Of all the slogans chanted and displayed at anti-Israel rallies over the past month, surely "Queers for Palestine" ranks as the most oxymoronic. It is the motto of the San Francisco-based Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism (QUIT), a group advocating financial divestment from the Jewish State. QUIT contends that Zionism is racism, regularly demonstrates at gay pride marches, organizes with far-right Muslim organizations, and successfully lobbied the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission to boycott the 2006 World Pride Conference due to its location that year in Jerusalem.
What makes QUIT oxymoronic is that their affinity for Palestine isn't reciprocated. There may be queers for Palestine, but Palestine certainly isn't for queers, either in the livable or empathetic sense. Like all Islamic polities, the Palestinian Authority systematically harasses gay people. Under the cloak of rooting out Israeli "collaborators," P.A. officials extort, imprison, and torture gays. But Palestinian oppression of homosexuality isn't merely a matter of state policy, it's one firmly rooted in Palestinian society, where hatred of gays surpasses even that of Jews. Last October, a gay Palestinian man with an Israeli lover petitioned Israel's high court of justice for asylum, claiming that his family threatened to kill him if he did not "reform." He's one of the few lucky Palestinians to be able to challenge his plight.
And that"s only in the relatively benign West Bank. The Gaza Strip, which has stagnated under the heel of Hamas"s Islamofascist rule since 2007, is an even more dangerous place for gays, 'a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick,' in the words of a senior Hamas leader. As in Iran, Hamas"s patron and the chief sponsor of international terrorism, even the mere suspicion of homosexuality will get one killed in Gaza, being hurled from the roof of a tall building the method of choice.
It's these facts that make the notion of "Queers for Palestine" so bizarre. Contrary to what some gay activists might have you believe, there really are not that many political subjects where one's sexuality ought influence an opinion. Aside from the obvious issues related to civic equality (recognition of partnerships, open service in the military, etc.), how does homosexuality imply a particular viewpoint on complicated matters like Social Security Reform, health care policy, or the war in Iraq?
The answer, at least for some of those on the left side of the spectrum, is one found in the early rhetoric of the Gay Liberation Front, the leading gay rights organization to emerge after the Stonewall riots. The GLF was, in the words of historian Paul Berman, the "gay wing of the revolutionary alliance" that in the 1970s challenged the liberal consensus and came to be known as the "New Left."
GLF leaders, for instance, played an instrumental role in the creation of the Venceremos Brigade, which dispatched starry-eyed American radicals to pick sugar cane in Cuba as a show of solidarity with the regime of Fidel Castro. (Like the Palestinian Authority, Communist Cuba didn't exactly return the kindness of its gay sympathizers; for decades it interned gays and HIV-positive individuals in prison labor camps). The GLF allied itself with a whole host of radical organizations (like the murderous Black Panthers) whose role in the struggle for gay equality was tenuous at best. And the very name of the GLF was adopted from the National Liberation Front, the moniker of the Vietnamese Communists.
Why does this history matter now? Although you will find few out-and-out Marxists in the leadership of gay organizations today, most gay activists still view the world with the same sort of "oppression" complex epitomized by the early radicals who led the GLF. They believe gay people to be "oppressed," and hold that any other group claiming the same victim status should earn the support of gays.
It's for this reason that every major gay organization was so hesitant to talk about the overwhelming support among African-Americans to ban gay marriage in California, and why the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force went so far as to commission a bogus study ostensibly refuting that disturbing statistic itself. In the estimation of the gay rights establishment, African-Americans, like gays, are "oppressed," and there is no room for enemies on the left.
But gays will never get anywhere as long as they view the world in this constrictive and counterproductive way. Indeed, if one wanted to construe a "gay" position on the Arab-Israeli conflict - that is, examine the issue purely through the prism of the welfare of gay people - the inescapable stance is nothing less than partiality for Israel. Israel, after all, is the only state in the Middle East that legally enshrines the rights of gay people. Gays serve openly in the military and occupy high-profile positions in business and public life, and Tel Aviv is an international gay mecca. As cliched as it may sound, Israel is an oasis of liberal tolerance in a reactionary religious backwater, and if gay people want to stand with the "oppressed" of the region, it is the Palestinians seeking a peaceful, two-state solution, not the murderers of Hamas or their backers in Tehran, who merit support.
None of this is to say that gay people are wrong for sympathizing with the downtrodden and genuinely oppressed; on the contrary, it's an admirable quality. But all too often, ideologues with ulterior motives and radical agendas pervert this worthy instinct.
It's one thing to express concern about the humanitarian conditions in the Palestinian territories. But to stand alongside the enthusiasts of religious fascism isn't "progressive." It's obscene.
35 Comments for “Queers for Palestine?”
posted by TS on
Weird times, Mr. Kirchick. Weird times.
posted by EssEm on
Unless I missed it, where are the cries about “self-loathing” homos? It seems that all you have to do is express some sympathy with Republicans and that mantra comes flying out, but when homos support ideologies and regimes that are not merely unsupportive of gays but lethal….Crickets chirping.
posted by Amicus on
OMG, JK and I both find something weird.
Btw, JK, if you are going to profile a group, you might say how many people are in it.
Here is a picture that shows 20-30 people on a street corner …:
http://bashbacknews.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/sf-queers-undermining-israeli-terrorism-quit/
Despite their title, do your research interviews with their members suggest a heavy left-queer ideological linkage, or are these people just ‘anti-Israel’ folks, living in the same area (?), who happened to be queer and decided, because it was comfortable for them socially and geographically, to band together, rather than join a non-gay led group?
Above all, are there other choices than being “pro-Israel” OR “anti-Israel”?
Last, what is QUIT’s self-loathing position on repealing the Bush-era tax-cuts? (okay, that was supposed to be a bit of hilarious levity … I mean, there is a larger truth to the world than that it is fashioned by ideologies, Left or Right).
posted by David on
Left Wing dogma, as is most, is rooted in psychology–abnormal psychology, that is. People in the West have it so good, many have to pretend as if they can identify more with Palestinians than Jews in Israel in order to feel less guilty about their prosperity. As you see, most western Palestinian supporters are trust fund brat whose papas’ are paying for their college eduations. Although Israelis more reflect who they are in. they cling to the notion they “one with Palestine” to remove the rich white guilt complex that they suffer from.
posted by Bobby on
I invite the Queers for Palestine to visit Palestine. Gaza or the West Bank, take your pick. Please go there, have a gay pride parade. Hamas can always use the target practice.
“Above all, are there other choices than being “pro-Israel” OR “anti-Israel”?”
—Yes, pro-freedom and democracy in the middle east.
anti-freedom and democracy in the middle east.
In the entire middle east, only Israel has freedom and democracy. Every other country there persecutes gays, even Turkey!
Why not Queers for Queer Palestinians? Where’s the gay organization fighting for them?
posted by Pat on
I invite the Queers for Palestine to visit Palestine. Gaza or the West Bank, take your pick. Please go there, have a gay pride parade. Hamas can always use the target practice.
Good one, Bobby!
In the entire middle east, only Israel has freedom and democracy. Every other country there persecutes gays, even Turkey!
Yeah, I don’t get it. Openly gay Palestinians are treated WAY better by Israel, than by Hamas. Heck, any Palestinian is treated way better by Israel, than by Hamas.
If Syria didn’t have a strong hold on Lebanon, then Lebanon would also have a decent level of freedom and democracy, and gay persons could be fairly open, at least in Beirut.
Two of my great-grandparents were Christian Syrians, but were persecuted by the Turks, and came here about 100 years ago. It’s shameful that a country which is part of my heritage is such a sh&t country.
posted by Bobby on
“Yeah, I don’t get it. Openly gay Palestinians are treated WAY better by Israel, than by Hamas. Heck, any Palestinian is treated way better by Israel, than by Hamas.”
—Sometimes people are blinded by ideology. I once dated a gay member of MCC, he could not admit that minorities can be racist too. Queers for Palestine are more interested in getting along with their leftwing friends than in antagonizing them.
“If Syria didn’t have a strong hold on Lebanon, then Lebanon would also have a decent level of freedom and democracy, and gay persons could be fairly open, at least in Beirut.”
—That’s very true.
“Two of my great-grandparents were Christian Syrians, but were persecuted by the Turks, and came here about 100 years ago. It’s shameful that a country which is part of my heritage is such a sh&t country.”
—I know the feeling. Islamic countries often discriminate against non-Muslims. But if you say that, they accuse you of Islamophobia.
posted by BJ Murphy on
I support the Palestinians 100 percent, because HUMAN RIGHTS supersede gay rights. These people are oppressed. There are settlers, some American, grabbing their land, demolishing their homes, every week of the year in the name of religious fanaticism. When someone doesn’t speak up when more than 800 civilians are killed, that is wrong. when you bomb a densely populated area, that is wrong! Where’s the criticism of US. made weapons being used in Gaza? These are the things we should be discussing. So what if Israel has a gay culture. It hardly makes them morally superior.
posted by Bobby on
Hey BJ, was Gaza NOT RETURNED to the Palestinian authority? Did Israel NOT REMOVE their settlers from Gaza?
As for human rights superceding gay rights, what about the human rights of gays in Palestine? Israel’s gay culture makes them morally superior. The worse they ever face is disapproval from a few religious fanatics. And since those religious fanatics live in their own neighborhoods, isolated from normal people, they’re not much of a bother. In Palestine, you face torture by the police and prison if you’re gay. That is if your family doesn’t kill you first. Google “honor killing” and you’ll see how “innocent” those palestineans and other arabs are.
Seriously, those 800 civilians would have no problem killing your gay ass. When 9/11 happened, palestineans where CELEBRATING. When Saddam Hussein was bombing Israel, Palestineans CELEBRATED. And when Palestineans raise their children to be suicide bombers, celebrate after they die and protect HAMAS terrorists in their homes… Well, they deserved to be bombed.
Bombing densely populated areas is justified. America did it in Afghanistan and Iraq trying to get Bin Ladden and other terrorists. Welcome to modern warmfare, the days of fighting in the middle of nowhere are long gone.
posted by Mike Emmet on
The Palestinians (the civilians, kids and women) are in danger because their nieghbour who stoled their land 60 years ago are brain-dead dangerous. They kill 400 children in 3 weeks as a revenge for the killing of two little girl by a rocket. Queer for Palestine are so right : our solidarity must be with those who suffer from terrorism by Israel and it is not a question here of accepting homosexuality or not. It is a question of humanity. When a state uses terrorism (killing 600 civilians in 3 weeks) to fight terrorism (2 little girls killed), like more and more people on the planet Queer for Palestine knows who are the real terrorists.
posted by Bobby on
“The Palestinians (the civilians, kids and women) are in danger because their nieghbour who stoled their land 60 years ago are brain-dead dangerous.”
—Who stole what? Abraham took the land, then Moses, then there where 10 jewish tribes, then King David founded Jerusalem, then the Alexander the Great conquered, he was defeated, then the Babylonians, they where eventually defeated, then the Romans, then the British (who called it “palestine”) and then back to the original owners after the british decided they no longer wanted it. Simple as that.
“They kill 400 children in 3 weeks as a revenge for the killing of two little girl by a rocket.”
—And how many Afghani children died after 9/11? If Afghanistan had given us Bin Ladden, the war could have been avoided, but when you protect terrorists, you get what you deserve, even if it means the deaths of civilians.
“our solidarity must be with those who suffer from terrorism by Israel and it is not a question here of accepting homosexuality or not. It is a question of humanity.”
—First of all, it was more than two little girls that got killed. Secondly, Israel waited MONTHS to retaliate. Thirdly, go to Palestine and try being openly gay there, let’s see how well they accept your humanity.
It’s too bad HAMAS isn’t launching rockets into the Castro, maybe then you Queers for Palestine would really get it! It’s obvious some Americans are spoiled, you’ve forgatten 9/11, you’ve forgotten the meaning of fear.
You’re like the feminists that tell women not to resist the men who rape them. To just lie there and let him finish the job, and then call the police. Well, some countries don’t want to be raped.
posted by Pat on
Mike Emmet, why is Hamas firing hundreds of rockets annually at all into Israel? Why do they continue deny Israel’s right to exist, and further, call for their destruction? In fact, why support an organization who believes at least half of their citizenry have as much rights as a rock? And openly gay citizens have less rights than a rock?
I’m not saying Israel is 100% perfect here. But they’ve demonstrated time and again that they are willing to peacefully coexist with their neighbors. Hamas has not. And while I abhor innocent lives being lost, this is on Hamas. They continue to show that hating Israel is more important than the safety of their citizens. That’s the tragedy here. Heck, they issued death threats against a newswoman who didn’t wear a burka or whatever. Isn’t that nice?
posted by Roy A. Burt on
“I’m not saying Israel is 100% perfect here. But they’ve demonstrated time and again that they are willing to peacefully coexist with their neighbors.”
Oh Really? Give me a break! What about all the invasions of Lebanon? What about them forcing Palestinians to live in refugee camp conditions for over 40 years?
The writer of this article is feeding on racism and Arab bashing!!!
posted by Bobby on
“Oh Really? Give me a break! What about all the invasions of Lebanon?”
—And what did Lebanon do when Hamas was launching rockets from there? I tell you what, NOTHING! People like that deserve to be invaded.
“What about them forcing Palestinians to live in refugee camp conditions for over 40 years?”
—What about all the arab countries that won’t let them emigrate but would rather keep them as refuges? When these people stop blowing themselves up, they’ll have better living conditions. I don’t know any other race in the world that commits suicide bombings. Too bad they don’t blow themselves up in DC, New York, San Francisco, Americans like you need to experience Palestinian hospitality.
“The writer of this article is feeding on racism and Arab bashing!!!”
—Poor, poor arabs, they’re beyond reproach, nobody would dare criticize them lest risk being called an islamophobe. Arabs are such lovers of freedom, that’s why Salman Rushdie has to spend the rest of his life in hiding. And they love free speech, specially cartoons. And they love women’s rights, as long as they don’t drive cars, aren’t lesbians, and get to the chapel with their hymens intact.
You know so little about Islam/arab culture, maybe you went to an arab restaurant and had a good meal. But if you had to live in an arab country and submit to all their laws and traditions, you couldn’t take it.
And neither can Israel!
posted by Pat on
Oh Really? Give me a break! What about all the invasions of Lebanon?
I don’t know. You’ll have to ask Syria why they do that, assassinate their leaders, and continue to fund a terrorist group inside their borders.
The writer of this article is feeding on racism and Arab bashing!!!
I didn’t see that. The author is criticizing where criticism is due. Where is the author inaccurate about what he stated? In fact, he mentioned sympathy for the oppressed and downtrodden. But where is most of the oppression for Palestinians coming from? Not Israel. Is it Israel’s fault that a Palestinian newswoman received death threats for not wearing a burka? Or that Rushdie has to hide for the rest of his life?
I have no problem with an Arab or Muslim who wants to live peacefully. Heck, I’m part Arab descent myself. And the Muslims I know are fine as well. So I don’t prejudge individuals. But that doesn’t change the fact of what’s going on in the Middle East. My great-grandparents left because they were oppressed by Muslims and Islamic law. Unfortunately, a hundred years later, things haven’t changed except I could live freely and openly gay in Israel.
posted by Tonio on
And nobody here has touched on the holocaust denial, and pro-holocaust cheerleading, which you find among arabs in general, and particularly among palestinians.
Which is not to stick up for the israelis, either. The israeli hardcore religious are as fervently anti-gay as any iranian mullah or southern baptist preacher, and the more rational israeli’s give the ultra-religious far too much deference.
“None of the above” is the correct answer. Not our problem. Call us when it’s over.
posted by Bobby on
“The israeli hardcore religious are as fervently anti-gay as any iranian mullah or southern baptist preacher, and the more rational israeli’s give the ultra-religious far too much deference.”
—True, but they don’t control the supreme court, or any court, they don’t control the media, they can’t stop gay pride parades or all the rights gays enjoy in Israel. They’re almost like the amish, weird and with little impact. As long as you don’t go into their neighborhoods, they live you alone.
posted by Bobby on
Hey Roy, here’s a little muslim tolerance towards religious minorities.
Egyptian Christians Sent to Prison after Brutal Police Raid
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11598866/
The reason for the raid? The Coptic Christians where not observing ramadam in their own private business! So in Egypt, if you’re not a muslim, you better pretend to be one!
And they call Israel a fascist state, seriously.
posted by David Skidmore on
Gay Palestinians clearly have two enemies – Islamic fundamentalists and Zionist terrorists (in the form of the Israeli armed forces). The latter is not concerned whether Palestinians are gay, straight, religious or non-religious. Israel’s armed forces never ask those questions. They are paid to kill.
Hamas’ anti-gay politics is well-known so the author told me nothing new. But did the author offer a solution? No. Here’s an attempt at one: revolutionary upheaval similar to what we have seen in Eastern Europe in the late 1980s and 1990s that will destroy all the regimes in the area that privilege one religion or another. That is, the end to all authoritarian, racist and pseudo-democratic regimes in the Middle-East (which, of course, covers them all).
Only once the board is swept (as it were) can we really begin a genuine peace process.
posted by Pat on
The latter is not concerned whether Palestinians are gay, straight, religious or non-religious.
What’s worse is neither is the former. Hatred of Israel is more important than the rights of their own citizens.
David, I’ll agree that having a secular state is better than one that favors one religion. But do you honestly think that if Palestine was willing to live peacefully with Israel, and didn’t fire any rockets into Israel, as opposed to 600 per year, and ended the suicide bombings, etc., that Israel would continue to attack Gaza? In fact, Gaza still lets rockets slip into Israel territory, and Israel has held back so far.
Further, if the Muslim countries near Israel tolerated their own Jewish citizenry even one-tenth as well as Israel tolerates their Muslim citizenry, we probably would have peace in the Middle East.
posted by David Skidmore on
Israel only tolerates non-Jews as citizens (within limits) as long as they are in the minority. When Israel directly occupied the West Bank and Gaza after 1967, Palestinians living in those areas were not given the vote and had minimal, if any, human rights. The current Palestinian Authority is actually little different to the Zionist regime it has succeeded in those areas.
If Israel now is a great place for Palestinians as well as Jews to live, there should be no problem with more Palestinians being able to find refuge in Israel proper. If Israel doesn’t discriminate between Jews and non-Jews then it doesn’t matter if non-Jews comprise over 50 percent of the population of Israel. After all, America welcomes both Jews and non-Jews. Why can’t Israel do the same?
We know why Iran or Saudi Arabia doesn’t. They are totalitarian regimes – the latter unapologetically so. But Israel is supposedly democratic. Ethnicity shouldn’t matter in terms of immigration policy.
posted by Bobby on
“. When Israel directly occupied the West Bank and Gaza after 1967, Palestinians living in those areas were not given the vote and had minimal, if any, human rights”
—And who occupied the west bank after 1948? Jordan. And who started the war in ’67? Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebannon. But I guess mentioning that isn’t convenient. No, big bad Israel had to fight 5 countries at once.
“If Israel now is a great place for Palestinians as well as Jews to live, there should be no problem with more Palestinians being able to find refuge in Israel proper.”
—The Palestinians don’t want to live in Israel. The Israeli arabs do, and they have full equality, even representation by their arabs in the Knesset.
“America welcomes both Jews and non-Jews. Why can’t Israel do the same?”
—Because America wasn’t founded as a jewish state. Germany doesn’t welcome non-germans, you might get a greencard but it’s really hard to become a citizen. America limits legal immigration through hard to get greencards, H1B visas, quotas and other methods. Israel is a jewish state. The jews need a jewish state because the world is anti-semitic.
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/5462_13.htm
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304654441&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304685408&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
When people like David refer to your people as a Zionist terrorists, you know you better have a state to back you up!
So you can bet your ass that Israel will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to survive.
posted by David Skidmore on
Israel is partly to blame for this recent mess in two ways. First of all, it resourced Hamas in order to undermine Arafat’s Fatah organisation. More recently, it has nurtured Fatah under Abbas which has made many Palestinians see Abbas as an Israeli stooge (and so they elected Hamas as the government in Gaza). Gay rights, of course, being irrelevant to the Zionist regime.
Interestingly, the rights of Jews are also ignored by Zionist terrorists. Israel has sold arms to anti-semitic, military-backed regimes such as in Chile and Argentina during the 1970s and early 80s. The arms for hostages scandal in the 1980s saw Israel doing weapons deals with Iran.
Yes, Israel will do whatever it takes to survive be it bludging off the US taxpayer, selling weapons to murderous juntas or making deals with other terrorists.
posted by Bobby on
You’re wrong, David. Israel warned the Palestinians not to vote for Hamas, not to elect a terrorist organization. As for Israel selling arms to Chile and Argentina, that’s just business. No different than America buying oil from Saudi Arabia, a country that’s a polar opposite of everything America stands for.
As for the US Taxpayer, well, the US Taxpayer already supports NATO, Egypt, Africa (billions go there in the form of charity), and many other foreign causes. That’s the price you get when you want to be a leader of the world. And that price is cheap compared to the cost of the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, and Obama’s stimulus package.
And let’s not forget that what America gets from Israel. Do you like your cell phone? Without Israel, you’d still be dealing with landlines. Check the link and see for yourself.
http://www.factsandlogic.org/outstanding_accomp.html
posted by David Skidmore on
My mobile phone is actually a Finnish brand and I use a service provider that originates from the UK. All my other points stand. Except to say that the US Government gets Israel to test sophisticated weaponry on live human beings. I left that one out.
One of the author’s points was that you have these American gays show solidarity with “Queer” Palestinians and yet Palestine is not reciprocating. Palestine, if you mean the current government, is obviously anti-gay. But there are gay Palestinians who live daily with the possibility of death from either Hamas or Zionist invaders. I mean, would the author not care about gay Cubans simply because of Cuba’s homophobic government or Cubans’ machismo? What about gays in Iran as we’re discussing the Middle-East?
It is possible to support the rights general population (including gays) from outside oppression without supporting oppressive local governments. The author is not sophisticated enough to see this.
posted by Bobby on
“My mobile phone is actually a Finnish brand and I use a service provider that originates from the UK.”
—My point is that the Israelis invented the technology that makes cellphones possible. It doesn’t matter if your cellphone is german or dutch or greek, without a certain technology, it will not work.
“Except to say that the US Government gets Israel to test sophisticated weaponry on live human beings. I left that one out.”
—Please, Israel creates a lot of their own technology, such as the Uzi, which is far superior than the M16. As for live human beings, I’ll give you the quote from the marines. “Only God can judge terrorists. We’ll help arrange that meeting.”
“But there are gay Palestinians who live daily with the possibility of death from either Hamas or Zionist invaders”
—I’m sure the gay Palestinians would prefer to deal with “Zionist invaders” rather than their own people. In fact, some gay Israelis have gay Palestinian boyfriends.
“It is possible to support the rights general population (including gays) from outside oppression without supporting oppressive local governments. The author is not sophisticated enough to see this.”
—Not really, gays have no human rights in the arab world. If you want to help gay arabs, you have to fight against arab culture. Otherwise you’re supporting the people that will kill you later.
posted by David Skidmore on
One of Israel’s constant whinges is that it wants it’s existence recognised. Where? How do you give a country recognition when its government will not define its own borders?
As for recognition as a Jewish state, then forget it. A Jewish state has is as repugnant as a Catholic state or an Islamic state. If Israel has to recognised as a Jewish state then why not recognise Iran as an Islamic state? No can do.
And as I said, It is possible to support the rights general population (including gays) from outside oppression without supporting oppressive local governments – for example, Cuba. The author [and his supporters are] not sophisticated enough to see this.
posted by Bobby on
“If Israel has to recognised as a Jewish state then why not recognise Iran as an Islamic state?”
—Iran IS recognized as an Islamic state. The entire world except for America trades with Iran, and the only reason America boycotts them is because they Iranians invaded the US embassy and sponsor terrorism.
You think a Jewish state is repugnant? What about all those countries where Catholicism is the official state religion? What about the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, that’s right, that’s their official name, and it is an Islamic kingdom with a religious police and everything.
What about the Vatican? That is a CATHOLIC state, it is recognized by the world. Even the US Army wasn’t able to invade the Vatican Embassy in Panama to capture Noriega.
Israel was happy with the 1948 borders, but it was the arabs who declared war on her and she had to fight back. If your neighbor is constantly attacking you, you’re gonna want to create a buffer zone. It’s their own damn fault! They’re (the arabs) the ones who break every peace agreement, they’re the ones who accept a truce only to rearm and strike again.
If Israel was a fascist state, my comrades wouldn’t have killed 1,300. They would have killed 1,300,000, or 3 million. You don’t know the meaning of bombing civilians, what Israel did was calculated strikes against terrorists. If Israel had used Hitler’s methods such as blitzkriegs, firebombs, mass executions, gas chambers, there wouldn’t be a Palestinian problem.
But as always, Israel is way too nice and way too careful. You remember Vietnam? How many Vietnamese did the US killed? 1 million. Israel’s “atrocities” don’t even come close. How dare you condemn Israel when your own army doped napalm? Just like America can do whatever it wants to win, so can Israel!
Maybe Obama thinks he can keep America safe without Guantanamo, waterboarding, rendition, and all those tactics that worked and has kept us safe from another 9/11. Israel can’t afford to make that mistake, and if you ask me, neither can America.
posted by David Skidmore on
I’ve already made it clear that I regard all religious-based states as repugnant – as I do ethnic-based states. Do you understand?
posted by Bobby on
“I’ve already made it clear that I regard all religious-based states as repugnant – as I do ethnic-based states. Do you understand?”
—Well, when Hitler was persecuting the jews, the world closed its doors with immigration quotas, including America. Even today, if there was no Israel and jews are being persecuted in Venezuela or some other godawful country, it wouldn’t be easy for them to immigrate somewhere else.
Israel has to give preference to the jews because no other country in the world will. And the find that you find that repugnant, shocks me. You remind me of Hugo Chavez, you preach tolerance but support measures that promote intolerance, you talk about peace but support the enemy, you preach compassion for one group of civilians but don’t care when another group of civilians dies because of suicide bombers or rocket attacks.
You need to stop visiting Al Jazera and start reading jerusalempost.com if you REALLY want to know what’s going on.
posted by Sharon Kass on
1. Concerning your article on the NAACP–they have been hospitable to the ex-gay movement and have allowed PFOX to distribute literature at one of their events.
2. Concerning your article in the current ADVOCATE: Obama can’t give gays equality–no one can. Homosexuality and transgenderism are psychological disorders that are preventable and treatable. They spring from faulty bonding and identification with the same-sex parent, starting in early life. See http://www.narth.com, http://www.gaytostraight.org, http://www.peoplecanchange.com, and http://www.pfox.org.
The truth will out.
posted by Bobby on
Sure Sharon, that’s why Ted Haggard apologized to the gay community on Nightline, that’s why even he admits he struggles with same-sex attraction. The truth is you wouldn’t let your daughter marry one of those so-called ex-gays.
As for faulty bonding with a same-sex parent, there are millions of straight males that either had no father, or didn’t got along with their fathers. In fact, over 70% of African-American homes are raised by single-mothers, so according to your theories, all the boys from those homes should be gay, which isn’t the case at all.
If some gays want to pretend to be straight just so they can have their precious little weddings, fine. The men looking for men section of craiglist is full of “straight” men, married men, men with girlfriends.
If heterosexuality is so natural, if heterosexual marriage is the ideal, then why would Ted Haggard need to hire a very sexy male prostitute? Why coudln’t he enjoy having sex with his wife? I’ll tell you why, it’s because with the prostitute he didn’t have to struggle, with the prostitute, he didn’t have to try hard to enjoy himself.
And that’s why ex-gays have it so hard, because instead of following their nature they go against it. Instead of doing what feels good, they do what feels bad, disgusting, uncomfortable. To use a metaphor, being a vegetarian when you HATE vegetables is not very satisfying.
posted by Tonio on
Bobby, Both Al Jazeera and Jerusalem Post are equally biased. Fail.
Also, just because an Israeli invented the cell phone, it doesn’t follow that without that invention by that person at that time that we’d all still be using landlines. Someone else would have invented this probably sooner than later, as this was not a great leap forward (like telephony or radio), this was an incremental invention based on existing robust technologies. D-
Again, as Americans, this is not our fight, not our problem, and neither side really does anything for America or for the cause of international gay rights.
You, Sir, are a partisan fanatic. Please, if you’re so enamored of Israel, renounce your US citezenship and move there. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
posted by Bobby on
Tonio, if it wasn’t for Israel, Iraq would have used nuclear weapons on Kuwait and later on, US troops. It was Israel who destroyed Saddam’s nuclear reactor.
“Again, as Americans, this is not our fight, not our problem, and neither side really does anything for America or for the cause of international gay rights.”
—Bullshit, America LOVES getting involved in foreign affairs. Grenada, Korea, Panama, Kuwait, Yugoslavia and who knows how many secret CIA operations. While the europeans sit drinking their wine, it’s the Americans that do the heavy lifting. Even your boy Obama wants to increase troop numbers in Afghanistan. And you thought he was for peace? Yeah, right.
America also LOVES loyal countries that will do her bidding, share intelligence, give them technology and buy their products to the exclusion of all others.
Of course, you’d probably like America to get involved with some little shitty country like Sudan. What will they sell you? Sand? Dirt? Starvation?
Typical example of progressive logic, help those that can’t help themselves. Just like Billy Clinton did with Aristide in Haiti. Aristide was a despot, but Billy sent the troops to put him back in power. And now Haiti is worse than we it was before and we have hundreds of Haitian refugees coming to our shores. Thanks Billy Clinton! That’s what happens when you try to work and get a blow job at the same time.
Enjoy having the democrats in power while it lasts, because it won’t last long. If your boy in the white house doesn’t fix the economy, it will be his ass that gets hit on the way out. Go back to the huffington post, Ariana could use some cunnilingus.
posted by mamayoquero on
When people say refugee camps… do you realize that they are actually towns? Here’s a pic of Jenin “refugee camp” from a Palestinian rights activist http://www.sue.be/pal/pics/Jenin%20refugee%20camp%20at%20dusk.jpg (you can view her site).
You say Israel keeps Palestinian Arabs in refugee camps? You got to be kidding. For many years now 98% of Palestinian Arabs live under the Palestinian Authority. They could have started building more cities and moving out of refugee camps since Oslo II agreement.