among many heterosexuals, or to point out the double-standard of what is deemed appropriate, is to put things into their proper perspective.
Or, more precisely, you tear down heterosexuals to try to make a gay person’s inexcusable behavior more excusable.
If it is a question of principles, what a heterosexual does is irrelevant. But as you make clear, it is not a question of principles; it is a question of avoiding criticism of gay and lesbian people because of your need to protect your minority status as the only worthwhile thing about you.
Oh, “pretty obvious” is it? Obvious enough, for your satisfaction. So, no need to point out the fact that many heterosexuals are still doing these inappropriate or inexcusable things?
Apparently this is good enough for TD30: (to use your manner of sweeping language) Heterosexual judges are marrying heterosexual adults to children and the heterosexual judicial and penal systems are
letting child molesters off with a slap on the wrist.
And this: Heterosexual community makes joke of child molestation.
Nope, there’s that lie again. You’ve got one guy that no one has ever heard of from another country. You’ve got a sentence-long quote from a head-shrinker who, again, no one has ever heard of. And you’ve got your overactive imagination about teaching the pleasures of gay-sex to 5-year-olds. If it’s such an epidemic, then lets see the overwhelming evidence, liar. Next?
Yes, I speak for the entire homosexual community. We recently had elections, I won by a landslide. I’m so honored. And, by my decree, the ENTIRE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY, hereby rejects you and your delusions. [/sarcasm]
Only when it applies. And in this case it does. I decree it. ;D
Nope, it is precisely just what I wrote before:
âWhat I do when I point out that hedonism is, in my opinion, all too common among many heterosexuals, or to point out the double-standard of what is deemed appropriate, is to put things into their proper perspective. A perspective you try so hard to avoid.
I believe that there is too much promiscuity in society, period. Sex, in my opinion, is treated too casually in heterosexual culture, homosexual culture, American culture, Western culture, period.
But, unlike you, I don’t have an anti-homosexual agenda. Unlike you, I don’t have to look for scapegoats nor rely on sweeping generalizations, nor implicate the innocent with the guilty, nor lump disparate groups of people into monoliths and demand that they, collectively, atone and condemn the transgressions of others.â ~ DragonScorpion
If it were a question of principles with you, then you’d point out the child abuse, promiscuity, hedonism, hypersexuality, prevalence of porn, etc. that is increasingly common among heterosexual culture, homosexual culture, American culture, etc. But, you don’t.
You single out the entire homosexual community and paint ALL of us as being one giant monolith, engaging in, guilty of, condoning all the despicable/criminal behaviors in society. And you portray this in a context that WE are the only ones doing this stuff, getting away with it, and condoning it. Which is, as I think everyone has already determined by now, a LIE.
And all this is so that you can convey the typical homophobic propaganda ‘Big Lie’ that homosexuality is inherently dysfunctional; homosexuals are inherently dysfunctional and amoral; efforts to recognize homosexuals as first-class citizens is a ‘threat to civilization’. This is why you are branded a bigot. Your persistence, is why you are branded a troll.
Your serve.
So, no need to point out the fact that many heterosexuals are still doing these inappropriate or inexcusable things?
Point away. I will be more than happy to denounce and condemn their behavior.
You’ve got one guy that no one has ever heard of from another country.
Who is testifying in front of the Canadian Parliament.
You’ve got a sentence-long quote from a head-shrinker who, again, no one has ever heard of.
Google his name and professional credentials, and you might be surprised. I myself wasn’t aware how respected a psychiatrist who advocates sex fairs as education for toddlers could be.
And you’ve got your overactive imagination about teaching the pleasures of gay-sex to 5-year-olds.
Really, it doesn’t take that much imagination.
And that leads us to this:
And all this is so that you can convey the typical homophobic propaganda ‘Big Lie’ that homosexuality is inherently dysfunctional; homosexuals are inherently dysfunctional and amoral;
The interesting thing about this is that you don’t shriek about it being a “big lie” when Richard Hudler and other gay rights leaders are openly stating that sex with underage children is a right and that it is normal and common in the gay community, or when leading gay psychiatrists who regularly are leading seminars on gay family issues extol the virtues of sex fairs as educational experiences for toddlers, or when the gay community is using taxpayer dollars to force primary school classrooms to teach children the pleasures of gay sex.
In short, you only have problems with one group of people stating that homosexuality is inherently dysfunctional and amoral — those people who are quoting your fellow gays and lesbians saying it.
It is quite telling how you need people to point out hetero debauchery to you, but you take great pleasure in scouring the Net to find a few examples of despicable behavior among homosexuals. And only a few, which you keep posting over and over and over and over again as your flimsy case to indict the entire homosexual population.
No need to point out anything new, you can start with the stuff provided above. The Girls Gone Wild and related materials, the lack of citations for public indecency in St. Louis Mardi Gras events in spite of reports of plenty of it going on, the double-standards about girl-on-girl being common in media whilst man-on-man is nearly non-existent, the double-standard among many heterosexual men that when a boy sleeps with his female teacher he’s âluckyâ while a boy who has sex with a male teacher is a âvictimâ and the molester should be put under the jail, the light prosecutions of heterosexual pedophilia, particularly when women are involved.
You had every opportunity to launch into all these when provided before, but you chose not to. Instead, you just kept harping on the same old broken record â down with the gays. And attempting to distract everyone about some supposed endorsement on my part of despicable behaviors here, in spite of the fact that I’ve not done this even once.
Your lack of pointing our or condemning despicable behavior among heterosexuals, whilst focusing exclusively on homosexuals and demanding everyone join you on the gay-bashing is because you have a clear anti-homosexual agenda.
I’m not having a discussion with Richard Hudler about his warped ideas, I’m addressing the anti-homosexual propaganda that you display here. And it is interesting how you keep trying to distract from this.
~LMAO~ It is so hilarious how you literally repost the EXACT SAME LINKS to the SAME 3-4 sites. And these pitiful examples are your ENTIRE library of ‘evidence’ of the total dysfunction & debauchery of the homosexual population… You’ve been challenged countless times to provide more, but you can’t. You just repost the same old, same old…
Clearly the lesson to be learned here is that the Canadians hate their children and permit adults to have sex with them…
This guy is as much evidence of a general homosexual belief that sex with children is acceptable as Roman Polanski is evidence of a general heterosexual belief that sex with children is acceptable.
Ah, that’s because the âgay communityâ isn’t using taxpayer dollars to force primary school classrooms to teach children the pleasure of gay sex. That’s just another one of your lies. This group in U.K. doesn’t represent the U.K., they most certainly do not represent the United States, nor do they represent the homosexual community at large.
I’m not having a discussion with Richard Hudler about his warped ideas, I’m addressing the anti-homosexual propaganda that you display here.
Thank you for so perfectly demonstrating the problem in one sentence.
When Richard Hudler says this, you do nothing.
When I repeat what Richard Hudler himself said about gay and lesbian people, you scream that it’s “anti-homosexual propaganda”.
The gay community cannot handle the facts of what it supports and endorses being brought to light. Its only response is to attempt to shoot the messenger.
Again, the stupidity and infantile responses of the gay community are simply beyond belief. Hudler is clearly a danger to children. His organization clearly supports and endorses pedophile sex under the name of “gay rights”.
But does anyone care? Does anyone do anything? No. Instead, they attack the people who point out what Hudler is saying.
This is not the mark of an intelligent community. It is the mark of an insular cult who considers criticism betrayal and who insists that all their problems are due to their “enemies”.
Wholly incorrect. First of all I don’t recall screaming, but I know what such loaded language is meant to accomplish.
Second, pointing out that some homosexual â whoever he is, in whatever capacity he serves in whatever country â has advocated something dubious or even despicable is not âanti-homosexual propagandaâ. Not at all. And I’ve seen no one here suggest otherwise.
What qualifies as anti-homosexual propaganda are the attempts by you to use a few isolated incidents as proof that the ENTIRE âgay communityâ (direct quote) mocks marriage, dresses children like sex-slaves, has sex in public, and leads hedonistic, promiscuous lifestyles, etc. or that ALL same-sex couples adopt children to make sex slaves out of them.
This is precisely what you have done in countless posts here. They’re all here, they’re all obvious, unmistakable, and people here read them. And this is why most here completely reject you and your phony assessment of the ‘homosexual dysfunction’.
Your tactics do not in any way, shape, or form encourage accountability or foster responsibility among those in the community. But I don’t think you really want it to anyway. You simply want to demonize homosexuals.
You paint a very ugly picture of the homosexual community, but also a very inaccurate one.
Actually, YOU are beyond belief. While you are supposedly a homosexual, you offer more derisive scorn of the concept of homosexuals having rights, and offer more blanket indictments of the ENTIRE homosexual population than even the most acidic of homophobic heterosexuals I’ve encountered online.
You are also probably the best example I’ve ever seen online of the deliberately dishonest blogger. Every time someone clearly defines for you what their stance is, or what their problem with your method of supposedly ‘holding the gay community accountable’ (or whatever it is you think you are doing and failing at abysmally), you deliberately ignore most of what they say, twist the rest, and simply concoct your own conclusions to fit the narrative which is your permanent agenda.
You come to these forums with the dogmatic belief that the entire homosexual community is promiscuous, hedonistic, oversexed, amoral. And you make your arguments from this point of view, as if it is a fact. Your proof of this is a mere handful of links which you ALWAYS provide in every thread, multiple times a thread, ad nauseam.
This, coupled with your incessant use of derisive scare quotes, juvenile labels, and insulting dismissals of both the efforts and the concept of homosexuals having things like equal protection and civil rights, manages to set most here firmly opposed to the specious case you are trying to build.
But this, too, is all part of your little scheme. Because you also come to these forums with the belief that when you offer your âhard truthsâ that the entire homosexual population, certainly everyone here, is going to attack you for it. And if the first post by you doesn’t elicit sufficient scorn for you to play the victim-card with, you just start heaping on more broadly sweeping generalizations, blanket condemnations, and BS assumptions about all those who don’t jump on your ‘hate the gays’ bandwagon.
Most despicable of all, perhaps, is that this is all deliberate by you. It isn’t mere stubbornness on your part. I think you have such a need to be right about this belief of yours that you will accept no argument to the contrary, you will accept no evidence to the contrary, no amount of logic or reason. You will offer no condemnation of bad behaviors in general, only that displayed by homosexuals. And you balk at any attempt by others to show the context (not a defense of, rather, proper perspective) that these egregious behaviors are NOT exclusive to us. You offer up the ready-made dismissal which you came into this thread with: ‘the gay community would rather attack critics than condemn child molestation’. It is exactly what you are hoping for, and you ensure that you will push everyone’s buttons to make it (appear) so.
And thus, in your mind anyway, you have proven what you set out to do all along with your first post â that the entire homosexual population is hypocritical, immature, irrational, immoral, hedonistic, hypersexualized, grossly dysfunctional and a threat to civilization.
This is all what makes you so clearly a bigot. And a troll. And why no one outside of the man-hating Debrah seems to want anything to do with you. But by all means, carry on. I’ll run circles with you until they close the forum down.
you offer more derisive scorn of the concept of homosexuals having rights
Probably because the leaders of those organizations devoted to “rights” are out promoting, pushing, and demanding pedophilia.
Raising the age of consent is a veiled attempt to assert conservative moral values on youth, queer and youth-led groups told Senators today……
The proposed changes will have a disproportionate impact on gays, said Richard Hudler of the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights in Ontario.
Next:
What qualifies as anti-homosexual propaganda are the attempts by you to use a few isolated incidents as proof that the ENTIRE âgay communityâ (direct quote) mocks marriage, dresses children like sex-slaves, has sex in public, and leads hedonistic, promiscuous lifestyles, etc. or that ALL same-sex couples adopt children to make sex slaves out of them.
And again, the quote:
“My first lover was 17 years older than me. And this is common [among gay people],” he said.
Or:
Father of two, John Kruse said it is an educational experience for children. He said there were conservative parents against having kids at the event.
“Those are the same close-minded people who think we shouldn’t have children to begin with,” he said.
Again, your gay and lesbian community leaders are the ones stating that gay and lesbian “rights” include the right to pedophile sex with underage children, that it is common for gays to have sex with underage children and that laws that forbid it discriminate a disproportionate amount against gays and lesbians, and that anyone who does not support gays and lesbians dressing children as sex slaves and taking them to sex fairs is “close-minded”. Why aren’t you venting your spleen on them? Why are you blaming heterosexuals for simply repeating what your community leadership is saying about gays and lesbians, completely unchallenged?
The funny thing about this is how blatant the hypocrisy of the gay and lesbian community is. Gays and lesbians like you are so touchy that you scream “n****r” at people because other people who share their skin color voted for Proposition 8, but when your fellow gays and lesbians openly demand the removal of age of consent laws because they violate “gay rights”, crickets.
The latter defames the gay community far more, but again, the need to protect the minority status — especially since it’s been drilled into your head that that is the only thing that makes you worthwhile as a human being — takes precedence. Blame black people. Blame heterosexuals. Blame conservatives. Blame religious people. But never, never, NEVER under any circumstances are you to criticize the bad behavior of another gay person, because that makes you self-loathing. It’s always someone else’s fault.
And that’s what makes this really funny:
Your tactics do not in any way, shape, or form encourage accountability or foster responsibility among those in the community.
Please. Accountability and responsibility are anathema to the gay and lesbian community. You are talking about people who blame the pharmaceutical companies because their ads “force” poor defenseless gay people to have promiscuous sex.
The gay community exists as a means to perpetuate infantile behavior, irresponsibility, destructive attitudes, and victimhood among gay and lesbian people. As I stated before, it is an insular cult who considers criticism betrayal and who insists that all their problems are due to their “enemies”.
Wow, it took you two days to repost the same shit you’ve been reposting the past month…
Your excuse for offering more derisive scorn of the concept of homosexuals having rights than even the most acidic of homophobic heterosexuals I’ve ever encountered online is:
âProbably because the leaders of those organizations devoted to “rights” are out promoting, pushing, and demanding pedophilia.â ~ North Dallas Thirty
This is a pathetic copout as well as a lie. The fact that a few people in the homosexual community have advocated despicable things is in no way the basis of your scorn of homosexuals having rights. You propagate direct and blunt arguments against recognizing the rights of homosexuals in any way, shape or form. Even attempting to use legal arguments to refute recognizing any equality for homosexuals and same-sex couples. It’s all based on your homophobia, Christian dogmatic beliefs, and socially conservative ideology. It has nothing, NOTHING to do with what some homosexual guy or gal said in the U.K.
It’s so pathetic how you hide behind a random remark here or there like a coward because you don’t have the stones to step up and admit why you find homosexuality and homosexuals such an abomination to nature and threat to humanity.
Been there, done that. Yawn. Dig up something new, troll.
Yep, seen that one before several dozen times now, too. And just like the previous several dozen, it doesn’t prove in any way, shape, or form that the ENTIRE âgay communityâ (direct quote) mocks marriage, dresses children like sex-slaves, has sex in public, and leads hedonistic, promiscuous lifestyles, etc. or that ALL same-sex couples adopt children to make sex slaves out of them. Try again, troll.
Again, to correct your LIE. In actuality, you have cited examples where a few members of homosexual advocacy organizations have been nonchalant about pederasty. This in no way, shape, or form de-legitimizes the argument of advancing equality and civil rights protections for homosexuals and same-sex couples. This in no way shape or form establishes the entire homosexual population as pedophiles or advocates of pedophilia. Try again, troll.
Yawn. Been there done that. He’s a moron. No one here agrees with him. Move on, troll.
Because they aren’t here. You are, gay-hater.
I’m not, liar. Other than you, a gay-hating troll heterosexual posing as a homosexual, I’m not blaming anyone for citing despicable behavior, I’m blaming YOU for indicting the entire homosexual population as being pedophiles, hedonists, hypocrites, thugs and criminals because of the actions of a few.
By the way, I challenged you to âpoint out the fact that many heterosexuals are still doing these inappropriate or inexcusable things â, now perform just like you expect me to. You said, âPoint away.â Well, I pointed away. You ignored it. Get to it, troll. Live up to your words, liar.
Wrong, liar! I don’t scream n*gg*r at people because other people who share their skin color voted for Proposition 8. STOP LYING, TROLL! Can’t you manage one goddamn honest reply even once? No, of course not…
You don’t know a goddamn thing about what I feel makes me worthwhile as a human being you self-righteous scumbag, so file your assumptions away where the sun doesn’t shine.
TRY AGAIN, LIAR! It’s all at my blog and at various forums including this one. Condemnations of Adam Lambert, Perez Hilton and those who defend them. Condemnations of promiscuity and mocking monogamy.
Regardless what you want to believe, regardless how you twist it and put people in your little gay-hating box, the REALITY is that where I stand is people are accountable for their own actions. All of them. Yesterday, today, and for always.
And that includes holding gay-hating religious homophobic conservative fascists like yourself accountable for your words. And as long as I am around, you will never, NEVER live this trash of yours down.
The homosexual population is not a monolith, homophobe. If we are beyond accountability, then you are wasting yours and everyone else’s time. You obviously believe we are all beyond taking accountability, even though most of us take as much accountability as any heterosexual person does. You’ve already made your bullshit case. We’re a lost cause. Dregs of humanity.
If you really, actually wanted to correct bad behaviors among the homosexual community you’d use a method that encourages this. You would use a strategy that works. Yours fails, COMPLETELY. Miserably. Your gay-hating rhetoric and sweeping generalizations and flagrant insults pits nearly everyone here against you. And your argumentation is so dishonest that it makes everyone reject even legitimate complaints. So, congratulations, as any gay-hater would want, whatever problems the homosexual community might have, you are contributing to perpetuating them. I, on the other hand, am going to continue addressing them without crucifying the entire homosexual orientation in the process. But as long as you’re spewing your homophobic lies here, I’ll stand toe to toe with you. We can just keep wasting our time going in circles. I will never let your garbage stand unchallenged.
Like I said, you’re a heterosexual, a troll, and a homophobe. And this little rant of yours, on top of everything else, proves it. Disgusting.
The homosexual population is not a monolith, homophobe. If we are beyond accountability, then you are wasting yours and everyone else’s time.
Not really.
The problem with the gay community is best summed up using Booker T. Washington’s classic quote about the black community.
There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.
I have never been convinced, as is dogma in the gay community, that being homosexual requires you to be anything. But it certainly has provided a convenient excuse for you and millions of others like you to explain away everything from pedophilia through bad job performance and laziness on the job to pure antireligious bigotry as excuses for why you can’t get a job, can’t stop yourself from dressing your child as a sex slave, troll outside elementary schools for dates, spew racist remarks at black people, and so forth.
It’s all about the grievance-mongering and victimhood. Without your minority status, you’d have to compete with everyone else, and that scares the hell out of you — not to mention, you might actually have to look at your own behavior as the reason you have problems in life, which could shake your worldview to its core. Much better to remain in a state of blaming everyone else and “homophobia” for your failures.
I look at the obvious; the gay community endorsed and supported NAMBLA whole-heartedly until the fact that they did had consequences, at which point even their supporters turned on them.
Similarly, sanity will not predominate in the gay community until that class of those who insist on perpetual victimhood and use such to advance whatever ludicrous causes they wish under the name of “gay rights” are publicly called out, humiliated, and shamed — instead of the current state, where THEY are trying to call out, humiliate, and shame anyone who disagrees with them.
Typical hypocrisy from you. In one post you condemn the ENTIRE homosexual population as being pro-pedo, in the next post you accuse them/us of ‘turning on pedophiles’.
Actually, what I am pointing out is that NAMBLA never changed their arguments. You and the rest of the gay community simply went from supporting them, including them in parades, and praising them to suddenly discovering what awful people they were when it cost you something.
The lesson there is that the gay and lesbian community can learn to avoid bad behavior — with a hard enough push.
And this was particularly interesting:
You’re clearly a grossly dysfunctional person who is so filled with hatred and revulsion for homosexuality that it makes you feel better about yourself, and perhaps better about some of your own desires bubbling beneath the surface which conflict so bluntly with your theological delusions, to insult those who don’t carry around the same shame as you.
Actually, I don’t have any shame, for one simple reason; people always know where I stand, and I don’t see any reason to protect gays and lesbians who engage in shameful behavior, or support the community that rewards them for doing it.
I figure your accusation of “shame” is more revealing of you than it is of me.
Another lie. I haven’t offered any support of NAMBLA once in any of these discussions and yet I (and everyone else here and every other homosexual that IS part of the âgay communityâ) is implicated in supporting them. You’re literally a pathological liar.
It is certainly telling that while you blame all of us for supporting NAMBLA, because some homosexual advocacy group did so at one time, the same group offering a pointed criticism of NAMBLA (which you provided) doesn’t suffice for you to then give the âgay communityâ a reprieve or even an ounce of credit. Nope, because you’re only here to blame all of us for the worst examples among us; your agenda is to only depict homosexuals as the scum of the Earth.
By the way, I see your âpushingâ here is âpushingâ most to ignore you, condemn you, and refuse to play along with your homophobic rants… But just keep pushing, I’m sure you can convince us to start hating ourselves, and each other.
CLEARLY!! That is probably the first (and last) bit of honesty that I’ve seen from you yet. Yes, you have no shame because you obviously have no conscience.
It’s pretty obvious where you stand, though you’re too chicken shit to admit you share the theological view that ‘marriage should be between a man and woman only’.
Correction, you don’t see any reason to protect, nor even offer a shred of respect or human dignity to any homosexual â as displayed on countless posts of yours in many different threads now. You don’t merely criticize bad behavior, you criticize ALL homosexuals, everywhere, for everything.
In once sense, as it proves I have a conscience and you don’t. If I were you I’d be ashamed to blame so many people for the actions of others which they had NO involvement with and ZERO control over. You, however, find it perfectly normal, rational, logical, and fair to lump the entire homosexual population together and hold ALL of us accountable for the actions of some bad apples. That is rather revealing indeed, I don’t treat people as monoliths worthy of complete scorn, you do.
Ahh, I see it is working again! Must have been a glitch before. Good, now I’ll post my responses to your previous posts as I was forced to do in the other forum:
Hmmm… Odd to see a post here. Yesterday I couldn’t post in this thread… Let’s try again.
Uhh, yeah, really. You’re not achieving any change here. Do you see anyone here, outside of your fag-hag sockpuppet, supporting your garbage? Nope. So, yeah, waste of time.
First of all, I have a good, full-time job, so you can cram your assumptions â sideways. And my lack of being religious and refusing to conform to religious demands doesn’t make me an “anti-religious bigot”, so your distortion further illustrates how dishonest you are.
Furthermore, I don’t explain-away pedophilia, so, that’s just another lie. I don’t dress my child or any child as a sex-slave, another craven lie on your part. I don’t troll outside elementary schools for dates, yet another despicable lie from your pathological self. I don’t spew racist remarks at black people, or anyone else, and so forth. Yet more LIES from you. And all the more reason why no one, NO ONE here should believe a WORD you say about ANYTHING.
I do compete with everyone else, liar, and my homosexuality plays no role in it. I don’t wear my orientation on my sleeve, and where I live being a homosexual works against a person, never for them. In spite of this, I have a house, a good paying job with excellent benefits. My sexuality didn’t get that job for me. It hasn’t kept me that job. My homosexuality didn’t get me an education.
And as for failures, you see, again, you don’t know a goddamn thing about me. You have no idea how successful I am. You have no idea what I’ve achieved in my life. You just assume, more than that, you literally just make shit up.
You’re clearly a grossly dysfunctional person who is so filled with hatred and revulsion for homosexuality that it makes you feel better about yourself, and perhaps better about some of your own desires bubbling beneath the surface which conflict so bluntly with your theological delusions, to insult those who don’t carry around the same shame as you.
And comparing yourself to Booker T. Washington!? As if you are some kind of a hero that has done something for your own people. What have you even begun to do for the homosexual community? You talk a lot of trash. You make a pretty good argument why we should all be institutionalized (if your lies and generalities were to be believed, that is). But you don’t contribute anything positive. You don’t encourage any change for the better, foster accountability or responsibility among the community. You don’t donate effort to help advance legal equality for homosexuals, as Booker T. Washington did for blacks. To the contrary, you vehemently argue against equality right here almost every day… Your gall is beyond belief.
Hero? In reality, you are a sad, warped, horrible, horrible liar. And hopelessly delusional.
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